Stop Complaining about Conqueror Incorrectly

Frosted Tips··9 votes·7,350 views
  1. The True Damage you do in the game with Conqueror is converted from damage you would have don't anyway, but some of it now doesn't get resisted.
  2. Also read the post game lobby "True Damage Dealt" is different then "True Damage Dealt to Champions" the later is the one that relates to Conqueror
  3. The first number Conqueror shows is the damage converted to true damage, but that one actually doesn't mean much the one that matters is the number underneath that is "True damage that would have been mitigated"

26 Comments

Boatwhistle8 votes

I think most sources of true dmg is just a piss poor way to deal with tankiness overall. Its an ultimatum in game that should be strategy based.

Frosted Tips5 votes

My personal belief is that true damage should exist, but only in a specific few champions kits. I wish they would reduce the amount of true damage in the game, but I kinda understand why they switched IE because Marksman were one shotting squishies and new IE stopped that.

Boatwhistle4 votes

Well that's why I said most sources. Certain ults and even the few abilities that have it make sense. Ignite makes sense. True damage that does a definite amount of dmg for a moment or duration is fine and has reasonable applications and reasons. However having true damage as specifically a means to defeat tankiness for the entire duration of fighting a tanky champion is nothing short of a copout. LOL could have such a more in depth relationship between tankiness and damage. Rather then balancing the two around more complex dynamics they just say hay! Here is a thing that allows you to defeat tanks without hurting your dmg potential to squishies that significantly!

Velzard of Koz1 votes

The reason why True Damage exists is because it takes no skill to buy resistance and there is no way to outplay it. If you have 100 AP on Mage, for example, you still need to apply it. Miss every skillshot and it's wasted gold. But Tank with 200 Armor can just stand there taking enemy's hits, expressing no skill and fully capitalize on it. They need to accumulate gold like anyone else, just not express skill in using stats bought.

This is not problem If you have at least chance to outplay the tank's kit from range. But what were Fighters supposed to do? In melee range most of them would be inevitable victim to most tanks' entire kits who then win trade because they knew how to press BUY and have good damage even when not building damage as long as enemy doesn't build resistance, which they don't, as they are dmg dealer.

So Riot gave Fighters uncounterable wildcard stat to counter otherwise uncounterable wildcard stat and are also recently filling their kits with traits to mitigate heavy amounts of damage naturally, be more mobile and have more range control so that the Fighter could do something.

Could Riot implement a counter to that better? Yes, in the world where tankiness has skill expression rather than being that unkillable behemoth that throws in CC and wins fight. Where Assasins don't oneshot on the basis that you didn't get twice your HP worth of Shield. Where Enchanters cannot give you twice your HP worth of shield without skill expression. Where Burst Mage isn't dodgeball of one ability into death once you get hit once. Where ADCs aren't either better ranged version of the above or the champion that just clicks champion 'n ground repeatedly faster as the items go on. Where CC scales with skillshot range so champion either has range control or peel but cannot say fuck you to divers both ways. Where Fighters And Assasins can actually be hit instead of flying around big time.

But we're not in such wourld, we are in world of race arms of who got the most bullshit mechanic this year.

Fízz v26 votes

Still an overpowered rune tho

ankoanko192 votes

I still dont get as to why Conq works on every single physical dmg ability and not just AA. It is so fucking oppressive on Darius Riven and to a less extent Jax for this exact reason.

Z3Sleeper1 votes

It's good on Jax moreso because of the bonus AD rather than the conversion, that's just a little cherry on top.

Jax is a champ that builds very little AD early on (Tiamat + TriForce at the most) but benefits highly from the stat due to having tons of attack speed and an auto reset. So Conqueror's AD bonus is essentially boosting his laning power until he scales up. Ofcourse the conversion is doing a ton here too, since Conqueror converts all damage, not just physical.

So Jax late game becomes a mobile hyper-carry that deals mixed damage, converts 20% of that mixed damage to true damage and is extremely tanky due to his meta itemization, his E and his ult that grants 70+ armor and mr.

ankoanko191 votes

Yeah exactly. All of his AD ratios are only bonus AD so conq works wonders. I still dont understand WHY conq works on abilities. Conq should be like Rageblade where it only applies on basic attacks and doesnt reset off on hit abilities & dont deal bonus dmg from abilities.

Need Gold 4 Tent1 votes

{quoted}

Yeah exactly. All of his AD ratios are only bonus AD so conq works wonders. I still dont understand WHY conq works on abilities. Conq should be like Rageblade where it only applies on basic attacks and doesnt reset off on hit abilities & dont deal bonus dmg from abilities.

