Is Garen seriously the tankiest champion in the game?

Fadedpf·Aug 25, 2015·28 votes·5,410 views

I remember when or where considered the tankiest champions in the game. But they have been hit a ton with the nerf bat, with nerfs to their kits making them not even tanky and nerfs to every possible tank item. Tanks feel like a joke when Garen, Skarner and Darius are ahead. They can just chunk the tanks health while taking no damage at all. Garen is just ridiculous. Opressive against melee champions with his Silence all you can do is right click away because you are going to take his combo anyway. All of his free armor and mr just allows him to buy and be unkillable. Rest in pepperonis tanks because Juggernauts beat them not only by soaking more damage but dealing insane amounts of damage. Tanks have been massively over nerfed, I seriously don't know what to say if these armor nerfs stay. Assassins and Juggernauts are the only things being played with of course a Sated jungler.

56 Comments

Hullabaloo907Aug 26, 201526 votes

Garen was always extremely tanky. He just could never really do much with all that tankiness until now.

FatalitýAug 26, 20159 votes

Wouldn't Alistar be the tankiest

FadedpfAug 26, 20154 votes

In his temporary ult yes. But that is a massive amount of damage mitigation. Not much tankiness to Alistar unless he is ahead. His HP stat is very high and primarily wants more HP to soak more when using ult. Not your typical tank. And especially not unkillable like Garen.

SteelflameAug 26, 20153 votes

Actually doesn't matter what defensive stat he builds for his ult. It will have the same overall EHP increase. HP just makes it more generalist against phy/magic, while armor/MR are more potent for specializing. Health does help resist the true damage that does cut through his ult though, I'll give you that.

XonraAug 26, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Im ChaIIenger,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AEGEWkVo,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-08-26T00:05:24.050+0000)

Wouldn't be the tankiest

Only while his ult is up. Even then it is a toss up depending on items.

Meep ManAug 26, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Im ChaIIenger,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AEGEWkVo,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-08-26T00:05:24.050+0000)

Wouldn't be the tankiest

Im pretty sure he is during his ultimate. For majority of the time, Rammus is actually the tankiest character in the game simply due to how he builds and his W.

iltAug 26, 20155 votes

yeah that's why I'm perma banning his bitch ass

NarasimhaAug 26, 20154 votes

Opressive against melee champions with his Silence all you can do is right click away because you are going to take his combo anyway.

And this is different than before how....?

Hell, he's WEAKER than before in this regard. His silence lasts much shorter, and he lost his free tenacity and bonus stats which added up to be much more.

plantersAug 26, 20151 votes

garen is in no way weaker. His currrent E procs twice as much at max ranks which means you stack BC faster and his ult gives you true damage on 1 target. Yeah his Q is not as good but a 1.5 second silence is still pretty oppressive. With the amount of damage he has, he can shut down most assassins and rivens with it.

NarasimhaAug 26, 20151 votes

So he does more damage, but is also less tanky for it. That's... entirely fair. He's ALWAYS shut down Rivens though.

plantersAug 26, 20151 votes

yeah he still needs nerfs though. supposedly top tier players are currently putting him in their top5 champions for this patch right now. I feel he needs, more than anything, a limit on his true damage. 1k+ true damage is beyond OP.

A Pig that flysAug 26, 20153 votes

Actually, fun fact, Nunu has been the tankiest champ in the game for a long time, and unless something major changed in the last few months, he still is, having the highest level 18 health stat of all the champs. Again, correct me if I'm wrong or if something's changed, but Sion and Sej have never really been considered the "tankiest" champs in the game

FadedpfAug 26, 20154 votes

They were when they weren't massive hit with the nerf bat all because of cinderhulk and righteous glory. They were pretty tanky with old Cinder, old righteous, old Frozen, old thornmail, old Randuins. But literally all of those items have been nerfed significantly as well as Sion and Sej being nerfed. Those were just 2 examples tanks cant even compete with Juggernauts and just get flat out melted from the Armor nerfs and tank item nerfs. Late game tanks lose to ADC's anyway their itemization has been destroyed before any of the AD items being changed. Last whisper, Black cleaver, Botrk all shredding items are just that more effective.

