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Ideas for Kha'zix Update: Giving his Evolutions Distinctive Identities

Merxamers··19 votes·2,319 views

Hey guys; Kha'zix is my favorite champion. I love him so much that, out of my frustration for not being able to play him well enough, spent multiple days doing nothing but playing Kha'zix to learn his ins and outs. He's had a weird history of balance; for a time, he was a mid champion who built tear and spammed his OP rockets everywhere! While i don't think he's in a particularly awful spot (besides the rise of the juggernaut meta), he has a recurring set of problems that holds his innovative and interesting kit back.

Problems:

  1. There is always an objectively 'superior' choice of evolutions to take. Right now, if you don't evolve his Q (claws) and E (leap w/ reset) by level 11, you are trolling. W (missiles) and R (extra ult charge) are nice, but luxuries compared to the other two. If you don't evolve Q, you are an assassin without damage. If you don't evolve E, you're a jungler who can't gank. Nerfing Q + E and buffing W + R wouldn't solve anything either; they would just be the new 'must-get' evolutions. What is needed is a clear distinction between the evolutions, such that all are viable in certain situations.

  2. His evolutions will be made Super-broken or Useless with slight buffs/nerfs. We saw this with both the on-release missiles (the damage was ridiculous for a ranged ability on an assassin), and the damage reduction on the evolved ultimate (made 'tank kha'zix' viable). Now that those abilities are nerfed, no experienced khazix ever gets these before level 16.

  3. His gameplay is too easily countered by "grouping". This may be debatable, as this is the way to counter every assassin, but it's worth noting for Kha'zix because almost all of his damage comes from the isolation bonus on his evolved Q. If the enemy team uses the buddy system, it's very hard for him to make an impact.

Possible Solutions:

I don't pretend to have all of the answers for this, but i've thought of a few ideas that could give more creativity to Kha'zix's evolution choices.

  1. Move some or all of his Q-evolution 'isolation damage' to a passive on his ultimate. The reason Q is such a necessary evolution is that it lets khazix (an assassin) do damage. By moving some of this to his ult as a passive, you wouldn't feel locked into HAVING to take Q evolution every time. This may effect his pre-level 6 strength somewhat, but as it is now it's hard for him to make much of an impact early anyway (you're lucky to get 2 decent ganks off before level 6, usually)

  2. **His evolved Q should add a "cleave" to his Q and AAs **. Tiamat --> Rav. Hydra is a super strong build on him right now. Why? Because it gives sustain and wave/camp clear, and a small amount of AoE burst. Making an evolved Q give him cleave on his autoattacks would help mitigate the frustrations of a grouped enemy team, and provide many of the advantages the soon-to-be-nerfed tiamat provided. On live, evolved Q has some AoE damage, i believe, but it's not that significant. Per my suggestion, taking evolved Q should mean that Khazix should be able to jump on two 1/3rd health squishies and take them out, giving him some 'small skirmish' strength.

  3. Give his W (missiles) armor shred. This could be a dangerous change, but i believe it's necessary. Armor pen in general is being severely nerfed for assassins like khazix in the upcoming preseason: Black Cleaver is more expensive with inferior stats, last whisper is based on BONUS armor, and brutalizer is being removed altogether. Giving his missiles armor shred would not only compensate for this, it would: give him a chance against super-tanky juggernauts, fit more thematically with the idea of "shooting missiles" beyond a slow and heal(?), and allow him to provide utility for his team if he falls behind. This would make the W evolution a valid, but not required, option.

  4. Add "AoE Damage Reduction While Invisible" to the evolved R. People used to exploit the total damage reduction on his evolved ultimate to towerdive and generally be too tanky for his glass cannon builds. As it is today, i only evolve R in order to add extra presence to teamfights, and this proposed change would encourage that. Giving him some survivability, while not reducing damage from autoattacks, single target abilities, or turrets, would give him more teamfight presence when he needs it, without making him overpowered.

  5. Leave the evolved E (leap) as it is. It's his defining ability, and i honestly think it's in a good spot.

Those are just my thoughts. I think that with these changes, Khazix could truly **EVOLVE **to match whatever game situation he faces. Feel free to share your thoughts :)

35 Comments

Variks the Loyal10 votes

I don't think adding an Armor Shred to Void Spikes would be very helpful, simply because it would make his rotation much more difficult and complicated to pull off.

Currently, you use Leap, use Hydra in mid air, use Taste Their Fear, AA for Unseen Threat, then use Void Spikes when/if they try to escape. If Void Spikes has an armor shred, it would become optimal to use it at the beginning, before Taste Their Fear. This would be problematic. While Void Spikes has a slow, it still gives enemies time to move to an ally, time to Flash or escape away, time for their allies to retaliate, etc. And, if you use Void Spikes the same way as you do now, then the Armor Shred is invisible power without any real uses, because you've either already killed them, they're so low that the Shred wouldn't make the difference, or they've escaped, so it's useless anyway.

Your idea for a cleave on Q and AAs is interesting. In the right situations, you could use it to force isolation upon an enemy by finishing enemy minions or monsters nearby. But I think it would be too clunky, and not add much beyond waveclear, which is, in my opinion, an acceptable weakness to Kha'Zix that Ravenous Hydra helps with. It's a cool idea, but I don't see how it would help him terribly much besides increasing his jungle clear speed. Btw, on live his Evolved Q does NOT deal AoE damage.

