@Meddler /Riot let's talk about zyra.

ImNotOriginal7·Aug 3, 2015·5 votes·978 views

First of all: this is NOT a "buff zyra thread",this thread is hopefully about understanding where zyra stands as part of the game in general,and to a lesser extent in the current meta.

So anyway,zyra is currently the 11th least played champion,and compared to supports(Which I'm guessing that's what she is right now? considering her recommended itemization) 2th least played(above zilean and below taric,taric also having a higher winrate,for whatever that's worth),and has been more or less in the same spot for more than a year,with very little talk about her,or changes to her.

Continuing on that point,if you look at other low pickrate champions,the vast majority of them have some obvious issues,taric has an outdated model and a boring kit,urgot,poppy and yorick have been claimed by riot to have big gameplay issues(and riot have stated they have reworks incoming),for most of the champions there it is somewhat understandable why they are there,or there has been work to try to move them out of there.

So basically the point I'm trying to get to is that it's not too clear why zyra is there: Do you perceive her kit as toxic? Do you think her model/kit outdated? Do you perceive her kit as boring/binary? Do you think she needs a major rework?

These are generally the reasons why other champions sit on low pickrates,presumably there are other options I'm not aware of,but well,I'm not aware of them.

Tl;dr I think we could use some clarification on what riot thinks of zyra as a champion,and on her problems if they think she has any.

14 Comments

BârdAug 3, 20153 votes

Zyra doesnt need many changes.

Higher movespeed.
A way to control her plants.
Buffs to her passive.
A reason to use vine lashers over thorn spitters (10% bonus damage? Another couple hit points?)

ImNotOriginal7Aug 3, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=The True Bard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AEq3F3BO,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-08-03T21:18:15.498+0000)

Zyra doesnt need many changes.

Higher movespeed.

A way to control her plants.

Buffs to her passive.

A reason to use vine lashers over thorn spitters (10% bonus damage? Another couple hit points?)

I don't exactly agree or disagree,but this isn't the point of the thread.

Think about it this way: If riot thought zyra needs buffs,why hasn't she received any yet?

I mean she has been in this state for about two years now,and I think most people would agree her pickrate isn't in a good spot,which implies she needs some sort of changes(buffs/rework/VU/VO/whatever),but she hasn't recieved anything and the lack of riot talk about her implies she's not even on the radar,which raises the question why is that so,do they have some problem with her that the playerbase is unaware of? if so a red response about it seems appropriate.

VDc0zCqe0wAug 4, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Think about it this way: If riot thought zyra needs buffs,why hasn't she received any yet?

because they don't give a fuck?

what kind of question is this lol, she may get changes soon tho since the guy commented about her passive and such

Sona is in the same spot but they don't care either

ImNotOriginal7Aug 4, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Puffball Reborn,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AEq3F3BO,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-04T00:17:31.779+0000)

because they don't give a fuck?

Yes riot plays favorites(I bet they are looking to compensate ahri for something as we speak),but zyra has been in that spot for a very long time,long enough that it is unusual even for their attitude of playing favorites,think about it,support/adc are roles which desperately lack variety,which ends up with them tending to get more attention than most roles,I mean since season 4 started,EVERY SINGLE SUPPORT EXCEPT ZYRA(almost most or all adcs) got some balance changes(yes,nerfs if you are too dominant count as well),this is clearly strange,even taric got buffs to his heal mana costs.

what kind of question is this lol, she may get changes soon tho since the guy commented about her passive and such

I don't know,he could've said they are looking to buff/change zyra,instead he just said they will consider this particular passive(which imo is just dumb and won't go through)

Sona is in the same spot but they don't care either

It's true that sona is in a somewhat of a similar spot,but there are two meaningful differences:

she's not in this spot for nearly as long as zyra.
It can be argued that her rework caused some issues with her q(used to prioritize champions at 550,now does so at max range),which kind of lacks counterplay at the moment(It's targeted,has solid range,and doesn't root her in place),I have no clue why they changed it.

Also,what happened to old puffball?

VDc0zCqe0wAug 4, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Yes riot plays favorites(I bet they are looking to compensate ahri for something as we speak),but zyra has been in that spot for a very long time,long enough that it is unusual even for their attitude of playing favorites,think about it,support/adc are roles which desperately lack variety,which ends up with them tending to get more attention than most roles,I mean since season 4 started,EVERY SINGLE SUPPORT EXCEPT ZYRA(almost most or all adcs) got some balance changes(yes,nerfs if you are too dominant count as well),this is clearly strange,even taric got buffs to his heal mana costs.

i think they will just flat out rework her into a 100% pet-based midlaner and they consider her support role as an annoyance so they won't buff her for that reason, i mean there is really no reason for this kind of behaviour since champs like Ashe or MF have constantly been getting small updates over time

{quoted} Also,what happened to old puffball?

changed nick 2 times, i already own all the heroes i like to play so w/e

i mean i don't give 2 fucks about this situation anymore, i just switched to ADC since playing support is just boring in S4-S5, the few times i do that i just grab Janna and get my freewin (not that i don't like playing her, she's still my favourite hero since always), or i just go Soraka, she's relaxing

are you manbearswine?

