Help/Advice/Reasons... There are some champs I simply cannot preform well against.

Proelium·Jun 4, 2015·1 votes·410 views

I'm not saying they're OP. I'm not IMPLYING they're OP. I'm saying that for some reason I can never preform well against these champions... and I'm asking for ideas of why...or perhaps something I need to do to change the way I think when against these champs.

Zed , Ekko , Yasuo , Fiz , Riven , Renekton are the champs... anything helpful?

I'm honestly just fed up with myself for failing against them...

For clarity, I play the following champs but no matter who I play I am consistently under-preforming vs these champs.

The only champ I play that I feel I'm consistently doing well (against these champions) as is

7 Comments

GuileRavenJun 4, 20152 votes

The common denominator is that these are all champions who specialize in direct confrontation. Your issue is that you are most likely either fighting them head on, or panicing when they go in on you and letting them get off free damage; which is exactly what they specialize at. You need to poke and do short trades, and try to bait out their abilities. If Riven uses her abilities to go in on you start kiting, when she starts retreating you start attacking her back.

It's all about being passive aggressive. You don't go after them, you let them come after you; and they will come after you, otherwise they will get outscaled.

ProeliumJun 4, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The common denominator is that these are all champions who specialize in direct confrontation. Your issue is that you are most likely either fighting them head on, or panicing when they go in on you and letting them get off free damage; which is exactly what they specialize at. You need to poke and do short trades, and try to bait out their abilities. If Riven uses her abilities to go in on you start kiting, when she starts retreating you start attacking her back.

This was super helpful (the other comments were too). Finding a common denominator is super useful.

Makes a lot of sense, but for the sake of argument (I agree with you but I learn better if you explain it lol) doesn't your solution require the enemy to screw up? How do I beat them if they DON'T mess up bigtime? Also baiting out abilities on some of them is almost pointless as their abilities have half or less the cd of most of my champ's abilities.

Again, I actually agree with you, but seeing your defenses to those arguments will really help me.

GuileRavenJun 4, 20152 votes

{quoted}

This was super helpful (the other comments were too). Finding a common denominator is super useful.

Makes a lot of sense, but for the sake of argument (I agree with you but I learn better if you explain it lol) doesn't your solution require the enemy to screw up? How do I beat them if they DON'T mess up bigtime? Also baiting out abilities on some of them is almost pointless as their abilities have half or less the cd of most of my champ's abilities.

It's less "requiring them to screw up" as much as it is "not giving them the chance to succeed". These champions need to be aggressive, get kills, or zone you out of your cs; or they fall behind.

It's hard to go into detail when each champion has different methods of aggression, and different methods of being passive aggressive. Each champion also has different level ranges where they are powerful vs really weak. For example Fizz is pretty much a free kill for any ranged champion up until lvl 3. I suggest you watch some videos involving the specific champion match ups that you are having trouble with. It'll be much better than me going over the intricacies of each individual champion match up over text.

ProeliumJun 4, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It's less "requiring them to screw up" as much as it is "not giving them the chance to succeed".

It's hard to go into detail when each champion has different methods of aggression, and different methods of being passive aggressive. I suggest you watch some videos involving each of the specific champion match ups that you are having trouble with. It'll be much better than me going over the intricacies of each individual champion match up.

Alright. :) I'll have to find some with good commentary, sadly I don't learn much by just "watching". I'm sure the vids will be easy enough to find. Thank you so much for all the help.

The other thing I'm hoping to address is that with several of the matchups I just feel like they have more tools at their disposal than I do, therefore more options. Any ideas there? As far as I know Champs are all pretty much on the same "scale" as far as tools go but I constantly feel like I have less.

GuileRavenJun 4, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Alright. :) I'll have to find some with good commentary, sadly I don't learn much by just "watching". I'm sure the vids will be easy enough to find. Thank you so much for all the help.

Another thing you can do is play the champions you hate fighting. By learning how they work, and the mindset you are in when you play them; you are better able to predict what they need to accomplish in lane, and how to deny those things.

The other thing I'm hoping to address is that with several of the matchups I just feel like they have more tools at their disposal than I do, therefore more options. Any ideas there?

I think you underestimate the tools that your champions have. Teemo is absolutely hated because he is long ranged, has strong harass, tons of cc, and mobility.

zane yalgirJun 4, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I'm not saying they're OP. I'm not IMPLYING they're OP. I'm saying that for some reason I can never preform well against these champions... and I'm asking for ideas of why...or perhaps something I need to do to change the way I think when against these champs.

Zed, Ekko, Yasuo, Fiz, Riven, Renekton are the champs... anything helpful?

I'm honestly just fed up with myself for failing against them...

renekton you need to be mind ful of his e which is his dash. if he cant get next to you he cant hit you

its one dash if it hits nothing two if it does damage

second thing is his rage. if its under 50 hes game

if its over poke poke poke and make him waste on q -- riven is a counter pick and gets ruined by -- yasou is so bad atm you must be ranged aa of skill shot champion -- ekko is broken ban him -- zed is bad tell last whisper and has a passive based on your hp

item 3157 item 3139 counter his ult hard cc is good for him hes a conter pick like riven make sure you have a dash or are a good Annie -_- fizz is broken you either burst him or peel him from afar

ProeliumJun 4, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=zane yalgir,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9hliOiJs,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-06-04T07:06:16.823+0000)

renekton you need to be mind ful of his e which is his dash. if he cant get next to you he cant hit you

its one dash if it hits nothing two if it does damage

second thing is his rage. if its under 50 hes game

if its over poke poke poke and make him waste on q -- riven is a counter pick and gets ruined by -- yasou is so bad atm you must be ranged aa of skill shot champion -- ekko is broken ban him -- zed is bad tell last whisper and has a passive based on your hp

counter his ult hard cc is good for him hes a conter pick like riven make sure you have a dash or are a good -_- fizz is broken you either burst him or peel him from afar

Like I said to the above poster: I agree with you.

However I learn by "argument" so if you'll humor me and explain/prove these ideas wrong that'd help me a TON in being better at beating them.

Renekton: His E dash is pretty long if he hits 2 things, and I don't think a strat of HOPING he messes up and misses a target will be consistent.

Riven: So I have to learn counterpicks to beat her? What are some others? As I despise cho...

Yasuo: It seems that the yasuo's I face are really good about having their tornado up (pretty easy to get up) and if I'm playing Malz for example- My E's cd is actually longer than it takes for him to have 3Q's so if I go in for a pre 6 E harrass he just dashes to me and knocks me in the air and gets free attacks. Malz is supposed to be pretty even with him but this happens a LOT.

Ekko: Yeah, his passive alone should send up red flags. Can Jax have that as his ult plz? lol

Zed: I included him because I used to have a lot of trouble with him, I completely understand he's pretty weak pre LW. Only champ I CANNOT beat him with is Anivia

Fizz: yeah, it seems either I stomp him or he trident's my butt till kingdom come. :/