Edge of Night is meant to counter mages and supports with anti-engage, not telegraphed damage.

TeCoolMage··5 votes·2,516 views

Ziggs, Xerath and Lux are all countered by EoN due to its ability to block any spell if given enough time. (Karthus is the main mention with this problem actually) All these champions are countered by being engaged on, while Edge of Night is meant specifically to counter champions that counter a good engage, like Malzahar.

This is what Riot expects: Use EoN and wait 1.5 seconds while poking or dodging, then go in and take 1 CC ability or have it delayed for a few seconds. Deal damage and get out in this time.

What Riot doesn't want: Karthus ults, and EoN is used in the channel time. Or use EoN and walk out of range/vision for Lux, Xerath and Ziggs. Block the spell or delay it long enough to be too difficult to aim.

This is because the item works on spells that aren't meant to counter an engage.

Most spells that are anti-engage have these traits:

  • Used on gap closer or while being attacked
  • Can be used while moving (one huge exception)
  • Don't have channel times (one huge exception, same as last time)

While all other spells tend to have two of these traits with no specific pattern (anti-engage just tend to always have these traits): used while moving, and no channel times

So that leaves this: Used on gap closer or while being attacked.

My solution is this: Add a combat, range, or mobility restriction on the item.

Very few AD champions have global ultimates while being reliant on engaging like assassins rather than poking, and very few engage AD champions have no mobility.

So to stop the item from unintentionally countering Karthus and other channel based champions, the item should have one of these changes:

  1. Have a range restriction, you have to be in a range comparable to LeBlanc's dash or Katarina's Shunpo to the champion casting the spell. (Locks out some ADCs as an advantage)

  2. Combat restriction, you must have dealt damage within the last 4 seconds (and after channeling) to block an ability. (Advantage of forcing proactive play rather than dodging abilities, taking a hit, THEN dealing damage)

  3. Turn it into a passive that only blocks if you were hit while dashing, blinking or something (it stops immobile champions from taking this I guess)

EDIT: lol random downvote, ty.

10 Comments

Weathered2 votes

It just got nerfed on the PBE

TeCoolMage1 votes

15 seconds increase on cooldown doesn't solve the problem, it just makes the item weaker (possibly more balanced) against the situations it's intended against. It's still broken in that it has several unintended uses.

CerealBoxOfDoom2 votes

{quoted}

Edge of Night is meant to counter mages and supports with anti-engage, not telegraphed damage.

is that what it said in the disclaimer or something?

TeCoolMage1 votes

yes.

Nahui1 votes

Well, not to be nitpicky, but Lux in particular won't be affected too much by this item. Her R is too quick for it. The cast time is much quicker than the item, and it would require HEAVY forethought and a bit of luck to properly simply block most Lux ults as they typically happen when your bound. Plus, once Lux's R gets some points, the CD is negligent to the item's CD so if anything Lux can be considered a heavy counter to this item due to the need to block the ult, but the ult being so low CD.

Otherwise, I see where you're coming from. However, as an item, it really isn't much. 60 AD, 35 MR, 20 out of combat speed and 20 lethality. The part of it that everyone is freaking out about is that it's an active spellshield, however banshee's veil is MUCH cheaper, provides the same thing automatically, with a bit of a longer CD. The difference is one is a tanky item, one is a damage item. The part that makes this item balanced though is that it must channel 1.5 seconds without damage taken. This isn't an item one simply uses in a fight. You have to use it before. They cut down the overall damage that most assassins deal, or at least the initial burst/time to burst, so they need to give them some sort of tool to be relevant in team fight/late game, and the ability to soak at least one spell in the crazy flurry that is a team fight doesn't seem over the top. The only thing I ask of Riot is to make a CLEAR visual of both the spellshield and the shield channeling up so people can properly react whether to disrupt it, waste it or run away from it.

In terms of champs like Karthus, Zilean, etc, yeah. They do feel the negative effects of this item very hard. Maybe not Zilean due to his low CD bombs, but champs like Karthus. Ziggs, etc. However, buffing these champions is a buff vs all, and not vs assassins as this item is intended for. While the item is a middle finger to a couple champions, let's not forget the fact that AP has a middle finger to every champion in the game. As scary as the item seems, it's a counter-mage item tailored for assassins. Now that Maw has been nerfed out of assassin use (Or at least conventional assassin use, could be picked up as a banshee's alternative), assassins really don't have any reasonable items to buy vs AP. Maw is not good anymore for them, Merc is situational for CC and even then, it's an item one gets very late in the game.

Like someone pointed out either this thread or another, it's just a shock phase. Duskblade carries Zed's ult in a way, protobelt holds a dash and Sterak's an insane damage steroid with a large shield. We also have banshees which is the tanky, honestly better version of this AD item. I'm not saying it's bad, but this often happens with new items that due new things. People freak out before even seeing how this will work in practice. Duskblade was terribly controversial when it was announced. However, I don't recall it getting a SINGLE balance change for all the negativity it received. We'll have to see though.

TeCoolMage1 votes

Well if EoN would follow its niche, it would be less versatile than banshee's veil and be allowed to be more powerful.

Either they make it OP, useless, or balanced but not fulfilling its purpose at all. I'd be alright if it had better stats if it worked purely as anti engage

Nahui1 votes

I think it has a great collection of stats tailored to a specific class. It's not meant to be an item for all to enjoy equally. Lethality for obvious reasons, MS for roaming and flanking, MR for mage match ups, and the new active that gives them a good chance to impact teamfights.

I don't know if a purely disengage item would be healthy. Assassins are already very agile and slippery, and giving them a powerful disengage item would be over the top. However, banshees isn't really a good item on assassins anymore due to the loss of 200 health and the simple gain in 20 MR. I personally don't find it versatile. It is tailored for a single class, however as ADCs tend to always do, it might be abused due to giving AD and having nice features. However, I doubt we'll be seeing this item on anything besides assassins, off-meta builds, and cheesy ADCs.

LordGeovanni1 votes

If it was it would have a longer cooldown spell sheild than Spirit visage not a shorter one considering Spirit Visages cooldown resets with any damage. Edit: Yes i did mean Banshees Veil not Spirit Visage

TeCoolMage1 votes

Does spirit visage even have a cooldown??

Michael Sykes1 votes

he is probably talking about Banshee's Veil, and it does have a cooldown

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