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Why are all the Noxians so Homogenous?

Merxamers··30 votes·7,326 views

The Riot lore team has stated repeatedly that Noxians aren't meant to be the 'bad guys' of Runeterra, and a key part of their social structure is that anyone can advance to positions of authority through displayed competence, regardless of background. However, this does not hold up when one actually looks at the Noxian champions.

Let's list the champions from Noxus (or affiliated with the nation at some point) real quick: Cassiopeia Darius Draven Katarina Leblanc Riven Singed Sion Swain Talon Urgot Vladimir

Notice a similarity between them?

On one had, the varyious champion lores indicate that many of these champions rose from humble beginnings to become respected mass murderers (Swain, Darius, Draven, Riven, SInged, etc.), but if background truly doesn't matter, where are the nonhuman, or even non-white Noxians? It would be one thing if Noxus was just a city where everyone happened to look the same (unlikely), but Noxus has military and political influence over much of runeterra. If the Roman empire easily incorporated Gauls, Africans, Persians, and other various peoples into their armies, why can't Noxus? Otherwise, Noxus comes across just like the Empire from Star Wars, just with more women.

All i'm saying is if Demacia can have Poppy, Shyvana, and XinZhao to break up the monotony, it would be nice to see the same from Noxus. Maybe someone who looks Ionian? A creature whose species is from Targon? Heck, why not a Yordle?! I'd love to read about a yordle who somehow ends up in the Noxus military.

PS: It is nice to see Noxus give so many opportunities to the disabled (Cassiopeia Sion Urgot )

108 Comments

Sneak Dog26 votes

Noxus is actually quite xenophobic. They'll treat unproven yordles significantly worse than unproven men. After proving themselves competent or intimidating they'll be treated with some respect (not sure if there's still discrimination after proving themselves).

This means that non-human noxians will have seen the worst Noxus has to offer. They can still climb up in rank as such is the Noxian ideal. Anyone can work their way up if they are strong (or rather, competent).

The roman empire just assimilated any other country in their empire and stole anything from their culture they thought useful to have. I don't think it's entirely fair to compare Noxus and Rome honestly, they are very different.

I'd like Noxus to be portrayed a bit more like 'strength above all' (though really it's more like 'competence above all' I believe, ah well) and less evil and honourless. Perhaps it's just Darkwills legacy. He happily cooperated with the ethicless Singed during the Ionian invasion. We haven't seen much from Swain safe for his grand scheme at Kalamanda.

Merxamers2 votes

good points, and worth considering. I used Rome as an example of 'militaristic and imperialistic empire with control over many various cultures and regions', not necessarily as a direct parallel.

Where is it stated that Noxus is xenophobic, the JoJ?

Sharjo8 votes

I don't know specifically where it's stated that Noxus is quite Xenophobic, but Alistar stands as testament to it.

Ebonmaw Dragon8 votes

{quoted} I don't know specifically where it's stated that Noxus is quite Xenophobic, but Alistar stands as testament to it.

It was officially started in the old website of League Of Legends.

They are racist against Non-Humans

However, there are yordles living at Noxus acording to the old JoJ... even if they are not well... read the article:

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/The_Journal_of_Justice:_Volume_1,_Issue_02

League Champion KatarinaSquare.png Katarina, speaking on behalf of Noxus, denied that the Witherwood report was ever made. She added, "Noxus has always treated every contributing member as fairly as they deserve. Really, would any Noxian official even leak such an absurd story to the news, or expect to live if he did? Instead of repeating obvious Demacian lies, any yordles afraid their people are being mistreated in Noxus should sign up for our northern barbarian-pacification campaign to remind us how clever those little hands are in aiming a weapon."

So.... even if they are racist against non humans, there could be a yordle adc champion from Noxus in the future(?)

Gentleman Gaston2 votes

I'd like Noxus to be portrayed a bit more like 'strength above all' (though really it's more like 'competence above all' I believe, ah well) and less evil and honourless.

I've always seen it as "Ambition will be rewarded". If you want something hard enough and do anything, and I mean anything, to get it than Noxus will reward you. This is how someone like Swain, who is physically crippled, could become the leader of the entire state.

FiendOfOne17 votes

I love how you counted Sion as 'disabled.' I suppose death is kind of a disability.

Sharjo6 votes

He is inhibited by prosthetics!

Centuros6 votes

He also only has one foot as of he rework.

Rainbowgasm1 votes

{quoted} I love how you counted Sion as 'disabled.' I suppose death is kind of a disability.

Don't forget their leader, Swain is crippled too.

BlackSunNocturne4 votes

{quoted} Don't forget their leader, Swain is crippled too.

He's faking it. Tyrant Swain (his current appearance in Lore) he doesn't have the limp.