I.e. Fervor. But Riot hates Fervor.

FireDrizzle1 votes

{quoted}

It's good on Jax moreso because of the bonus AD rather than the conversion, that's just a little cherry on top.

Jax is a champ that builds very little AD early on (Tiamat + TriForce at the most) but benefits highly from the stat due to having tons of attack speed and an auto reset. So Conqueror's AD bonus is essentially boosting his laning power until he scales up. Ofcourse the conversion is doing a ton here too, since Conqueror converts all damage, not just physical.

So Jax late game becomes a mobile hyper-carry that deals mixed damage, converts 20% of that mixed damage to true damage and is extremely tanky due to his meta itemization, his E and his ult that grants 70+ armor and mr.

The conversion makes a huge difference in tank matchups, I used too pick Naut as a conter too Jax but now it can go either way.

'

I miss being able too take item 1029 as my starting item. It's trash design that conqueror takes forever too come up or can be procced at the start of a fight. Fervor rewarded fighters and punished tanks for extended fights but now it's moreso about the matchup.

Frosted Tips1 votes

Because that is what was missing. Press the attack was good for AA. All none AA based bruisers took any trash rune they could take because they couldn't proc PtA

ankoanko191 votes

So why did everyone take fervor then?

Frosted Tips1 votes

Because it gave the AD and it stacked per AA so each AA made it strong on each ability because you got more AD. So if true damage only applied on AA then it would either be too strong on AA based champions or too weak on caster fighters.

LordGeovanni1 votes

This is flawed because you still get the ad which you just said is the reason why casters took fervor. Just pointing out Conqourer is a trash design rune in the first place even if it lets bruisers body tanks because armor was far too opressive item 3071 item 3142 item 3153 (in kit champion armor pen/ ignore / % hp damage/ increased auto attack modifiers Darius Garen Ashe Caitlyn Draven Kaisa Kayn Garen Gangplank Gnar Jinx etc)

Frosted Tips1 votes

Yes you get the AD but AA based champion would benefit exceedingly more because they will do much more true damage and have the AD benefit while caster fighters only get the AD while with fervor they both only got the AD so no one got true damage. And the rest of what you said doesn't make sense to me could you try to explain yourself. Probably requires a few sentences instead of just one.

LordGeovanni1 votes

But auto attack champions auto attack more often thus they build up fervor faster and they get more use from the ad because that auto more. same thing

Frosted Tips1 votes

Not nearly to the extent that Conqueror would if only the true damage was on AA only.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Conq works on all non true damage sources physical or magical not just physical damage.

Dark Royalty2 votes

The rune has to be op because without it bruisers would be in such a garbage situation. Before the rune tanks beat bruisers early and late game but conquerer lets bruisers actually 1v1 tanks. I wouldnt care if conq got nerfed if bruiser items got buffed.

Frosted Tips1 votes

Bruisers should always beat tanks in a 1v1. Tanks are good at team fighting not 1v1s

Dark Royalty1 votes

Yeah but thats what im trying to say. In pre season and before conq tanks were winning 1v1. They needed a rune that lets bruisers duel tanks.

Frosted Tips2 votes

It doesn't sound like that because your argument says that Conq must be OP for fighters to be able to fight tanks, but that contradicts saying fights should beat tanks 1 on 1.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Im not 100% in agreement with this Tanks should beat bruisers if they fight on rotations instead of allins with no breaks up until bruisers can build sustain which bruisers dont do any more because they dont build enough damage for sustain to be useful because bruisers and tanks have the exact same build except they trade out one to two item for titanic hydra steraks gage or trinity force steraks gage

Frosted Tips1 votes

That is fine if bruisers fight in rotation, but I was meaning 1v1 like 100% health vs 100% equal gold spent and just a all in. And if fighters trade correctly they should win too. Tanks should only win if they are drastically ahead in gold and exp or trading with little to not retaliation from the bruiser.

Dark Royalty1 votes

Im saying that bruisers werent winning this before conq. Before the only reason to play a bruiser was to play darius or fiora who counter tanks. Tanks a few months ago were broken and beat bruisers in lane and were more useful out of it.

LordGeovanni1 votes

As true as this is i dont want to beat tanks if its with broken true damage as a fighter main. the main reason bruisers lose to tanks is because defensive items are so weak that fighters cant build strong enough defensive items while building enough damage to still be a threat so its bruisers build as a tank but with titanic or trinity or bruisers build as an assassin forgoing any defense.

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