What I think needs to happen with Kha'Zix is that his evolutions should NOT give extra damage potential. What they should give is utility that makes his assassinations easier to pull off. In theory, a Kha'Zix should be able to assassinate without any evolutions, but they make it easier to pull off, and different players, with different playstyles, evolve different things. This lets Kha'Zix be the game's most versatile Assassin, who can evolve to meet every situation. Are they grouping to cancel isolation? There's an evolve for that. Are they rushing you and you need to be able to kite? There's an evolve for that. Etc.

You're not wrong. There are objectively better evolutions, and that shouldn't be. All of the evolutions should be relatively equal in power, while providing different utility bonuses. Here's my proposed changelist for Kha'Zix...

Base Changes

  • Automatically gains an evolution point at level one, now gaining one at 1/6/11/16.
  • Can now evolve his passive, in addition to his other abilities.

Unseen Threat

  • New effect: Evolve Venom Sacs: Kha’Zix’s claws gain a hallucinogenic venom. When Kha’Zix effects an enemy with Unseen Threat, they are considered to be Isolated. Visually, when Unseen Threat is active, his claws drip venom onto the ground, and the glow is now a darker purple.

Taste Their Fear

  • Bonus damage to isolated targets increased to 80%, from 30%. Isolated bonus against monsters is still only 30%.
  • Evolved Enlarged Claws: No longer increases the damage of Taste Their Fear. Now causes Taste Their Fear to ignore 50% of an isolated target’s bonus Armor. Now applies full isolation bonus to jungle monsters.

Void Spikes

  • Evolved Spike Racks: Multiple explosions now heal Kha’Zix for more, but additional explosions only heal for 30% of normal. Void Spikes now applies Life Steal.

Leap

  • Range increased to 750, from 600.
  • Evolved Wings: Extra range reduced to 850, from 900. Now causes Leap to deal double damage against minions and monsters.

Void Assault

  • Evolved Active Camouflage: No longer increases stealth duration. Stealth from Void Assault is immune to True Sight.

By adding an additional evolution point and evolution, Kha'Zix's overall versatility is greatly increased. Of course, none of the evolutions actually provide Kha'Zix with bonus damage against champions, but each has it's own niche now.

Evolved Venom Sacs, for Unseen Threat, allows Kha'Zix to counter enemies who group up tightly. Attacking group enemies is still, of course, risky, because it's putting him in harm's way, but makes assassinating easier. Early, this would be a weak choice, since enemies don't group up as often. Later, during teamfighting, this would be stronger. But depending on your playstyle, not absolutely necessary. If you find yourself sneaking up to delete squishies before teamfights, it won't help as much.

Evolved Enlarged Claws, for Taste Their Fear, no longer increases isolated damage. The base isolation bonus for Q is increased to compensate, except on jungle monsters so his clear isn't changed. When evolved, it grants the utility of additional range, which makes it easier to reach targets. The armor penetration allows Kha'Zix to dual with tanks, or enemies who've built armor.

Evolved Spike Racks gives utility in survivability. Kha'Zix can heal himself for more in the jungle and against enemies in teamfights.

Evolved Wings doesn't give as dramatic of a range benefit, but gives Kha'Zix the ability to force isolation, especially early game, by killing damaged minions or jungle monsters caught nearby his Leap. Still grants the resets for speedy initiations and escapes, of course.

Evolved Active Camouflage allows Kha'Zix to effortlessly sneak around and reposition himself in teamfights, without fear of being spotted out by True Sight.

Merxamers2 votes

Interesting thoughts. With regards to my proposed W change, i was thinking more of 'When do I evolve this?', which is when my team's behind and needs waveclear, so i can be useful. Giving the missiles armor shred gives power for the AD members of my team. It is true that it wouldn't help too much with a well-executed combo. However, if they restored the ability to cast it while mid-leap, and removed the slow to compensate?... That would be cool.

I'm not sure adding armor shred to his Q is a healthy change, because then you would HAVE to take Q as an evolution every game. Armor Pen is really good on Khazix, i'm sure we'll agree, which is why armor pen items (after rav hydra) are so core on him. Adding it to his main damage ability, rather than a low-damage utility spell (W), could be problematic balance-wise.

The evolved passive is an interesting thought, but i can't help but think that if you're able to mark any target as 'isolated', isolated damage as a whole would have to be severely nerfed to compensate. I personally feel that his R evolution should be his 'teamfight' evolution, whatever the change ends up being.

I'm glad that we have similar philosophies on this; each of his evolutions should be situationally good. Let's see how this pre-season treats him :P

YumaS2Astral2 votes

{quoted}

Interesting thoughts. With regards to my proposed W change, i was thinking more of 'When do I evolve this?', which is when my team's behind and needs waveclear, so i can be useful. Giving the missiles armor shred gives power for the AD members of my team. It is true that it wouldn't help too much with a well-executed combo. However, if they restored the ability to cast it while mid-leap, and removed the slow to compensate?... That would be cool.

I'm not sure adding armor shred to his Q is a healthy change, because then you would HAVE to take Q as an evolution every game. Armor Pen is really good on Khazix, i'm sure we'll agree, which is why armor pen items (after rav hydra) are so core on him. Adding it to his main damage ability, rather than a low-damage utility spell (W), could be problematic balance-wise.

The evolved passive is an interesting thought, but i can't help but think that if you're able to mark any target as 'isolated', isolated damage as a whole would have to be severely nerfed to compensate. I personally feel that his R evolution should be his 'teamfight' evolution, whatever the change ends up being.