Matezoide2 votes

Wow wow, wait, what?

Got something that reveals Tyrant Swain is his current appearance? I never heard of that before.

As for his faking, his dance also shows that.

Sybil Cut4 votes

I'm not certain that he actually feels pain. Apparently the deal with his "disability" is that he walked into a clinic with a broken leg, bones protruding, asked for a cane, and left when he got it. That's all. [citation needed]

The final Journal of Justice said that Swain was promoted to some really high rank [citation needed], which was timed with his skin release, so it's assumed that Tyrant Swain is his canon "look" until otherwise stated. That said, why on earth has Swain not been given a visual rework? Or at least a gameplay update? His kit says nothing about "master tactician" to me and just screams "laserbird"

DarkerGrey2 votes

Being part of the High Noxian Command includes many benefits, one of them being better health care.

BlackSunNocturne13 votes

If we're looking at Noxus as a whole Alignment from a D&D Perspective, they're actually more like True Neutral going into Neutral Evil at some points. Demacia is a weird combination of Chaotic good and Neutral Evil (Serious, Demacia is a Fascist State and Noxus is a Meritocracy. Both would not work IRL, as proven by history).

The Alignments of the Champs shown run the gamut of the Law/Chaotic Good/Evil spectrum too. Cassiopeia: Chaotic Neutral/Evil Darius: EXTREME Lawful Neutral, sliding closely to Lawful Evil Draven: The EPITOME of Chaotic Neutral Katarina: Lawful Neutral/Evil Leblanc: Neutral Evil Riven: Lawful Evil (Formerly when she was serving Noxus)/True Neutral (currently) Singed: Chaotic Neutral/Evil Sion: Neutral Evil Swain: Lawful Neutral/Evil Talon: Lawful Neutral Urgot: Lawful/Chaotic Neutral Vladimir: Chaotic Neutral

So if we're going to assume Noxus' alignment as a whole is represented by their champions in-game, it's firmly in the "Neutral" sections.

Merxamers4 votes

i love the thought put into this, but i disagree with many of these being 'neutral';

Draven gets his kicks from executing prisoners who think they can escape; if that's not chaotic evil, then i don't know what else can possibly be such

i have similar arguments for others, but i guess it comes down to how we define evil and neutral. Here's how a guide i found (unofficial though it may be) defines alignments: (http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/63396)

"Good vs. Evil

Good implies altruism, respect for life and a concern for the wellbeing and dignity of other sentient beings. Good characters will make sacrifices for others even if it causes them hurt.

Evil on the other hand is about pain--hurting, oppressing and killing others; whether for sport or simply a lack of compassion.

Neutral characters, on the other hand, have some doubts about killing the innocent but often lack the convictions needed to make sacrifices to protect those around them, unless that someone is a person the individual has a close relationship with--friend, family member, love. "

I do agree that the contrast between Demacia's monarchy that approaches fascism and Noxus's brutal Meritocracy is fascinating and ripe for storytelling, and would be the linchpin in the argument "Demacians aren't necessarily the good guys, and Noxians aren't necessarily the bad guys". I hope this is expanded on soon :P

BlackSunNocturne5 votes

{quoted} i love the thought put into this, but i disagree with many of these being 'neutral';

Draven gets his kicks from executing prisoners who think they can escape; if that's not chaotic evil, then i don't know what else can possibly be such

I do agree that the contrast between Demacia's monarchy that approaches fascism and Noxus's brutal Meritocracy is fascinating and ripe for storytelling, and would be the linchpin in the argument "Demacians aren't necessarily the good guys, and Noxians aren't necessarily the bad guys". I hope this is expanded on soon :P

Draven however, cares ONLY for himself.

"A chaotic neutral character follows his whims. He is an individualist first and last. He values his own liberty but doesn't strive to protect others' freedom. He avoids authority, resents restrictions, and challenges traditions. A chaotic neutral character does not intentionally disrupt organizations as part of a campaign of anarchy. To do so, he would have to be motivated either by good (and a desire to liberate others) or evil (and a desire to make those different from himself suffer). A chaotic neutral character may be unpredictable, but his behavior is not totally random. He is not as likely to jump off a bridge as to cross it.

Chaotic neutral characters like to indulge in everything. This is the insurgent, the con-man, gambler, and high roller; the uncommitted freebooter seeking nothing more than self-gratification. This type of character will at least consider doing anything if they can find enjoyment or amusement. Life has meaning, but theirs has the greatest meaning. According to chaotic neutrals, laws and rules infringe on personal freedom and were meant to be broken. This character is always looking for the best deal, and will work with good, neutral, or evil to get it; as long as he comes out of the situation on top. The chaotic neutral is constantly teetering between good and evil, rebelling, and bending the law to fit his needs.

