Idea to make Rengar's ult and Eve passive more palatable

BobaFlautist··1 votes·493 views

Make it so instead of stealth, they get "Cannot be seen by stealth wards" while active (and let Rengar keep his jump from ult).

This lets Riot give them more combat power and jungle clear ability, and keeps their powerful flanking, but makes them feel less awful to play against.

I dunno, what do y'all think?

11 Comments

Ralanr2 votes

I don't see what they lose at all.

R181 votes

First off,Evelyn's jungle clear is fine at the moment. Making it so you can see them makes stealth relatively useless. In the case that they added this and Rengar used ult, it would essentially do nothing but activate his bush passive. The problem with stealth, is that is too easy to counter at the moment using pink wards, which is what Riot is changing. A stealth where you aren't invisible to enemies is no stealth IMO.

I find the idea that you can be seen by minions bad, and why would you think that permastealth should be invisible to pinks???????????????

R181 votes

I also dbout this is possible unless Riot revamps the entire vision system..

BobaFlautist1 votes

Alright, so we have one response saying "This would change nothing" and another saying "this would render those abilities useless".

If anything, this would make them fit "Stealth" better. Being stealthy isn't about being literally invisible, it's about using your wits and care to evade detection.

Dominick Destine1 votes

They're already changing it to the exact opposite, HARD nerfing Evelynn and buffing all other stealth champs.

I am hoping Evelynn gets a huge buff to compensate for this utter pillage and plundering of her.

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

Better, she's getting a VGU.

Cue thunder and lightning.

Dominick Destine1 votes

{quoted}

Better, she's getting a VGU.

Cue thunder and lightning.

She already got a rework, another rework is not unexpected or unwelcome.

As long as she doesn't get Olaf'd back into Eve tier again.

ModWulf Helhammer1 votes

Wait what? What about the upcoming changes affect eve? For them the interaction is staying exactly the same

Dominick Destine1 votes

{quoted}

Wait what? What about the upcoming changes affect eve?

Is it really necessary for me to explain the very basics of game balance? very well..... if you buff every character in a specific category of characters (Stealth users) except for one, that means you just HARD GUTTED that one character. Every stealth champ is being buffed by virtue of purple wards no longer (apparently) revealing in-combat stealth but still affecting Evelynn exactly the same way.

Basically, she is HARD GUTTED and will require huge buffs to compensate. There was no reason to nerf Evelynn to begin with.... what is Riot thinking with this?

ModWulf Helhammer1 votes

That logic makes 0 sense. If you're rich, and I suddenly become rich, at no expense to you, do you suddenly become poor?

Dominick Destine1 votes

{quoted}

That logic makes 0 sense. If you're rich, and I suddenly become rich, at no expense to you, do you suddenly become poor?

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

This is exactly why I try to avoid explaining basic concepts. If an individual fails to understand the argument, they will inevitably fail to understand the explanation as well.

But let's explain not for you, rather for the (surprisingly large) audience that somehow follows my comments on these board; Game balance does not work that way (Raw, isolated value). Your analogy depends on a resource that would otherwise be irrelevant to third parties, whereas game balance works based on a model of viable alternatives. If you buff everyone except one, that is a massive nerf to the one because the selection process greatly favors literally every other choice now.

Or, using your incredibly flawed analogy; If I'm wealthy because I have a lot of gold, and suddenly you discover a gold mine and flood the market with gold, my gold is now worthless, but even that analogy is bad. Your analogy of comparing money to game balance was just pure garbage.

A better analogy would be an employee selection process; If you have 10 initially viable candidates with equal levels of strengths to perform the task you desire, then you have 10 candidates, but if 9 of these candidates are "magically" given extra strengths or more realistically the 10th candidate is in a car accident, losing the function of his left arm, then that last candidate is no longer viable and will be tossed aside in favor of stronger choices. THAT is how game balance works. It is based on choice, not ... whatever you think your analogy was meant to represent.

I know this went over your head right now but think about it, it's really not that complicated....

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