I'm glad that we have similar philosophies on this; each of his evolutions should be situationally good. Let's see how this pre-season treats him :P

I also have some proposed changes:

  • Allowing the isolation radius to decrease with levels. Currently it is 425 and it could go down to 300 at level 18, or 350 (which is the old isolation radius before it was nerfed to 500).
  • "At level 11, towers no longer count as allies for the purposes of denying isolation"
Merxamers1 votes

That would be a nice change, i think.

Zatch Nakarie2 votes

Maybe not towers but I think minions should no longer block isolation past levels 11 or 16. Towers should be very safe places as you are near a very powerful structure. Minions on the other hand lose their effectiveness as the game goes on; much like Garen's passive is no longer affected by them at a certain level, so should minions not bother Kha'zix past levels 11 or 16 with the exception of cannon minions. He is a large void creature, small minions should not scare him.

Oblivianos1 votes

nice train of thought that he isnt scared but think about it. what if the enemy kha'zix is slightly ahead or has just plainly gotten to that passive-changing level?? then the area you can be pretty much boned by him is almost the entire map. minions provide these small moving safe-zone pockets that you can use to run. surely as a khazix jungle main i would like the change but it isn't fair.

Zatch Nakarie1 votes

6 month response, I think thats a record.

And that is a fair point, its less counter play for his isolation.

what if the enemy kha'zix is slightly ahead or has just plainly gotten to that passive-changing level??

Thats the point of the change, its a last power spike for Kha. And by that point in the game the varied levels of power are set, people have their items, who is ahead is ahead.

But the points I put this change at are suggested for a reason. (granted I would put the change at 16 where he is fully evolved).

There are several things that happen when this change is put into place,

  1. it allows Kha to focus solely on champions and not have to prioritize wave clear in order to engage. This means you can trade in tiamat later on for a survival item or a more cost effective offensive item.

  2. Opens up Kha to be a split push threat rather than just a roaming assassin, making his top lane seem more viable since he has the advantage later on in the 1v1.

This also solidifies his role as the champion you do not want to fight alone. There is still counter play, cannons are not affected and bringing a buddy can shut him down.

Master Lycan1 votes

Personally, I think OP's Identification of Kha'zix's problems is spot on. Also Props To Crewx for what i think would be one of the most Balanced Buffs to Kha'zix I ever could see.

But Knowing My way around Both Kha'zix and Rengar I still have some complaints. To give some background, It is my opinion that the measure of a balanced Kha'zix would be; being able to duel Rengar to a 50/50, a la Summoner Showdown 4.

So I propose that Kha'zix's ult animation have some Invincibility frames. Similar to Shaco's ulti, so that a Skilled Kha'zix player could dodge things like a Zed Death mark, Vi Q's, Morgana bindings, and Rengar bolas. This could even be part of his Ultimate Evolution, made to help him on dueling champs that he can't assassinate with one combo. (Which I believe was the Intent of the ability anyway) This Wouldn't directly increase his damage or survivability, but allow skilled players a bit of a safety net against High CC or skillshot teams.

FastAsHeck1 votes

I think that Kha's identity is adapting depending on the situation, and this is what should be focused on with any updates. I like your ideas a lot, here are some things I thought of as well:

Base Changes Automatically gains an evolution point at level one, now gaining one at 1/6/11/16. Can now evolve his passive, in addition to his other abilities.

I love this. Starting with an evolution would make things really interesting, and having another evolution option would make things more diverse.

Unseen Threat New effect: Evolve Venom Sacs: Kha’Zix’s claws gain a hallucinogenic venom. When Kha’Zix effects an enemy with Unseen Threat, they are considered to be Isolated. Visually, when Unseen Threat is active, his claws drip venom onto the ground, and the glow is now a darker purple.

Again, this is a great idea. Kha struggles against grouped enemies, this would give him some breathing room without being op, as it would still be really risky to dive multiple enemies.

Taste Their Fear Bonus damage to isolated targets increased to 80%, from 30%. Isolated bonus against monsters is still only 30%. Evolved Enlarged Claws: No longer increases the damage of Taste Their Fear. Now causes Taste Their Fear to ignore 50% of an isolated target’s bonus Armor. Now applies full isolation bonus to jungle monsters.

This is interesting. I like the armor penetration idea, especially if the pbe changes to armor penetration items go live. I was thinking about making his evolved Q ignore minions for isolation, but only after a certain point of the game (level 11?). The opposite of evolving the Passive, it would really make him a threat to any enemy that is without their team, like splitpushers. Turrets would not be affected by this change though, as it would be too oppressive.

Void Spikes Evolved Spike Racks: Multiple explosions now heal Kha’Zix for more, but additional explosions only heal for 30% of normal. Void Spikes now applies Life Steal.

Not really sure about this. I can see your logic about it though. What I propose instead is removing the extra projectiles and adding some new effects to targets hit: reveal them for 2 seconds, slow them for the duration, and if you deal damage to them with a spell or attack during that period, the slow is refreshed (up to 5 seconds total slow, if you hit them enough). This would solidify his W as a tool to find and mark your target, and then devour them, and as a chasing tool (no running away from this bug!).

Leap Range increased to 750, from 600. Evolved Wings: Extra range reduced to 850, from 900. Now causes Leap to deal double damage against minions and monsters.