XonraAug 26, 201512 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gent Poro,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AEGEWkVo,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-08-26T00:01:53.579+0000)

Actually, fun fact, Nunu has been the tankiest champ in the game for a long time, and unless something major changed in the last few months, he still is, having the highest level 18 health stat of all the champs. Again, correct me if I'm wrong or if something's changed, but Sion and Sej have never really been considered the "tankiest" champs in the game

Mmmmmmno. Nunu has the most base health. That isn't the same as being the "tankiest"

Garen has tons of free stats, ability to gain more stats, etc. Nunu has no abilities that give him more stats.

RisenDarkKnightAug 26, 20153 votes

Technically nunu gets 10% more max hp if he consumes red buff. But yeah, garen is still way tankier with his w + his passive regen.

A Miss FortuneAug 26, 20151 votes

The Yeti knows the way.

A Loyal SupportAug 26, 20153 votes

TahmKench go through his massive hp pool + a shield the size of that hp pool.

DazedOnlookerAug 26, 20152 votes

Last champ rotation i had a ton of games with a Shyvana and Garen 's in it, even though Garen tends to be very tanky, i have noticed that its mostly the Shyv's are the most tanky that i have came accross. Mabey just behind Garren in terms of tankiness....mabey..it seems to be 50/50 from what i had to deal with x-x. Its pretty insane because i could never get nearly as tanky as either as these two while playing as Sejuani , and they become almost impossible to kill late game even when my team mates won their laning phases.

RisenDarkKnightAug 26, 20152 votes

Yeah shyvana and garen are tankier than sej bc they get more free stats. It was supposed to be a tradeoff between garen and shyv being easy to kite and sej having cc. Now, sated shyvana just does more damage than an adc with a bruiser build, and garen's e does the damage of a nunu ultimate.

TotalJerkAug 26, 20152 votes

Most of the hyper tanks are only conditionally tanky. Garen is only the tankiest if he times his Ws well. Alistar Nasus Gnar Leona Rammus TahmKench DrMundo can all be borderline impossible to kill under ideal circumstances.

RisenDarkKnightAug 26, 20152 votes

Sion is technically still tankier than garen if sion manages to get decent farm, but garen is stilll brokenly good this patch. Garen does tons of damage (several times what sion does) with no damage items at all and ridicuousl damage with a black cleaver. In addition you can dodge 3 of sions abilities often fairly easily while you can't dodge any of garen's. Your only choice is to kite him, and with help from allied cc and ms boosts, tp flanks, dead man's plate, and tenacity it is really dificult. Yeah it is ridicoulous how much damage garen/skarner/morde do while still being obscenely tanky.

LankPantsAug 26, 20152 votes

Sejuani's never been the tankiest champ in the game. She thrives on her high damage and CC, not indestructibility.

Champs like Alistar , Chogath , DrMundo ect have always been tankier.

AxestsAug 26, 20152 votes

oh yeah? well i remember when SHEN was the tankiest champion in the game

Rinky DinkyAug 26, 20152 votes

Yeah because Garen, morde, skarner, and Darius TOTALLY have as much cc, initation power, peel, etc as Nautilus, Sej, Grag...

Oh wait.

No, they don't

Silents429Aug 26, 20151 votes

Actually Rammus and Sion have him beat for sure.

CrettAug 26, 20151 votes

I really wish Sion could just be unkillable. It'd be fine if he does less damage, but it'd just be really nice if he couldn't die

Crowe StalkerAug 26, 20151 votes

He's need to have zero damage and extremely long cooldowns to allow him to be unkillable. If that were the case he'd have 0 impact and then every game with him'd be a 4v5 or unwinnable.

CrettAug 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

He's need to have zero damage and extremely long cooldowns to allow him to be unkillable. If that were the case he'd have 0 impact and then every game with him'd be a 4v5 or unwinnable.

