Boards›Gameplay

To Those of You Complaining About the Lack of Keystone Diversity...

Roll in Grass··38 votes·2,330 views

...You can stop now. Just pay attention to PBE. Riot is already aware that they messed up with the keystones and are buffing most of the keystones. These changes happened 14 days ago and you're still complaining? Seriously, stop complaining already. Here are the PBE Keystone changes:

Deathfire Touch (Ferocity, Tier 6)

  • Bonus Attack damage ratio increased to 60% from 50%
  • Ability Power ratio increased to 25% from 20%

Fervor of Battle (Ferocity, Tier 6)

  • Bonus Physical damage per stack based on level increased to [1-12] from [1-8].
  • Max stacks lowered to 8 from 10. (Before you complain about the stacks being lowered, 12x8=96, 8x10=80. So it's actually quite the buff; easier to stack and more damage)

Warlord's Bloodlust (Ferocity, Tier 6)

  • Now heals for 5%-25% of damage dealt based on level (from 15%) and grants 30% attack speed (up from 20%) for 4 seconds.

EDIT: Stormraider's slow resistance is down to 75%. Sorry for the error in the text. Thanks to xApexPredator for pointing this out.

Stormraider's Surge (Cunning, Tier 6)

  • Movement speed bonus increased to 40% from 35%
  • Now also grants 100% slow resistance for 3 seconds
  • Time frame to deal damage increased to 2.5 seconds from 2

Bond of Stone (Resolve, Tier 6)

  • Now [+4% Damage Reduction. 6% of the damage from enemy champions taken by the nearest allied champion is dealt to you instead.] from [+3% Damage Reduction, increased to 6% while near an allied champion. 6% of the damage from enemy champions taken by the nearest allied champion is dealt to you instead.]
  • Base damage reduction increased to 4% from 3%
  • Damage reduction no longer doubles while near an allied champion.

Strength of Ages (Resolve, Tier 6)

  • Now "After reaching the max bonus, these kills instead restore 6% of your Maximum Health" from "After reaching the max bonus, siege minion kills restore 100 Health"
  • Effect now triggers on large monsters and siege minions rather than only siege minions.
  • Max bonus kill effect now restores 6% maximum health from 100 health.

[Source: http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/12/1214-pbe-update.html ]

51 Comments

Woodakoodashooda15 votes

Today, League of Thunderlords

Tomorrow, League of Stormraiders

Roll in Grass9 votes

30% of a champion's max health is pretty hard to pull off in 2.5 seconds during the late game. Even then, not everybody would be taking it like they are with thunderlord's; just assassins. Burst mages wouldn't take it because why would they need movement speed and slow resistance if they should never be in range to get targeted?

Spicy Rice1 votes

For the same reason they get ludens. The movespeed is friggin insane

DrNova1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Roll In Grass,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7wsVAyIc,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-12-29T01:49:39.053+0000)

30% of a champion's max health is pretty hard to pull off in 2.5 seconds during the late game. Even then, not everybody would be taking it like they are with thunderlord's; just assassins. Burst mages wouldn't take it because why would they need movement speed and slow resistance if they should never be in range to get targeted?

This exactly is my biggest issue with those

Oshlet1 votes

Kiting is easier with extra movespeed.

FrickendaChicken2 votes

This would be good for Kite mages, not that many of them are dealing that much damage in a couple of seconds, unless they can target an assassin. But the idea is generally for assassins anyway, Just think of how safe Talon will become. Just jumps on someone, 100-0 in 1 spell rotation more than 30% Ults and speeds off. Or, it helps him and others out of a bad spot. You mess up an assassination and they zhonya's? You still probably did a good chunk of the damage needed, just speed off into the sunset!!! I just wish udyr could make use of this.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

This would be good for Kite mages, not that many of them are dealing that much damage in a couple of seconds, unless they can target an assassin. But the idea is generally for assassins anyway, Just think of how safe Talon will become. Just jumps on someone, 100-0 in 1 spell rotation more than 30% Ults and speeds off. Or, it helps him and others out of a bad spot. You mess up an assassination and they zhonya's? You still probably did a good chunk of the damage needed, just speed off into the sunset!!!

And then morg presses Q and you go take a lunch break.

Still not sure why her snare lasts 3 seconds after obtainable tenacity was significantly reduced

Kite mages won't like it, because most won't be able to deal 30% in 2.5 second, and also because it has a 10 sevond cooldown. So at best you can have the movement speed 30% of the time, and at best activate it twice in a fight.

