Can We Change Vayne Even A Little? (Not A QQ Thread)

Roll in Grass··1 votes·410 views

Ello there, I am a Gold 5 (and slowly but surely climbing) Vayne main. Right now, Vayne's in a really good spot; she's not a dominating force like Kalista, yet she's also not completely useless to the team like Miss Fourtune. Last I checked, I believe she's in Tier 1 actually. As well, she has the highest Solo Queue pick rate. My problem isn't about her position in the game (how strong or weak she is), my problem is that the last time we've seen any changes to stats for her was a little more than a year ago in Patch 4.13. The last time we've actually seen anything about her is a little less than a year ago in Patch 4.16, and that was merely a bugfix. It'd be nice to see her in the patch notes again. Vayne's gotten less love than Urgot if you look at all the past Patch changes. Although they've both only been seen in 19 patches (excluding the release patch), Urgot has received a lot more changes than Vayne. I just want to see my favourite champion in the Patch Notes again. Sincerely, Just-Your-Above-Average-Vayne-Main

9 Comments

khorney3 votes

well for starters take away her true damage and just make it magic damage

Roll in Grass1 votes

{quoted}

well for starters take away her true damage and just make it magic damage

That would completely destroy Vayne. Vayne's signature is her true damage, being able to shoot down tanks and hypercarry the late game. Taking away her true damage would take away pretty much everything that is Vayne.

Poptart Evelynn3 votes

"I'm going to say that vayne is in a good spot, not op but not up either, pretty balanced," but for w.e reason I want to see her become op or up in the patch notes.

Yours truly, Fae the Eevee

"Wtf?" Me.

Roll in Grass1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kat for Elo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9Q2ApYT6,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-06-30T05:11:48.497+0000)

"I'm going to say that vayne is in a good spot, not op but not up either, pretty balanced," but for w.e reason I want to see her become op or up in the patch notes.

Yours truly, Fae the Eevee

"Wtf?" Me.

That's not even close to what I said. I said she's not op or up, but I want to see some changes, even a slight tweak like lower her movement speed by 1 unit per second. Like, sometimes Riot will have a champion in the patch notes that has a change that does absolutely nothing whatsoever to the champion's playability. For example, when the patch notes say, "Fixed a bug where the cast range was longer than intended". I just want to see something in the patch notes about her.

Critmaster Garen2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kat for Elo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9Q2ApYT6,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-06-30T05:11:48.497+0000)

"I'm going to say that vayne is in a good spot, not op but not up either, pretty balanced," but for w.e reason I want to see her become op or up in the patch notes.

Yours truly, Fae the Eevee

"Wtf?" Me.

no, no. he said he wanted to see some changes. thats fine. lets change her by nerfing her w.

[{quoted}](name=Fae the Eevee,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9Q2ApYT6,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-06-30T05:25:11.512+0000)

That would completely destroy Vayne. Vayne's signature is her true damage, being able to shoot down tanks and hypercarry the late game. Taking away her true damage would take away pretty much everything that is Vayne.

its also utterly and complete bullshit. not even irelia has max % health true damage on top of the flat value. the moment they give a steroid to a ranged carry, that would have belonged on a melee carry. wouldnt be the only time though, considering kallista exists.

Roll in Grass1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9Q2ApYT6,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2015-06-30T05:26:21.653+0000)

no, no. he said he wanted to see some changes. thats fine. lets change her by nerfing her w.

its also utterly and complete bullshit. not even irelia has max % health true damage on top of the flat value. the moment they give a steroid to a ranged carry, that would have belonged on a melee carry. wouldnt be the only time though, considering kallista exists.

You have a point, but let me correct a few marginal errors. Riot never gives melee as much as they give ranged. Take the 1st tier of offense talents, for example. Riot gives 1.5% bonus damage to ranged, but only 1% bonus damage to melee. Ranged are meant to be stronger than melee in damage output, but Riot balances this by giving fancy things to melee kits that provide outplay potential to ranged champion. Some of these "fancy things" include gap closers, executes, crowd control, etc; things Riot doesn't give as much of to ranged champions. So it's completely reasonable for Vayne's true damage to be higher than Irelia's. Steroids like % health damage do not belong on melee carries; imagine how broken that would be on an assassin. Take Irelia, for example. She's a dominating force in the toplane and proceeds to do well into the mid and late game. She is extremely unfun to play against due to having a combination of every type of kit: melee and ranged, assassin and tank, magic, physical and true damage. Melee champions and ranged champions have a separate role. Notice that there are other champions that have a similar ability to Vayne's W. Off of the top of my head: Kalista's Rend, Twitch's Expunge, Varus's Blighted Quiver, Gnar's Hyper, etc. You may say that these all use physical or magic damage, so it makes it balanced. Well, it's not all about one spell; a champion's kit is what determines if a champion's balanced or not. As well, Kalista's Rend can do more damage than smite by a longshot, and can be used on champions. So, yes, you do raise good points, but there are other aspects about the game that make Vayne a balanced champion. As well, Vayne requires a lot of skill, especially compared to other AD Carries. She's one of the only 5 AD Carries that can pull off a 1v4 or 1v5 if the summoner is good enough on them.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fae the Eevee,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9Q2ApYT6,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2015-06-30T05:43:16.360+0000)