I like the reduction of the distance gap between base and evolved, it would open up more options. The double damage is a great idea to let us isolate them easier. I believe that my Q change is good but this is also a neat way.

Void Assault Evolved Active Camouflage: No longer increases stealth duration. Stealth from Void Assault is immune to True Sight.

This is exactly what is needed. As a 1 second stealth it wouldn't be OP by any means. It needs a bit more though, because it is still not as attractive as the other options.

Oblivianos1 votes

tbh your idea on the passive applying a venom that forces isolation damage is nice but then you can not have an 80% isolation damage up from 30% on Q because it would be op if u think about it. your first hit applies it, but you can reapply it using your ultimate 2-3 more times . that's 3-4 isolation procs . assuming the debuff lasts 2.5 seconds and you have 30%-40% cdr (easy with warrior if jungling, plus cleaver plus ghostblade or death's dance or ionian boots or runes) then your Q cd is around 2.1- 1.8 seconds. So at best 2 Qs per proc for 4 procs that's 8 times you deal that 80% bonus damage. with armor pen or armor reduction then even tanks would melt.

i like your heal more idea on W but not the lifesteal part ( doesn't make sense to apply on-hit effects )

his E has been buffed since the time you posted so that's moot.

I agree with the true-sight immunity on his ultimate but disagree on the reduction on evolved stealth you suggest. it's actually annoying to be revealed by rengar ult or sweeper trinkets when you are supposedly jumping from our world to the void and then back . thematically/lore-wise it isn't a cheap optical illusion like shaco's/wukong's/eve/leblanc's/twitch's invisibility. but the true sight immunity would be deemed op and they would have to cut down on his power elsewhere ( power budget is what would keep your 80% isolation bonus + isolation from poison and/or lifesteal/on-hit from W )

PS i would like to be able to evolve all my abilities and not be forced to choose one not to be evolved. viktor can upgrade all four so maybe give evolution points at 6/11/16/18 ?? or the last one could be automatically like viktor's?? evolving at lvl1 is kinda op and doesn't fit the evolution theme. at level 1 you are just a weak alien bug . you haven't spent time consuming stuff and adapting/evolving yet . also lvl1 evolving W would give him crazy aoe/clear speed)

Teridax683 votes

This is a very well-written post, and I agree with the huge majority of it. Kha's current evolution system is precarious and is pretty much doomed to make one option practically never see play until he gets rebalanced. His Isolation mechanic is also tremendously binary in a manner that may be good for his potential victims (it teaches players how to group up to avoid getting picked off one by one, and so provides a good point of learning/mastery), but disempowering to Kha himself, as he feels screwed over by situations he doesn't have much control over. By contrast, successful situational effects tend to give power that doesn't make or break the base kit (Azir doesn't depend on his turret in most situations, for example), or aren't excessively punishing if they don't happen perfectly (e.g. Fiora's Vitals, which don't lock her out for too long if they pop up in the wrong direction in lane).

I'm not a Kha'Zix main, so take the suggestions below with a grain of salt, but here's what I think could be added to your list of changes, though as with the above these changes don't have to be implemented together:

  1. Give Kha'Zix access to all of his evolutions over the course of a single match: the "easy" solution to Kha never putting an evolution to use would be to give him access to potentially all of them within a single match. Not only would this allow even the least popular evolutions to see play, it would also allow for much greater power differentials between effects, which would no longer be competing with each other for raw strength, and therefore perhaps allow for each evolution to be more situational. Viktor does this pretty well with his own system: even though E is by far the best ability to augment first in most situations, augmenting Q and W both have valid strategic niches and eventually get picked as well.
  2. Remove W's multiple spikes, make it isolate targets on direct hit instead: Evolved W routinely gets complained about by Riot whenever it becomes too good, i.e. when it becomes sufficiently strong to provide good waveclear and poke, and the multi-target effect itself does not lend itself completely to Kha's assassination pattern. Making it isolate targets instead would not only add power that would sync better with his playstyle by offering strength that would only realize itself by diving in, but would also allow him to control his Isolation mechanic better, while still having it become weaker against groups (the "special" isolation could be dodged or body-blocked by tanks), though not with its current degree of binariness and lack of control.
  3. Shift evolutions' power around and strip evolutions down to one specific, situational effect: A more minor problem with the current evolution system is that, likely by necessity, each evolution provides raw power that's more about making Kha'Zix more powerful overall, rather than catering to specific goals. For example, the reset on takedown on Evolved Wings makes it the perfect choice for a Kha player who really wants to be aggressive and dive in and out of combat, but the increased range means Kha just gets better mobility in general, including more safety. This muddies his evolution choices somewhat and has led to Q and E becoming fixtures due to the raw reliable power they offer. Ideally, evolution should be a strategic choice aiming towards one specific facet of Kha's playstyle (do I want to make risky dives? Do I want to pick off lone targets? Do I want to prime targets for death from a distance? Do I want better maneuverability in fights?), and each choice should be streamlined down to that level. If something's providing reliable power, then it should go to Kha's base kit or be traded in for more situational power, rather than be kept on what are meant to be heavily variable and situation-dependent effects.
  4. Change Kha's evolution point progression to be more enemy-focused: This is something I'm less sure of, and something that would likely go in tandem with #1, but it would probably make sense to make Kha's evolution system more based on taking down high-profile targets, as it would fit his theme better and give him a different kind of control over when he wants to evolve and how. It would also mirror Rengar's Bonetooth Necklace mechanic, and therefore strengthen their thematic ties. A strictly per-level evolution system could work, but considering how Kha's power is meant to be very situational, it would perhaps be even better to go down that path even further and make him more takedown-dependent. It would also likely make his strength more binary as a whole, though that could be offset via shifts in power to give him access to some reliable strengths, such as with #3. Perhaps even the upcoming bounty system could work towards that, by rewarding Kha more for taking down more threatening opponents (e.g. 5 evolution points to evolve one ability, 1 point per bounty tier).
Zatch Nakarie3 votes
  1. Remove W's multiple spikes, make it isolate targets on direct hit instead: Evolved W routinely gets complained about by Riot whenever it becomes too good, i.e. when it becomes sufficiently strong to provide good waveclear and poke, and the multi-target effect itself does not lend itself completely to Kha's assassination pattern. Making it isolate targets instead would not only add power that would sync better with his playstyle by offering power that would only realize itself by diving in, but would also allow him to control his Isolation mechanic better, while still having it become weaker against groups (the "special" isolation could be dodged or body-blocked by tanks), though not with its current degree of binariness.