FrickendaChicken1 votes

Ahri probably can, So can Orianna if she does well enough. (IK AHRI IS GENERALLY COUNTED AS AN ASSASIN BUT she can be played as a kite mage if she can't assassinate soemone

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

Ahri probably can, So can Orianna if she does well enough. (IK AHRI IS GENERALLY COUNTED AS AN ASSASIN BUT she can be played as a kite mage if she can't assassinate soemone

Ahri wouldn't want it. Her burst rotation is relatively slow if she's playing kite mage, and even if it wasn't (or you're good enough), the movement speed isn't all too good considering movement speed has rapidly diminishing returns. The slow resistance might be nice, but you could just dash if the slow is overbearing enough.

FrickendaChicken1 votes

I see that, but at the same time, Ahri has a huge amount of burst with one rotation of abilities, that she can then transition into a Kite mage afterwards, which is generally what I see. It'd just let her get in and out without having to use all of her ult charges right away, and let's her move around to position for the next round of spells. At least that's how I see it.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

I see that, but at the same time, Ahri has a huge amount of burst with one rotation of abilities, that she can then transition into a Kite mage afterwards, which is generally what I see. It'd just let her get in and out without having to use all of her ult charges right away, and let's her move around to position for the next round of spells. At least that's how I see it.

I mean it makes sense in theory. But in practice it's not all too great.

FrickendaChicken2 votes

I've never played Ahri, I was only stating what I saw in games, thanks for clearing that up for me ^.^

Spaceman5pff1 votes

Stormraiders on Ahri. Enough said.

elon wątroba1 votes

Well annie usually flash r so it's going to help her a lot.

ProfDrDeath1 votes

If Precision wasn't nerfed, sure.

Since Precision is cut back down to 3+0.3/lvl, Tier 3 Cunning will become less attractive overall, as well.

Oshlet1 votes

There is the alternative in 45% cdr though

Bârd1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chocolate Frost,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7wsVAyIc,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-12-29T01:45:44.690+0000)

Today, League of Thunderlords

Tomorrow, League of Stormraiders

Not quite. A lot of champions just can't deal damage that quickly, so it won't work on them.

Kr1sys2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chocolate Frost,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7wsVAyIc,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-12-29T01:45:44.690+0000)

Today, League of Thunderlords

Tomorrow, League of Stormraiders

To be fair, to an extent there will almost always be 1 mastery that wins out in most scenarios, the thing people seem to forget are all the points before they get to the keystone. All those 'smart choices' that Riot was talking about really only give you a couple things.

Ferocity for straight up damage and no utility Cunning for utility when dealing damage Resolve for tank/support champs

There's not really any smart choices, and I think the idea behind it is garbage and a facade. If they wanted 'smart choices' I think you get rid of the 3 tree approach and go with a single tree and let the masses(and through actual testing) be able to decide which masteries are best without gating and removing options, or you provide similar stats in each of the trees with the exception of the keystone and the 1 pointers. And in that case we should be looking at Runes again and figure out why we're using masteries instead of runes for combat stats.

I consider 'smart choices' being the 1 pointers and having unique and fun tweaks to your champ or build, and the way it's set up now, you don't really have many opportunities for that because the usefulness of those 1 pointers are between 2 and 3 options, where its almost always 1 that beats out all the others.

MohawkBird1 votes

Doubt that's going to happen. Stormraider's is pretty niche on champions and ones with already high mobility would easily prefer burst or extra damage. It's really geared towards immobile champions anyways.

Spoofghoul7 votes

It not just thunderlords is op. Nope its that other keystones are just not right.

  1. Dft is still only good on dot mages, which im fine with, but it should be usable for non dot casters aswell. Right now its only good for the likes of Brand, Swain, Anivia. The only other champs who can use this are Urgot and Yorick. . .
  2. Fervor only seems good for melee fighters with attackspeed steroids like Yi, Jax or Volibear. Ranged champions would take too long to stack this up to be noticeable in a teamfight.
  3. Warlords is mostly good for early crit users, even if marksmen eventually get their crit. And even then its mostly adc's whom can use this item, lets be honest champions like tryndamare are just melee adc's with extra steroids cos they are melee. No one else can use this mastery and compared to thunderlords it does not have immediate impact.
  4. Stormraider will be better then it used to be but still would not outclass thunderlords, you need burst to make it work, who uses burst? Assassins and mages because thats their main objective, burst your opponent, in which case more burst will always be the best option.
  5. Windspeakers is again very limited in its use, the defensive buff part of it only works when you heal or shield an ally, and without that part its barely any better than runic armor. So if you are not a champion who heals or shield allies this mastery is garbage.
  6. Grasp of the undying is ok it scales well, but untill you reach 6k hp its weaker than thunderlords in a short trade. But like i said 6k hp so who is going to make good use of this besides full tanks?
  7. Strengt of ages, seemed like a more generally usefull mastery but looks can be deceiving, while the hp part is good the sustain part sucks, It takes very long to stack up if you arent a jungler and by then 9/10 champions no longer have sustain issues, and if you do drop low you most likely will base because getting a small amount of hp back for minions/junglecamps doesn't cut it when an opponent pops around the corner.
  8. Bond of stone, the only other mastery which was not garbage, got nerfed. . . You would mostly take this on tanks to absord some of your teammates damage, it isn't comething you would take on a mage or marksmen.

