Is mana even a resource?

Tilomentry··3 votes·1,055 views

As time goes on, more and more champions come out without mana, and sometimes with another "resource" instead (though sometimes its just a glorified CD Shyvana ). The thing is, I don't think this is a bad idea because so few champions have ever really needed to manage their mana beyond "Do I have enough mana to use my combo right now?". Right now mana seems to be nothing more than a way to control a champion's power curve throughout the game. Early game you are restricted by your low mana pool and/or high mana costs that prevents you from spamming your abilities. Eventually though, as time goes on, eventually you will get to a point where your abilities have almost insignificant costs because either your abilities cost next to nothing, or your natural mana bar has gotten big enough naturally or from some item that your abilities barely dent it. Either way, the only reason you will ever run out of mana is because you haven't gone back to base in a while and probably should have to buy more items.

In comparison, some of the newer resource systems require actual management (for optimal play at least) and have much more interesting tactical decision making involved. Lets take Gnar Gnar for example. Here is champion who has a fury system wherein if it maxes out, he transforms and gets a different skill set and different stats. This creates an interesting dynamic because now the player controlling Gnar needs to be aware of how much time in combat he spends in order to control whether he stays in mobile ranged mode or go into tanky CC mode. When he gets close and is about to transform, both the Gnar player and his opponent have to pay attention to when that moment will occur and what to do with it. Should the Gnar go all in? Should the opponent back off preemptively and wait for the transformation to run out? Should the opponent try to keep Gnar in combat and force the transformation? There's actual game play there and both players (and then later on both teams) need to manage Gnar's fury resource. Mana simply doesn't do the same thing

Now I'm not saying we should just remove mana outright. I think there could be some real potential to having a universal resource that functions differently with each champion. For example, what if marksmen used "ammo" instead of mana, and each "bullet" was equivalent to X amount of mana. When they use abilities, it costs some number of bullets to use them but then every marksmen could also get a bullet back for each minion they kill.

Or in a case by case scenario, a champ like Kass Kassadin could have a charge bar that filled up when abilities were used around him (with maybe increasing effect when used by other champions instead of himself) and that charge bar could determine how far he could jump with his ult.

Would it be worth it? Are there any champions that could put a cool twist on this?

(Also do note that I'm talking more game play and less game balance)

11 Comments

J Epstein2 votes

I feel we need a secondary bar. For the first bar, all champions either need to use either a mana or energy system for abiltities. You can't expect champions to never run out or expend some sort of energy. Mana doesn't necessarily need to be tied directly to magic.

Then the secondary bar would manage "special" case champions like Gnar 's rage or Tryndamere 's rage or Shyvana fury.. etc. This would limit those champions from spamming abilities without concern.

Tilomentry3 votes

This is the opposite of what I was getting at. You shouldn't think about "how realistic is it that champions never get tired" and think more like "What would be fun?". Being able to use abilities without being shackled is fun. Champions should be less shackled by mana. Mana should be more rewarding for proper management and less punishing for improper management.

Sightless661 votes

Mana should be more rewarding for proper management and less punishing for improper management.

I'm not certain this is possible. The only reward possible is "you get to keep casting spells", while the punishment is "after x amount of spamming, you can't cast anymore". Making it more rewarding isn't really possible. Punishment for spamming is the primary goal of a mana system, so I think that the only thing that can be tuned is how quickly it punishes you.

Tilomentry1 votes

Well I did provide some examples as to how mana management could be more interesting and rewarding but the short version is that mana would have to become some that isn't just "spend X amount of resource to use ability Y" (at least not solely that)

LuluInWonderland1 votes

Actually, I've been seeing a lot of mana issues since preseason started. Heavy ability-oriented users (name, sona, ahri, ori, lulu, etc.) need to buy 2 mana items to be able to not have to worry about mana mid and late game. It may not sound like much since it's just 1 item, but you give up a lot by having to by a mana item instead of a damage or defensive item.