This is an interesting change, it brings the evolution into power with out it going up in damage. The majority of Kha'zix's damage is locked behind the isolation mechanic. By 50% in some cases, bringing his team fight presence down by a noticeable amount. Being able to isolate a target on command would do wonders for his team fight, not to mention skirmises over the river.

Merxamers1 votes

The W changes are interesting, but remember if you remove his ability to waveclear it will really hurt any chance at laning. If a cleave is added to the evolved Q, like i suggested, it may not be as large of a problem.

Teridax681 votes

On its own, removing his spread-out W would most likely seriously damage his laning, but imo that would just be an opportunity to give Kha'Zix power more relevant to his theme as a dive-heavy assassin, power that he currently cannot access precisely because he can evolve poke and waveclear. Pushing power is not a specialty of assassins, and I don't think it should be that much of an exception for Kha either, as his thing is obliterating isolated targets and not destroying multiple enemies at once. In fact, a constraint like that would probably give him an opportunity to have power no other assassin could have: for example, if he's to remain heavily dependent on Isolation, he could be able to pick off any isolated target, and not just squishies, something you brought up with the W armor shred.

Zatch Nakarie2 votes

I like where you are going with giving his evolution's differentiating characteristics.

  1. This is one I don't really understand; are you simply changing the Q evolution to his R? Then that would make R evolution necessary over Q.

  2. I see no problem with having Tiamat or Ravenouse Hydra being a core item on Kha'zix, mixing that with this evolution might be over kill in the aoe department.

  3. That is a dangerous change, and I don't think we should compensate for season 6 when we are not yet assured what will and won't stay in the game involving items.

  4. I actually like this one, I felt before the damage reduction was alright, just grossly over powered since it was 50% reduction. I wished they would have toned it down (10-15%) rather than removing it all together.

I made a post yesterday with my changes if you wanted to compare them.

Merxamers1 votes

  1. What i meant here was for some of the power (ie. some or all of the isolation bonus damage) be a passive part of his ultimate (he gets it just by hitting level 6). This would be so you wouldn't feel like you HAVE to evolve Q to assassinate people. The evolved Q would keep extra damage, extended AA range, etc.

  2. Tiamat actually won't have the AoE passive anymore, which really hurts the waveclear. Multiple rioters have already mentioned that AD caster junglers will have a hard time of it, so khaz needs the help.

  3. I see the missiles as a way for Kha'zix to be useful when behind; right now, it gives waveclear and a slow, with minimal damage. My proposal would be to add an armor shred to both help his allies and to help him against super tanks and juggernauts. he may have to lose some power for it to be fair (range, the slow, etc.), but i think it could work.

  4. Yeah, the R just needs to be more useful. it's a luxury at best

Hunna8l82 votes

What if instead of armor shred, his W did something disorienting to the target? Like as a corrosive acid type ability?

It could work like the Graves' smoke thing but a skillshot with a mark, like a LeeSin Q, the idea being that it's blinding his opponent, thus making it harder for them to stay with their team. (Like a predators seperate te babies from their mama's so they're defenceless)

You could have acid cover their screen which I think is really unique, think the blooper item from Mario Kart Wii.

You could also have it kinda the opposite of the first idea, let's say there is a Garen and a Jinx if you "blind" the Garen he can't protect the jinx so he no longer effects the isolation range. Thus rendering jinx isolated and vulnerable.

Opinions?

Merxamers2 votes

That could be a cool idea. The range would prob have to be nerfed, though

undesirable team1 votes

dont build tear on khazix mid, he doesnt need it.

Merxamers1 votes

that's what people USED to do; i don't think anyone does it anymore. His missiles were severely nerfed over a year ago, and mid khazix hasn't really been a thing since, as far as i know. I've seen him top a little, but that's because he can utilize the bushes there for his passive.

YumaS2Astral1 votes

{quoted}

that's what people USED to do; i don't think anyone does it anymore. His missiles were severely nerfed over a year ago, and mid khazix hasn't really been a thing since, as far as i know. I've seen him top a little, but that's because he can utilize the bushes there for his passive.