And finally the last one. Thunderlords decree, this one has good base damage and requires 3 spells/aa to proc. This mastery is fantastic on everyone in every situation. Junglers can work together with laners to burt opponents down in ganks. Laners can trade with it or poke with it, now even supports can pitch in for some quick burst. It has meh scalings but good base damage which allows everyone to use it. It also has an immediate impact from the start of the game.

All the other keystones are only good on a very select few champions or in very few situations thunderlords is always good.

ElysMustache2 votes

{quoted}

  1. Fervor only seems good for melee fighters with attackspeed steroids like Yi, Jax or Volibear. Ranged champions would take too long to stack this up to be noticeable in a teamfight.

KogMaw item 3020 item 3027 item 3115 item 3041 item 3089 item 3135

Pale Pirate1 votes

Who plays ap kog anymore?

ElysMustache1 votes

He's still just as strong as Season 5 from what I can tell, and I had ~150 ranked games with him. Have to make playstyle adjustments, of course.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

{quoted}

KogMaw item 3020 item 3027 item 3115 item 3041 item 3089 item 3135

but its bonus ad which means its only half if kog maw uses the W. but still. its probably the best thing to put on him since nothing works well.

ElysMustache1 votes

Fervor stacks don't increase the damage of your spells that scale on AD, and are therefore not bonus AD. Seems to me that you are getting on-hit physical damage from it, which is not reduced by activating W.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

{quoted}

Fervor stacks don't increase the damage of your spells that scale on AD, and are therefore not bonus AD. Seems to me that you are getting on-hit physical damage from it, which is not reduced by activating W.

it doesn't really say that its on hit but am not saying your wrong

Dreadlocks4 votes

I would like to point out that they nerfed stormraiders surge to 75% slow res.

Stormraider's Surge (Cunning, Tier 6) Movement speed bonus increased to 40% from 35% Now also grants 75% slow resistance for 3 seconds Time frame to deal damage increased to 2.5 seconds from 2

http://www.surrenderat20.net/p/current-pbe-balance-changes.html

Roll in Grass2 votes

Thanks :)

Dreadlocks2 votes

No prob, i'm too sick of all the thunderlord QQs lol =]

Ralanr1 votes

Why'd they nerf it?

Hello I am Bird1 votes

Because 100% slow reduction is bullshit

Ralanr1 votes

I can see it broken on Master Yi.

Hello I am Bird1 votes

Now imagine if Fizz, Zed, Ahri, LeeSin, Talon, ect... gets it.

_Shivering intensifies _

Ralanr1 votes

...and I thought it'd be good on Pantheon...

Arch Mage Magnus3 votes

Thunderlords is STILL by far the best choice. GG Riot.

Spaceman5pff1 votes

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/OOXrGR20yR0/0.jpg

shyv2 votes

im still going to take thunderlords on every champ

Spaceman5pff1 votes

Grasp of the Undying on Gangplank tho. The sustain and poke in lane is just stupid.

shyv1 votes

NO

THUNDERLORDS

GankLord1 votes

Meh I still think Thunderlords is overrated imo it's only good on burst champs but that's just my opinion.

undesirable team1 votes

I'm still taking thunderlords

FastAsHeck1 votes

Im so happy that they buffed the weak ones instead of nerfing thunderlords. Good job rito [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Your Real Mom1 votes

League of thunderlords tbh

Edit : fuck someone beat me to the punch

TwinkiePro1 votes

Stormraiders on Hecarim. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Gentzer1 votes

I love Stormraider's, and am really happy to see it buffed. Running it on an ADC with loadsa crit means you can get a mini Jinx passive, just quickly crit out a squishy and speed away.

WookieJesuz1 votes

Stormraid is 70% not 100%

Roll in Grass1 votes

75%* Already fixed :)

Rakvir1 votes

Well, I finally have a reason to use Strength of Ages now.

High51 votes

I agree with the point of the post about the keystones. I just wish posters could make a good point without needing to call out other posts (complaining, trolling, etc) to do it.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Roll in Grass

A Message to My Fellow ADC Mains and to My Dearest Supports
Gameplay185 comments
118
votes
How Faker Dodges Ashe Arrows
Memes & Games32 comments
103
votes
This Gif Would Actually Make For a Good Champion Teaser
Concepts & Creations27 comments
50
votes
On the 12th Day of Christmas, Riot Gave To Me
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous15 comments
47
votes
I Found A Legendary Artifact! I Didn't Know They Still Existed!!
Memes & Games20 comments
33
votes
"It's Nearly Impossible To Peel For Your Vayne When She Flashes and/or Tumbles Into A 1v3"
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous18 comments
31
votes