I'm talking more in the league of "it's pointless to try and kill him, but if you manage to catch him really far out you might kill him with sustained focus fire for about 45 seconds"

TheVishualAug 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I remember when or where considered the tankiest champions in the game. But they have been hit a ton with the nerf bat, with nerfs to their kits making them not even tanky and nerfs to every possible tank item. Tanks feel like a joke when Garen, Skarner and Darius are ahead. They can just chunk the tanks health while taking no damage at all. Garen is just ridiculous. Opressive against melee champions with his Silence all you can do is right click away because you are going to take his combo anyway. All of his free armor and mr just allows him to buy and be unkillable. Rest in pepperonis tanks because Juggernauts beat them not only by soaking more damage but dealing insane amounts of damage. Tanks have been massively over nerfed, I seriously don't know what to say if these armor nerfs stay. Assassins and Juggernauts are the only things being played with of course a Sated jungler.

Garen only gets 30 mr/armor max now post patch from his w

If anything Garen was much more tanky prior to the patch, he just does more damage now... As someone who used to play Garen alot prior to the patch I liked the state he was in better before and think he was better overall.

Dr PoroAug 26, 20151 votes

You're gonna love the hotfix nerf he's getting because he's too OP atm.

TheDeviceAug 26, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Poro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AEGEWkVo,comment-id=000e0000,timestamp=2015-08-26T10:52:45.840+0000)

You're gonna love the hotfix nerf he's getting because he's too OP atm.

No different than riven. Hotfix Riven while they're at it.

matter of fact. When Fiora gets nerfed how bout we then nerf garen and riven k?

ErijianAug 26, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Poro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AEGEWkVo,comment-id=000e0000,timestamp=2015-08-26T10:52:45.840+0000)

You're gonna love the hotfix nerf he's getting because he's too OP atm.

I thought he wasn't part of the hotfix? Just slated for some nerfs on PBE.

VekknaAug 26, 20151 votes

Not really. He was innately tankier, but now his best damage items also make him stupid fast and have stupid amounts of hp. He gets 2000 hp from building his damage core item 3748 item 3742 item 3071 item 3053 . If he wanted that amount of hp before the new items, he had to build item 3083 item 3065 item 3143 .

He was tougher, but he was a lot slower and did vastly less damage and burst. Now it's not that difficult for him to set up an aoe AA for over 500 damage.

TheVishualAug 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Not really. He was innately tankier, but now his best damage items also make him stupid fast and have stupid amounts of hp. He gets 2000 hp from building his damage core . If he wanted that amount of hp before the new items, he had to build .

He was tougher, but he was a lot slower and did vastly less damage and burst. Now it's not that difficult for him to set up an aoe AA for over 500 damage.

His playstyle was different but very effective imo, zz'rot garen was his best guild and you basically turned into an unkillable splitpushing monster who zoned for his team and also had a 2.5 sec silence vs the mobility meta which was fantastic... Build bork if he's stacking HP? He has less tank stats now and still weak to the same people in lane (any ranged toplaner beats him, just don't take melee vs him). He was better before imo and I've played more garen than you have

VekknaAug 26, 20151 votes

You're factually incorrect based on the stats. He's better in every single matchup, and has an advantage against several ranged champs that used to shit on him (see Teemo). Most of his "counters" now go about even with him aside from Quinn and Heimer. But Heimer is a broken champ that stomps almost everything, and Quinn is a very niche pick with an abysmal play rate.

Champion SkinAug 26, 20151 votes

Ehh... well 30 MR/armor is quite a lot given that to get to that he would need 300 bonus resistances (or Bonus 150 armor and 150 MR) Which means that HP stacking has actually been made quite a bit better and well you need to stack a rather large amount of armor/mr for it to be better then the old passive

TheVishualAug 26, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Champion Skin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AEGEWkVo,comment-id=000e0002,timestamp=2015-08-26T20:08:10.340+0000)

Ehh... well 30 MR/armor is quite a lot given that to get to that he would need 300 bonus resistances (or Bonus 150 armor and 150 MR) Which means that HP stacking has actually been made quite a bit better and well you need to stack a rather large amount of armor/mr for it to be better then the old passive

It was actually 20% not 10% bonus. Zz'rot was also so effective cause it gave him both stats and also zz'rot scaled off bonus armor and mr and not max HP like it does now (which garen had the most of because of old W). This combined with that adaptive armor talent in the def tree plus the flat resistance bonuses from the tree + runes made him alot tankier than he is now (albeit he did less damage)

I would agree that stacking health is more effective on him now post patch with the flat resistance bonus from W

Champion SkinAug 26, 20151 votes

Yes it was 20% and 20% of 300 = 60 extra resistances 30 armor + 30 mr = 60 resistances So yeah?