You have a point, but let me correct a few marginal errors. Riot never gives melee as much as they give ranged. Take the 1st tier of offense talents, for example. Riot gives 1.5% bonus damage to ranged, but only 1% bonus damage to melee. Ranged are meant to be stronger than melee in damage output, but Riot balances this by giving fancy things to melee kits that provide outplay potential to ranged champion. Some of these "fancy things" include gap closers, executes, crowd control, etc; things Riot doesn't give as much of to ranged champions. So it's completely reasonable for Vayne's true damage to be higher than Irelia's. Steroids like % health damage do not belong on melee carries; imagine how broken that would be on an assassin. Take Irelia, for example. She's a dominating force in the toplane and proceeds to do well into the mid and late game. She is extremely unfun to play against due to having a combination of every type of kit: melee and ranged, assassin and tank, magic, physical and true damage. Melee champions and ranged champions have a separate role. Notice that there are other champions that have a similar ability to Vayne's W. Off of the top of my head: Kalista's Rend, Twitch's Expunge, Varus's Blighted Quiver, Gnar's Hyper, etc. You may say that these all use physical or magic damage, so it makes it balanced. Well, it's not all about one spell; a champion's kit is what determines if a champion's balanced or not. As well, Kalista's Rend can do more damage than smite by a longshot, and can be used on champions. So, yes, you do raise good points, but there are other aspects about the game that make Vayne a balanced champion. As well, Vayne requires a lot of skill, especially compared to other AD Carries. She's one of the only 5 AD Carries that can pull off a 1v4 or 1v5 if the summoner is good enough on them.

youre wrong

Double-Edged Sword melee - deal an additional 2% damage and receive an additional 1% damage ranged - deal an additional 1.5% damage and receive anadditional 1.5% damage

melee carries do the same thing ranged carries do, just by actually putting themselves at risk instead of hiding behind a support.

yi, yasuo, fiora, tryn. thats why they usually have more, or at least SHOULD have more than their ranged counterparts. which isnt true anymore (except for yasuo).

even yi doesnt get max % health true damage. and gets a small flat amount for a limited duration instead.

Roll in Grass1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9Q2ApYT6,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2015-06-30T06:07:55.453+0000)

youre wrong melee - deal an additional 2% damage and receive an additional 1% damage ranged - deal an additional 1.5% damage and receive anadditional 1.5% damage

melee carries do the same thing ranged carries do, just by actually putting themselves at risk instead of hiding behind a support.

yi, yasuo, fiora, tryn. thats why they usually have more, or at least SHOULD have more than their ranged counterparts. which isnt true anymore (except for yasuo).

even yi doesnt get max % health true damage. and gets a small flat amount for a limited duration instead.

Oh, my bad I misread the mastery, but that doesn't make me entirely wrong; it just makes me wrong in that sense. Melee, indeed, should NOT have more than their ranged counterparts. Honestly, look how often Tryndamere, Fiora, Yasuo, and Master Yi are ever picked anymore. There are many other melee champions that get the job done better than these four that are programmed as melee champions should be. Look at all four of those champions; they build AD Carry items, but they're melee champions, which is why they aren't played; There should only be one AD Carry on the team (in most cases) and that's the ranged carry at botlane. There are rare cases where Varus mid is taken against champions that have mobility based abilities (Riven's Q and E, Vayne's Q, etc.), or Ezreal mid is taken against champions that have lots of or very large gapclosers, but for the most part there should only be one AD Carry on the team. I forgot where, but I read somewhere that Riot will no longer be making melee AD Carries for a similar reason. The melee's job is to tank damage or assassinate in our current meta. Going back to this, "even yi doesnt get max % health true damage. and gets a small flat amount for a limited duration instead." As I said, "Ranged are meant to be stronger than melee in damage output, but Riot balances this by giving fancy things to melee kits that provide outplay potential to ranged champion. ... Steroids like % health damage do not belong on melee carries; imagine how broken that would be on an assassin." Melee are programmed to have huge gapclosers and/or be bulky champions. If we gave them the kit they're currently programmed to have plus % health true damage, they'd just be the dominating force in the entire game and nobody would play AD Carries anymore because % health true damage melee would get the job done better. Just look back at Patch 4.20, Feral Flare Yi and Warwick, or Irelia in her current state. It's completely wrong to give melee this kind of extra damage. It's not fun to play against, gets picked a majority of the games, if not banned, and makes AD Carries almost useless. Riot knows what they're doing, friends.

Lost In Time2 votes

The fuck?

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