@Riot Preseason team: Some ideas for jungle item balance

First off, I made a post like this the first day that jungle came out and it was pretty much the generic "Boohoo, the jungle is too hard now" thing that everyone reacted with day 1. Since then, I have played many more matches and gotten a hold of myself and would like to propose some logical changes. Right now, I actually really like the jungle, the way smite works with mini buffs from the camps, the different jungle items, etc., but I still have some thoughts on how it could be improved.

the Devourer enchantment, which I think is already head and shoulders superior in execution to feral flare, needs attention. I know that it just had its base magic on-hit reduced from 40 to 25, but in my opinion, the big change that this needs to and should have happened with feral flare is that it needs a stack limit. I would say something like boosting the base damage back up to 30, and then adding a cap of 30 or 40 stacks. This new iteration of the same idea is great for several reasons, it stacks in a healthier way (you aren't incentivized to AFK farm until 30 minutes), and it stacks quicker (to compensate for not stacking while you have machete), and it starts stacking when you buy the upgrade (instead of after buying the upgrade and getting 10 more stacks). the problem though is that while it is already healthier that way, it allows to much potential for unlimited damage. Lowering the base damage only re-incentivizes AFK farming to get to that same level of damage. Adding a stack limit IMMEDIATELY makes you less inclined to farm it to max since it will stack quickly to its full potential just by playing like any other good jungler.

Enchantment: Juggernaut has its good and bad, like high health, tenacity, and CDR, but the big issue I have with it is that it doesn't have the same % bonus hp amplifier that old SotAG used to have. Right now, from my experience, only a select few tank junglers are actually doing very well in the jungle right now (like Amumu). As far as my own experience goes, neither nor actually do very well right now, and the biggest help to both of them last season was the quill coat/SotAG changes, because it helped them scale well into late game as pure tanks. I understand that right now you at Riot like having juggernaut give a flat amount of health for "strategic diversity", but some of these big guys would appreciate having the added scaling effect back on the tank jungle item.

Poacher's Knife is in a not so great spot right now. It is running into the dilemma that it is not necessary for counterjungling champions to do well with, but it is not good enough to make it a viable option for types that don't primarily focus on counterjungling. From all the different threads about it here and from my own experience, the big issues right now are that: A) it is inferior at counterjungling to Ranger's Trailblazer, due to having a fast clear being better than having an escape. B) its benefits are limited to being on the opposite side of the map (by this, we mean that while you only get a perk from Poacher's while on the enemy side, you can use or to smite any champion anywhere on the map, or you can have the AOE bonus of on any camp). Some ideas that I think could really help this item (and straight buffs would not make this item good, they would make it either a must buy or still not good at all) are: making it increase the power+duration of smite buffs by 20% for ALL camps (not red and blue buff, just the reward for smiting the camp), making it so that you can smite yourself to become immune to slows and/or give yourself a speed boost (for escaping after invading, although their could be some abuse cases where you could smite yourself and basically get a free cleanse/olaf ult in a fight), and the last decent idea was to make it so that you got the bonus gold and reduced cool down on all camps ( I dislike this one since that just makes it a power farm tool instead of a counterjungling tool).

According to people who have used this enchantment (I haven't yet, since I don't have any good AP junglers who would use it (Kayle and TF work better with devourer)) is that the other enchantments feel cool and unique, but magus is boring. Devourer gives a cool stacking mechanic, Juggernaut gives tenacity, Warrior gives bonus physical damage from all sources, but magus is boring. Additionally, they say that having 20% CDR on it is overkill and nearly useless since SO MANY AP items already give CDR that the stat is less valuable than its statistical cost. Basically, there are so many CDR items that they could get that giving them 20% (which seems like a lot and that should be a good thing) is actually a waste and makes them have to build weirdly, similar to how supports dislike the overkill in CDR options that they get. A good change would be to give it something like Mpen or bonus % true damage to their spells (similar to how the new sorcerer's elixir works).

About balance right now in the jungle, I understand that things are all over the place and that you are working to balance stuff out (like Pantheon and Warwick), so I don't quite have a right to say the jungle is good or the jungle is totally imbalanced since it is still developing. I will say, if you make those changes to Juggernaut enchantment, it would help out some of the less successful tank jungles so far.

As for the other new items, and , They all seem pretty good. I love how you gave us a tanky engage tool so that we can engage with a boost even without being support, so good item there. Raptor's cloak and its soon to be released upgrade both look very interesting and like they will be great for enabling splitpushing. I like the new elixirs, however, the limit to one at a time seems a little lame. I am not advocating allowing someone to purchase all four at once, but buying two at a time could lead to some cool mix and match synergies, just a thought.

Anyway, thanks Riot preseason team and whoever else read all the way through this, I will probably keep updating this thread as I learn more about preseason and get more adjusted to it.