The following actions are honorable for this alignment: Dirty Fighting Fleeing a battle that's obviously going poorly Gloating over a victory Perpetrate humiliating prank on enemy Refusing a fair contest/challenge Taunting an enemy into fighting Walking away from a challenge

The following actions are dishonorable for this alignment: Allowing a disarmed enemy to pick up his weapon Allowing the enemy to attack first Being taken prisoner Killing a host who has provided you food or shelter Refusing medical treatment for the good of the party Surrendering Treason"

Most of that SCREAMS Draven.

Merxamers2 votes

fair enough; i stand corrected. alignments seem to be tricky and open to interpretation

Sozan58 votes

{quoted} i love the thought put into this, but i disagree with many of these being 'neutral';

Draven gets his kicks from executing prisoners who think they can escape; if that's not chaotic evil, then i don't know what else can possibly be such

i have similar arguments for others, but i guess it comes down to how we define evil and neutral. Here's how a guide i found (unofficial though it may be) defines alignments: (http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/63396)

"Good vs. Evil

Good implies altruism, respect for life and a concern for the wellbeing and dignity of other sentient beings. Good characters will make sacrifices for others even if it causes them hurt.

Evil on the other hand is about pain--hurting, oppressing and killing others; whether for sport or simply a lack of compassion.

Neutral characters, on the other hand, have some doubts about killing the innocent but often lack the convictions needed to make sacrifices to protect those around them, unless that someone is a person the individual has a close relationship with--friend, family member, love. "

I do agree that the contrast between Demacia's monarchy that approaches fascism and Noxus's brutal Meritocracy is fascinating and ripe for storytelling, and would be the linchpin in the argument "Demacians aren't necessarily the good guys, and Noxians aren't necessarily the bad guys". I hope this is expanded on soon :P

Yeah, but I wouldn't call prisoners on a death row to be "innocents" either. You can't call someone evil just because he is an executioner. And mind you that while Draven made a sport/show out of the killing, he wasn't "killing for sport". He was killing because those were his orders/duty (as a soldier and later on as an executioner) and he made a show out of it to become famous.

Also, as a small side note - he actually gave those prisoners a chance, compared to what they would have with regular executioners. Draven certainly isn't good, but he isn't evil either. I think he is just between neutral and evil.

Narasimha13 votes

Draven is nothing but Draven /Draven . How dare you state that Draven could be aligned with anything else other than Draven ? Thats like calling MonkeyKing human Or calling Sion alive Or not calling Teemo the Dark Lord, the Epitomy of Rage and Loathing, He Who Stands Unseen.

Maple Crusader11 votes

Singed is from Zaun, not Noxus.

Merxamers5 votes

{quoted} Singed is from Zaun, not Noxus.

you know something, i told him that but he just ulted and ran under his turret and spammed laugh at me

Aeolian Melodies1 votes

But he works and fights for Noxus, that's like saying that Xin Zhao isn't Demacian because he was not born there.

BlackSunNocturne4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Aeolian Melodies,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=XRwK8x2G,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2014-12-12T21:57:38.978+0000) But he works and fights for Noxus, that's like saying that Xin Zhao isn't Demacian because he was not born there.

Singed is from Zaun and works for whoever pays him, Noxus is paying him nicely. He'd probably work for Demacia if they paid him more, but that'd raise even more questions about Demacia. Xin Zhao is from.... somewhere (I'm guessing Ionia because only Ionians have Asian names) and works for Demacia because he believes he has a debt to them because he was saved by Jarvan II.

Lumus Avatar6 votes

With Zaun by their side, death is merely a temporary inconvenience in Noxus.

Dr Clueless PhD6 votes

By my recollection, some old LoL writings (the JoJ, maybe?) told that Noxus was pretty racist against non-humans. I don't know if I could actually find it again, but I seem to remember reading it at one point.

Rebonack5 votes

See, I always wondered about that when people tried to argue that Noxus wasn't your standard Lawful Evil nation.

The human city-state of Noxus is in many ways the moral antithesis of Demacia; it is a settlement where the physically and mentally strong acquire power through any means, regardless of the consequences to their fellow citizens.

That's pretty much your classic D&D definition of Evil right there. So did Riot just drop the old lore descriptions of Demacia and Noxus in the retcon?

Merxamers5 votes

i don't even know anymore; the only lore for the city states of Runeterra that still exists can only be found in the outdated wiki. The huge mountain shaped like a skull in the middle of their fair city doesn't help, either

Gear Kitty5 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn1VxaMEjRU

The Spoon Dog4 votes

{quoted} See, I always wondered about that when people tried to argue that Noxus wasn't your standard Lawful Evil nation.