Kha'Zix mid works well against some mages such as Viktor, Karthus, and TwistedFate. The problem is that he is an AD mid laner without waveclear until Ravenous Hydra. Zed is usually a better option for mid because he can waveclear well during the early game, although Kha'Zix tend to be a better performance late game. Also, he is really easy to counter mid. Lulu and Vladimir can make his life a hell not only during the early game, but also during later stages of game.

He theorically works better at top lane, but as long as those guys exist Olaf Darius Fiora Nasus Riven Gnar Malphite Kha'Zix will always be a risky pick for top lane. He should only be used as a counterpick to certain niche champions, such as Hecarim.

Kha'Zix can be used mid and top, but the problem is that he has been largely balanced for the jungle, without taking into consideration that he could also be a laner. I fear that Riot, if they decide to make changes on Kha'Zix, will finally make him completely unviable for lane (just like what they made with Skarner). He could be changed, though, into a late game AD assassin. He already is weak early, giving him a better late will be a good way to go.

Merxamers1 votes

Interesting; i haven't seen Khazix mid in a LONG time. He does struggle a bit in lane, and i'm honestly worried about his new jungle clear (the removal of rangers trailblazer will hurt A LOT), so we'll just have to wait and see :P

YumaS2Astral1 votes

{quoted}

Interesting; i haven't seen Khazix mid in a LONG time. He does struggle a bit in lane, and i'm honestly worried about his new jungle clear (the removal of rangers trailblazer will hurt A LOT), so we'll just have to wait and see :P

Sometimes I use Kha'Zix mid against the aforementioned champions, or in normal games just to have fun. Having that said I rarely use him outside of those situations due to how easy he is to counter in lane. And even when he goes to his mid/late game, he is an AD champion. Using him will risk your team lacking a magic damage source.

Variks the Loyal1 votes

The armor shred on Q won't effect his squishy killing at all. It only works on bonus Armor, which, an ADC might have 9 bonus Armor. It's meant to let him fight enemies who've specifically built Armor, but if that's not needed, then he can pass the evolution up.

If they made it so he could cast Spikes mid leap again, then you're right, the Armor Shred would be a much better addition. I wouldn't remove the slow, though. That allows Kha'Zix to kite, and lets him fit as an Assassin in a disengage comp with his Spike Racks.

If Kha'Zix can force isolation, by any means, his teamfighting would be a lot more powerful. The main drawback is that he would be jumping headlong into a team during a teamfight, ripe for the stunning by a support or tank, easily picked off. It would make Assassinating during a teamfight possible, but not easy, since, of course, he's extremely squishy.

I think pre-season will treat him well, particularly the Maw of Malmortius buff and the addition of Lord Dominik's Regards.

YumaS2Astral1 votes

{quoted}

The armor shred on Q won't effect his squishy killing at all. It only works on bonus Armor, which, an ADC might have 9 bonus Armor. It's meant to let him fight enemies who've specifically built Armor, but if that's not needed, then he can pass the evolution up.

If they made it so he could cast Spikes mid leap again, then you're right, the Armor Shred would be a much better addition. I wouldn't remove the slow, though. That allows Kha'Zix to kite, and lets him fit as an Assassin in a disengage comp with his Spike Racks.

If Kha'Zix can force isolation, by any means, his teamfighting would be a lot more powerful. The main drawback is that he would be jumping headlong into a team during a teamfight, ripe for the stunning by a support or tank, easily picked off. It would make Assassinating during a teamfight possible, but not easy, since, of course, he's extremely squishy.

I think pre-season will treat him well, particularly the Maw of Malmortius buff and the addition of Lord Dominik's Regards.

But now Kha'Zix lost an important source of waveclear. Before, you were able to just buy Tiamat, you didn't neeeded to upgrade it to Ravenous Hydra until a certain point in the game. Now to have waveclear, you are required to upgrade it to Ravenous Hydra as fast as possible. This will affect Kha'Zix's early game performance, because not only he will not have waveclear for a while (when compared to now) but he will not be able to rush armor penetration items faster.

Merxamers1 votes

Ugh, the Tiamat nerf SUCKS for Kha'zix. Rengar too.

Variks the Loyal1 votes

{quoted}

But now Kha'Zix lost an important source of waveclear. Before, you were able to just buy Tiamat, you didn't neeeded to upgrade it to Ravenous Hydra until a certain point in the game. Now to have waveclear, you are required to upgrade it to Ravenous Hydra as fast as possible. This will affect Kha'Zix's early game performance, because not only he will not have waveclear for a while (when compared to now) but he will not be able to rush armor penetration items faster.

Hmm, know what, I hadn't thought of that.

At least it's cheaper? Tiamat, at least.

I think he may be able to put it off for a while, though. One of the things that makes Hydra good on Kha is that he can use the Crescent while Leaping, and the damage applies at where he will land. Maybe he can put it off until later, rushing Maw of Malmortius, Youmuu's Ghostblade, Dominik's Regards, or Mortal Reminder beforehand.

YumaS2Astral1 votes

{quoted}

Hmm, know what, I hadn't thought of that.

At least it's cheaper? Tiamat, at least.

I think he may be able to put it off for a while, though. One of the things that makes Hydra good on Kha is that he can use the Crescent while Leaping, and the damage applies at where he will land. Maybe he can put it off until later, rushing Maw of Malmortius, Youmuu's Ghostblade, Dominik's Regards, or Mortal Reminder beforehand.