I agree that there is an issue with too many champs that have resource-less kits. They do lose a lot of power by building cooldown to "spam" abilities, but 15-25% CDR is still gold-efficient for them and doesn't give up that much power.

Tilomentry1 votes

{quoted} Actually, I've been seeing a lot of mana issues since preseason started. Heavy ability-oriented users [name, sona, ahri, ori, lulu, etc.] need to buy 2 mana items to be able to not have to worry about mana mid and late game.

This is part of the point I'm making. Champions are restricted early game from using their abilities until they reach a certain point in the game and then they don't have to ever worry about mana. This makes mana less of a resource to manage and more of a gate holding champions back until they reach their "strong point" in the game

Tannhäuser Gate1 votes

How about we let stashu rework all mana using champs so they have curves we don't like nor want in exchange for getting rid of the mana gate

Tilomentry1 votes

Your personal grudge against a single Rioter isn't really productive to the discussion. We're trying to talk about interesting ways to better mana as a mechanic in the game, not how to create balance and power curves. The only thing I've said on that topic is that mana's current purpose only serves that function

LuluInWonderland1 votes

I understand the mana gating early and completely agree with you there. However, I think you misunderstood my point on itemization to counter it. Any champ can bypass the mana gates and reach a point where they don't have to worry about mana by mid or late game. However, there is a meaningful tradeoff for doing so - in terms of a drop in damage or utility compared to getting other items. With the new season's changes, too many champs have to heavily itemize for mana/regen in order to be useful outside the base for a reasonable amount of time. The tradeoff is they could go more damage or defensive instead of mana in the previous season. The champs most heavily affected by this change either have to very closely monitor their mana usage or give up some form of fighting power in mid and late game.

I'm not against having champs have to choose between fighting power and the ability to spam their skills, but as it stands now it feels like a flat nerf to a large number of mages & supports without any compensation to improve their strengths (which is Riot's kick right now).

Centuros1 votes

I liked how Dawngate did it: resources were the exception, rather than the rule, and very few used anything like mana (one had a resource that was basically fast-recharge mana that I never managed to run out of, and two had a resource bar that filled on its own, but also filled on auto attacks, so I never ran out as long as I could hit something). Some of their alternate resources included health, a Renekton-esque fury mechanic, a bar that was essentially an ammo system for a spammable skillshot (on a champ that, oddly enough, had a separate ammo system for a different skill), and one bar that was just a duration gauge for a toggle (it would refill nearly instantly after the toggle was off for a second or two). At least half of the shapers were limited only by cooldowns, though.

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

Someone gets it.

Someone understands that Mana is a gating resource rather than "magical reserves."

In response to your question; yes, Mana is a resource. Mana, Energy and Heat are the current restrictive forms of resources. They limit the power output of a champion in different ways. Mana, as you said, is designed to hold back the champion in the early game, but not constrict them late-game. Energy is not quite the opposite, but it's designed to be easy on the early game laning phase. It allows them to poke without worrying about resources, but it makes them consider very carefully what they plan to do in a team fight. 10 Energy per second regeneration is fast, but not fast enough when spells cost 30, 50, 70 or 100 Energy at a time. Heat is kind of like an inverse Energy system with some special things thrown in.

Fury, Flow and ammo counters (i.e. Corki's R, Vel'koz W) are semi-restrictive resources. Rather than directly holding back the champion's kit, they have an effect on how the champ functions. On, say, Renekton, Fury doesn't really restrict anything, it just buffs his kit; on Shyvana, it's effectively her ultimate's CD. For Flow, Yasuo's entire kit doesn't do anything with Flow, except for his self-shield. Ammo counters are effectively a CD that can stack on itself, allowing someone to store extra shots for a fight instead of one cast per X seconds (yeah, there's still an internal cooldown as well, but it's significantly shorter).

If we need to have special resources for future champions, we can make them. Mana serves its purpose well enough, as do Energy, Fury and pure CDs.

More from Gameplay

More by Tilomentry