That's pretty much your classic D&D definition of Evil right there. So did Riot just drop the old lore descriptions of Demacia and Noxus in the retcon?

It kind of depends where you look. Darius is pretty solidly Lawful Neutral, since his whole goal is to root out corruption and treachery, to ensure that those in charge are actually fit to lead. Compare that to Garen or Xin Zhao, and there's not really anything making Darius more evil than them. There probably aren't too many Good Noxians in power, though I suppose if there were, they'd make a lousy champion, and such, wouldn't be anyone we've heard about. The most skilled and efficient soup kitchen operator wouldn't really do well in the League.

Rebonack2 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Spoon Dog,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=XRwK8x2G,comment-id=00060001,timestamp=2014-12-13T08:07:34.257+0000) It kind of depends where you look. Darius is pretty solidly Lawful Neutral,

The hell are you talking about?

He killed his commanding officer because he thought that a retreat command was cowardly and took his position. That's pretty solidly evil.

I don't think I'd call Draven the most Chaotic Neutral champ in the game while Jinx still exists, but fair point on all.

Are you shitting me?

Have you ever heard her selection quote?

Jinx "Rules are made to be broken! Like buildings... or PEOPLE!"

What kind of fucked up world do you live in where enjoying rampant murder is ethically neutral?

Matezoide4 votes

Riot: Noxians arent the bad guys, guys!

Proceeds to write Noxians as bad guys every single time

m2ua34Hs6j4 votes

I don't agree that just because Noxus is a xenophobic meritocracy it is somehow inherently evil. I would prefer that over a fascist monarchy any day. At least in the xenophobic meritocracy I have a chance no matter what to rise to the top on my capabilities. To me, Demacia represents a worse kind of evil, control.

Xulsigae3 votes

Is there evidence of Demacia being so bad compared to Noxus?

Control isn't inherently bad. Taken to extremes, control is bad as is freedom.

Gapybo2 votes

No Demacia was actually never really portrayed that bad in the lore. It's more of a community construct that didn't want the portrayal of Noxus and Demacia to be so black and white. I guess it caught up.

Xulsigae2 votes

Yeah I get that, but I think it's unfair to say that merely because Demacia is a monarchy and can be strict with its laws it is somehow worse than a place than Noxus, which has public executions as entertainment, champions that espouse killing for fun, is built in the shape of a skull etc. Some how being claimed to be a meritocracy (which it doesn't really show well because there is nobility in it and only those with the strength to kill seem to rise) erases all that. A monarchy isn't automatically bad, see King Arthur and King Boomy and Queen Ashe and such. More a problem of Riot's writing than Demacia.

GreenLore3 votes

Well Morgana actually lives in noxus,but she is up for a complete retcon,so who knows what'll happen.

Anyway I'd really like to see someone non-human who rose through the ranks of noxus and gets as much respect from the noxians as anyone else.

Aeolian Melodies6 votes

inb4 Morg is from fucking Shurima

EVERYTHING IS FROM SHURIMA!!!

Der Lindwurm3 votes

With the way the lore is currently, you've got to love how Morgana decries Kayle's tyranny but then sides with the most tyrannical faction on Runeterra.

Merxamers3 votes

who even knows what Morgana's and Kayle's lore is right now

JoeDerp3 votes

You don't feel a snake lady or an undead mechanical crab man breaks up the monotony?

Merxamers2 votes

nope; she's just the daughter of a noble who had a disfiguring work-related accident, like Urgot

BlackSunNocturne5 votes

{quoted} nope; she's just the daughter of a noble who had a disfiguring work-related accident, like Urgot

I think "being bisected TWICE and killed" is a bit more than a "disfiguring work-related accident" wouldn't you say? Or are you referring to the fact that his hands were already chopped off before that? XD

Merxamers3 votes

to be fair, Urgot had a SEVERE work related accident. But hey, he had a decent workman's comp settlement (nightmarish crab legs and a lifetime of pain).

Gallowgrim8 votes

Urgot was the daughter of a noble? I mean the *noble *part isn't a stretch but...

Merxamers1 votes

lol, you got me. but maybe beneath all that oozing, bloated flesh is a beautiful women, wanting to be loved?

FluxBound5 votes

no one can handle those lumps

Gear Kitty3 votes

I actually fell out of my chair laughing.

You win. I'm not sure what you win at, but you won it good.

Wheatloaf1 votes

Political Correctness doesn't scream "NOXUS" to me.

Merxamers2 votes

true, but IN THEORY, they're 'Equal Opportunity'

Wheatloaf3 votes

Equal opportunity, sure, but you have to fight for your opportunity, and I have a feeling Noxian immigration policy is something along the lines of "If you can make it past our borders without dying, welcome to Noxus!"

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