I actually like the new Death's Dance (I think that's the name): it is essentially an AD item 3152 and Kha'Zix is almost entirely caster based. His Q is single-targeted so it will take full advantage of the healing component. I think that it will be a worthy replacement for Ravenous Hydra because spellvamp >>> lifesteal on Kha'Zix, but there was never a good spellvamp item for him because all spellvamp items were AP oriented. So Kha'Zix was always forced to use lifesteal items to have sustain, but they require him to auto-attack, something that he rarely does during a spell rotation.

Felvyne1 votes

Can't coment on the Q/isolation idea. Can be good, can be monstruous, but... can't say, I haven't played him enough for this.

However, about the W and R... I think that W as armor pen. wouldn't be the correct bonus. Q is dmg, E is mobility, R (imo) is durability, and W is chase. W could be make it unblocable by minion/monster (piercing misile, but that loses dmg per target hit) that has better range (a lot), slows a bit and gives vision. And the R... I would LOVE if, as well as the dmg reduction (or instead) would eliminate the inner CD to reactivate (and would be a plus if worked with charges, but maybe as it is now it's better)

Merxamers1 votes

i mostly agree, though i see W as "utility", ie. what Kha'zix brings to the team even if behind. I agree that the missiles could be a bit more interesting.

junglerboy161 votes

I think that the counterplay his Q offers is extremely healthy. You stick in a group, you stay safe from the scary assassin, simple as that.

That said, I think he is handicapped too much by having all of his damage tied to his isolated Q. Having it be linked to his Q evolution isn't a bad thing, but having his evolved Q make his play pattern that much more binary (if isolated, you murder anything, if not isolated, you do jack) is inherently unhealthy.

I think the best way for his evolutions to be changed would be to give each a defining trait that distinguishes them from everything else i.e. execute damage on Q (even though he doesn't have it currently), mobility reset on E, Utility and team fight strength on W, Slipperiness and evasion on R, and then on top of that, have each give an additional effect that changes his play style in a similar way but isn't linked to the specific ability you evolve.

For example:

  • Evolved Q would be the damage evolution. If you went for this, you would gain kit wide bonuses like "all abilities benefit from isolation % bonus damage" or a more simple base damage boost.
  • Evolved W would be the utility evolution. If you went for this, you would gain things like "damaging an enemy makes them remain visible for x seconds after" or "proccing your passive reduces your ability cooldowns by x amount."
  • Evolved E would be the mobility/range evolution. If you went for this, you would gain advantages to your threat area like "all abilities have increased range" or possibly more complex versions like "hitting enemies with W or E reduces their isolation range by X amount for a few seconds."
  • Evolved R would be the evasion/survivability evolution. If you went for this, you'd gain bonuses like "Leaping while stealthed extends the stealth for an additional second" or "landing a Q or W from stealth causes Kha'zix to retain his MS bonus for a couple seconds after breaking stealth.

Now of course these ideas are super rough, but the idea is still there. If giving specific bonuses to all of his abilities for evolving a specific ability is to imbalanced, then a simpler stat bonus would also be effective (i.e. Q gives you +AD per level, W gives you plus mana per level, E gives you CDR per level, etc., the possibilities are pretty broad).

Das Kappatal1 votes

Thanks for posting this - while I'm not a particularly big fan of your ideas, which I'll go into below, I do think you're spot-on about Kha'zix feeling forced into taking Q and E in order to be effective.

  1. Move some or all of his Q-evolution 'isolation damage' to a passive on his ultimate.

To be honest, Kha'zix's ultimate is already a very complex ability. I don't think it should have another passive baked into it. However, I do think moving some power from his Q-evolution onto his current passive would be a good idea. More on that when I talk about my ideas.

  1. His evolved Q should add a "cleave" to his Q and AAs.

So, uh, the reason Tiamat and Hydra are so good on Kha is that they increase his clear speed, in addition to the active for assassination. If you give him a cleave on his Q, it'll just cement it as his best choice for evolution, which it already is. :/

And to be honest, Kha without isolation can still clean up against low-health targets - his abilities just do 'decent' damage rather than 'jesus christ where did my health bar go' damage. His E (and W) should be his 'cleanup' evolution options, in my opinion, since they let him chase his targets down more effectively.

  1. Give his W (missiles) armor shred.

I'm not opposed to the idea on the surface, but I'm worried that sticking too much utility on Kha's W will lead to the return of the Season 4 Kha'zix, in which he maxed, evolved, and spammed W from 1000 range for the entire game. It wasn't fun to play or play against in my opinion.

  1. Add "AoE Damage Reduction While Invisible" to the evolved R.

This one I can actually kinda get behind, since it'd let him wade through teamfights a bit more effectively without preventing the enemy ADC/assassin blowing him up. I don't know how big the numbers would have to be for it to function, but I like the idea.

Now, to throw my ideas in the ring:

Passive - Increase the damage Unseen Threat deals to an isolated target by some amount, and reduce the increased damage evolved isolated Q deals by around the same amount. I'd spitball about ~10 damage per level on each, so that his passive does 25-370 damage to isolated targets and 15-190 on targets that aren't isolated, while removing the damage per level scaling on his Q. (For what it's worth, evolving Q still increases the bonus AD ratio on it from 156% to 260% even without the increased base damage.)

Q - As above, remove the damage per level scaling on evolved Q and shift its power on to his passive.

W - Unevolved Void Spikes now apply Unseen Threat instead of slowing naturally, with their damage adjusted to compensate. (They still slow, since Unseen Threat slows.) Evolved W (in addition to making it fire three projectiles) increases the slow from Unseen Threat to 50% - both from basic attacks and Void Spikes themselves - and makes Unseen Threat grant vision to targets hit by it.