And well being better with stacking HP isn't all that bad as the juggernaut items are loaded with health and AD

Insane PyromanicAug 26, 20151 votes

Skarner is WAYY harder to take down than garen.

FadedpfAug 26, 20151 votes

Yeah I played against him once and never again. Perma banned.

terkmcAug 26, 20151 votes

Rammus Maokai Alistar

TheDeviceAug 26, 20151 votes

The funny thing its thats what I build on sion too lol. Talk about insane damage on a tank. XD

But!

Lets not forget this Riven

Has a shield that scales completely off of AD! Whats the cooldown on that dash/shield you ask? Oh only 6 second max rank. So the funny thing is is that Riven can't really build like that because she's not supposed to take damage at all XDDDD

Get rekt riven players.

Jungle Lux GodAug 26, 20151 votes

Juggernauts can't absorb more damage than a tank, and if they can it's because they need to in order to get to their targets while still having enough life to do deal damage.

If Garen, Darius, Skarner, Mordekaiser, Nasus, Olaf, and all of these other juggernauts can't reach their targets, they do nothing, but they are really good if they can reach their targets. They compensate for it by not having mobility, and therefore being easy to kite.

Tanks, on the other hand, either don't need to reach their targets because they have other ways of having an impact, such as Braum tanking for his carries or Blitzcrank hooking his enemies (preferably their squishies, as hooking the enemy Garen into your team is highly inadvisable) into his team, or they have enough mobility to make their tankiness useful.

And it's not like Tanks were nerfed that hard. Dead Man's Plate is amazing, Randuin's Omen and Frozen Heart are still good, magic resistance items and Warmog's Armor got buffed, and many champions got compensation for losing armor out of their core items, leaving some in a roughly similar place as before except for the fact that they aren't so reliant on specific items.

VekknaAug 26, 20151 votes

People need to stop acting like 500+ movespeed "can't reach their targets" so "they do nothing." They will nearly always reach a target. They might be delayed by cc, but they will almost certainly survive the cc and still have plenty of time to take out one or more enemies.

When Garen is beating Janna in a footrace, it's time to put away the delusion that these guys can be reliably kited for more than a few seconds.

GigahappytownAug 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

People need to stop acting like 500+ movespeed "can't reach their targets" so "they do nothing." They will nearly always reach a target. They might be delayed by cc, but they will almost certainly survive the cc and still have plenty of time to take out one or more enemies.

When Garen is beating Janna in a footrace, it's time to put away the delusion that these guys can be reliably kited for more than a few seconds.

Well techincaly garen can only really beat janna if he has zzrot deadmans and tier three boots and is near a turret But most fights take place in a lane and near turrets so thats not a problem But the average garen build right now is deadmans black cleaver zzrot mercs or ninja tabi sunfire cape and ghostblade some players like to opt out the ghostblade for another tank item

Jungle Lux GodAug 26, 20151 votes

It is true that if a juggernaut can't reach his target that he does nothing.

What is not true is that 500+ movement speed means that the champion will reach its target. For that, the champion has to deal with enemy CC, including slows, and whatever mobility the enemy team has, and then maybe the champion will reach the target, but if he doesn't you can guarantee that the champion will not do anything.

DaxterrAug 26, 20151 votes

After the w change no way. Also garen just completely merks people now, there is no way he is the tankiest.

GigahappytownAug 26, 20151 votes

garen mobility of a assassin durability of a dedicated tank damage of a melee carry :^)

ahferroin7Aug 26, 20151 votes

Mundo wants to contest that. He just needs Spirit Visage and Warmogs and is pretty much unkillable short of a 1v5.

PT WaluigiAug 26, 20151 votes

Dude. The build I used last game, even if it wasn't against people, stacked with my passive, item 3083 and item 3065 plus some other items, when all was combined I got 296.4 health regen per second (it was somewhere around 290 something) plus his W that reduces damage taken and oh boy, don't even blink when he is trying to escape, because he is basically jason voorhees.