ImNotOriginal7Aug 4, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Puffball Reborn,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AEq3F3BO,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-04T01:01:52.718+0000)

i think they will just flat out rework her into a 100% pet-based midlaner and they consider her support role as an annoyance so they won't buff her for that reason, i mean there is really no reason for this kind of behaviour since champs like Ashe or MF have constantly been getting small updates over time

This sort of makes sense,but then why change her recommended itemization? Why make bot zyra(as in co-op vs bots) play support? Not to mention according to champion.gg,she is still played more as a support(about 3 times as much),so it will be a very questionable move,but at least then there would be method to the madness,which is what this thread is about.

P.S it is implied that zyra doesn't have any upcoming reworks here: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/EFq6ZdTj-jaredan-about-zyra

changed nick 2 times, i already own all the heroes i like to play so w/e

i mean i don't give 2 fucks about this situation anymore, i just switched to ADC since playing support is just boring in S4-S5, the few times i do that i just grab Janna and get my freewin (not that i don't like playing her, she's still my favourite hero since always), or i just go Soraka, she's relaxing

Well,I generally play lulu now,hyper mobile shitheads gave me cancer,so I gave up trying to play skillshot based champions,but I don't play too much anyway.

are you manbearswine?

Yes,eune normal draft times are a massive pain.

mikesommsAug 4, 20151 votes

A reason to use vine lashers over thorn spitters (10% bonus damage? Another couple hit points?)

Seed + Q has longer range than Seed + E, but does not slow.

Seed + Q allows for gap closers, as the combined Range of the cast and of the plant is around 900-1000 units..

If that counts, theres a reason. Its depends on the positioning/status. i.e. Slows for Full combo/escapes Extra Range for chasing/Poking

These stats are live *****

BârdAug 4, 20151 votes

Those are reasons to use the thorn spitters over vine lashers.

The only thing that vine lashers have is a minuscule slow.

Honestly, as a zyra player, the only time I use them is when I dont have the mana for Q.

mikesommsAug 4, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=The True Bard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AEq3F3BO,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2015-08-04T02:33:08.284+0000)

Those are reasons to use the thorn spitters over vine lashers.

The only thing that vine lashers have is a minuscule slow.

Honestly, as a zyra player, the only time I use them is when I dont have the mana for Q.

The reasons I listed are live, if that wasn't clarified.

BârdAug 4, 20151 votes

Yes... I know...

Just fyi vine lashers= melee plant thorn spitters= ranged plant

Seed+Q spawns a thorn spitter.

Both reasons given were supporting the ranged plants

A Miss FortuneAug 4, 20151 votes

I feel like by buffing her reliability, like, the ability for her to actually hit her stuff, she would be significantly better in lane. But there's literally no reason for you to be hit by her Q or E unless you're standing still, or she's playing Melee Zyra.

BârdAug 4, 20151 votes

The ranges on her Q and E are actually pretty big.

A common tactic is to throw out a W-Q-W directly below them as they pause movement to CS.

Also, what are you talking about playing Melee Zyra? You mean if you are playing Melee against Zyra?

SaiannaAug 4, 20152 votes

Wild Meddler appears Player uses Zyra thread

Not every effective

Meddler runs away

Jokes aside, I like playing Zyra, I know she isn't the strongest pick and is super weak against beefy champions, but still i enjoy playing her. When she was relased as "thorn queen" I was like 101% certain one of her abilities or passive will have some kind of thornmail. Even though her current passive is "OK'ish" i still think thornmail-like passive would be bit more in place. After all, thorns can really hurt.

I'd suggest giving her thornmail passive that works on her plants, scalling with level (so early game damage wouldn't be too serious). Then fix AI on plants, make melee plant alot different than ranged one and buff it. Cause melee plant should deal more damage.

Got no ideas about her R. Imo it's kinda weird thematically.

YurugoAug 4, 20151 votes

you just gave me an idea. what if, lets say, a lush of thorns grew around zyra and her plants. around her - size more or less anivia ult and it would take 5-10 seconds to spread to the full size and stays there for 4-5 seconds but resets on that specific area that zyra comes back into range with it (think something like firetrail shyv leaves in dragon form but resetable). around her plants it would take be a lot smaller but faster grow. her ult would spread the lush in its radius instantly. now what is the meaning of this? a - enemy champions and summons take 5% of their current health as magic dmg every second for 3 seconds (damage ticks being every half a second). if target stays on thorn lush for total of 5-6 seconds thorns cut him 150/200/250 true damage. cannot apply dot or true damage effects on the same target for 20/18/15 seconds after they stepped out of the lush (no matter if they been there only for 0.00000001 of the second). this would make zyra into absolute control freak mage that would require very careful positioning to get the enemy into this trap. idk just a random thought