This change retains Kha's identity as an assassin when he evolves W, but gives him better chasing potential. However, it provides more counterplay to him using it to poke, by reducing the damage when Unseen Threat isn't applied - so only one target takes maximum damage, and if they have vision on Kha, his next round of Void Spikes won't apply Unseen Threat's damage and slow.

E - No changes.

R - Evolved R makes Kha'zix take 40% reduced damage from Area of Effect damage while stealthed. Evolved R removes the cooldown between each cast of Void Assault.

Evolving R makes Kha'zix less of a threat against your typical ADC or single-target assassin, in exchange for improving his survivability against mages and tanks. Removing the cooldown between Void Assault casts is meant to make fighting Kha terrifying - none of the invisible champs in League feel legitimately scary, in my opinion. Rengar just deletes you, Twitch either deletes you or gets deleted, and Evelynn's just frustrating. This change lets a Kha'zix that evolves R really feel like he's a predator stalking down his prey, while the enemy knows they're being chased but doesn't know if or when he's coming back.

Merxamers3 votes

the point of moving some of the power of the Q passive would be so that Q isn't a 'must evolve'. It would have some AoE, true, but it wouldn't have the massive damage bonus it currently has on live; that would come from levels of the ultimate. with the nerf to tiamat, and the trouble he has against a pair of targets/target+minion, he could use the bit of help. Numbers could be tweeked so it sin't overpowered.

My goal was for W evolution to be more utility; the armor shred would come at the cost of most of the damage (it sets up the damage, rather than dealing it), and possibly some range. It is doubtful this would result in the return of missile-spam khazix

Zatch Nakarie2 votes

Passive - Increase the damage Unseen Threat deals to an isolated target by some amount, and reduce the increased damage evolved isolated Q deals by around the same amount. I'd spitball about ~10 damage per level on each, so that his passive does 25-370 damage to isolated targets and 15-190 on targets that aren't isolated, while removing the damage per level scaling on his Q. (For what it's worth, evolving Q still increases the bonus AD ratio on it from 156% to 260% even without the increased base damage.)

That might increase his initial burst but you run into the same problem, the damage is still locked behind isolation. This change might even lower is over all dps since he requires his ultimate to get successful applications of his passive which now holds his damage which could be detrimental if a pink ward sees him while a team fight takes place. Not saying there should not be counterplay to stealth but damage shouldn't be avoidable (heh) simply because they can see him restricting access to his passive.

W - Unevolved Void Spikes now apply Unseen Threat instead of slowing naturally, with their damage adjusted to compensate. (They still slow, since Unseen Threat slows.) Evolved W (in addition to making it fire three projectiles) increases the slow from Unseen Threat to 50% - both from basic attacks and Void Spikes themselves - and makes Unseen Threat grant vision to targets hit by it.

This might be a direct return of release Kha'zix. The live version already has your proposed 50% slow and grants vision. Making the slow and damage reliant on his passive seems to turn Kha into a poke champion once again and seems to directly conflict with your stated Q changes above.

E - No changes.

Agreed

R - Evolved R makes Kha'zix take 40% reduced damage from Area of Effect damage while stealthed. Evolved R removes the cooldown between each cast of Void Assault.

Damage reduction; this is the idea that has been kicked around the most and seems to be what every one comes back to for his evolved ultimate. I love the idea but at this point its just a numbers game, Kha'zix would benefit from his ult providing damage reduction but it needed to be toned down rather than removed. Even 10% would have been nice, or as some players have mentioned, I-frames would have worked as well.

Heres my plan if you are interested.

R Void Assault PASSIVE: Each rank in Void Assault allows Kha'Zix to evolve one of his abilities, granting it additional effects. ACTIVE: Kha'Zix enters stealth for 1 second, acquiring Unseen Unseen Threat, gaining 40% bonus movement speed and ignoring unit collision while stealthed. New: Passive "Preferred Prey" After Kha'zix enters stealth, his passive Unseen Threat is exchanged for Preferred Prey. The first champion struck by Kha'zix's basic auto attack or Q marks them as Preferred Prey. Preferred Prey applies a larger slow and damage than Unseen Threat but also applies a debuff that increases damage taken from Kha'zix's Q's by 20% (For comparison isolation increases damage by 30%).

Explanation Isolation locks Kha'zix's damage to a minimum in team fights, making him 50% less effective should he be denied isolation damage. This allows Kha'zix to have an impactful teamfight presence even if he is denied isolation. (Isolation damage will replace the preferred prey debuff should the target become isolated, no stacking). It also opens the path for other evolutions since you will not need to evolve Q simply to stay in the game.

R EVOLVED ACTIVE CAMOUFLAGE: Void Assault can be cast a total of 3 times and each instance grants 2 seconds of stealth. New: Kha'zix leaves behind an image of himself that follows the last movement command issued. Image lasts 0.75 seconds and has 1 Hp.

Explanation This is an inherently defensive evolution, letting you have that extra second of stealth to safe your life or allow you to switch targets. This change will allow Kha'zix to outplay his opponents rather than hitting R and hoping to outrun or out damage his opponent to stay alive. It opens bait options for Kha'zix as well, ulting an image in and running away, drawing out ultimates or heavy CC so his team can counter engage.

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