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The New Pyke Changes

iiGazeii··14 votes·12,455 views

Pyke

Pyke has a pretty interesting set of changes on the PBE. They've made it so that the percentage of damage from champions that he converts to gray health scales with AD, rather than with level, and have adjusted the values so that his base conversion is significantly lower, but also slightly raising the maximum. He needs ~125 AD to cap out the conversion.

The intention is to reduce the power of "tank Pyke", where Pyke players would build armor and MR to be hard to take down and enable them to dive and set up kills in dangerous situations while being difficult to take down. With these changes, Pyke will have to build at least a bit of AD in order to get his health regen.

One consequence of these changes is that Pyke will have spikes of regen percentage. Since it depends on itemization, he will be able to accelerate how effective his self-healing is by getting fed.

For example: item 3071 Black Cleaver is an item that Pyke builds often, since it gives him a ton of stats he can use. With the numbers on the PBE, a single Black Cleaver will let Pyke convert ~54% of incoming champion damage to gray health. For comparison, the old level-scaling would give him about that much at level 9.

If Pyke builds a Black Cleaver and a Frozen Mallet, he will max out his health regen. He can get the same amount of gray health that a level 18 Pyke would be getting before these changes.

These changes are not just a nerf to tank builds, they are a pretty massive buff to AD/health builds. Early on, he can regen a much larger portion of damage than before, allowing him to stay in lane longer and have enough health to set up early plays and start a snowball.

Since he maxes it out with two items, he will be free to build whatever items he wants after that. He can go armor, MR, lethality, etc., while having a ton of regen.

28 Comments

kenlaey3 votes

Pyke was already op now they are adding stuff like this that makes him even more broken. I think this will allow him to be played in the jungle again and or top lane. The regen is good for doing constant camps and not worrying about being low when ganking, and I guess the regen is good for a tank top Pyke I just hope I don't go against these lol.

Veraska5 votes

{quoted}

Pyke was already op now they are adding stuff like this that makes him even more broken. I think this will allow him to be played in the jungle again and or top lane. The regen is good for doing constant camps and not worrying about being low when ganking, and I guess the regen is good for a tank top Pyke I just hope I don't go against these lol.

He still has abysmal clear speed and these changes dont benefit pyke until 2 damage items in

Pyke can jungle in that he can gank over and over but he cant clear, hes gonna need CD buffs before hes anything besides a support

Illabethe4 votes

You really don't know the champ. He clears jungle better than all but 3 junglers: XinZhao Udyr Tryndamere

I get level 6 shortly after my mid lane does.

Veraska1 votes

{quoted}

You really don't know the champ. He clears jungle better than all but 3 junglers: XinZhao Udyr Tryndamere

I get level 6 shortly after my mid lane does.

Walk me through it. I've tried a lot of different builds and starting routes and I got tired of getting flamed by randoms for picking pyke jungle

Illabethe1 votes

  1. Start Red. Get a Leash (sometimes I don't get one - have to orb to reduce damage taken, can use Q to throw around Red Sentinel if need be to give trinket time to heal you) Start with item 1039 (Allows more camp options than Knife does)

  2. Level 2 E through Wall into Krugs. Hit both. If your Red was done correctly, Q should be back up as well. Alternate targets so that item 1039 is burning/healing all Krugs at the same time in between skills. Pop one charge of item 2031 if you have to (I don't, but I generally do anyways just because I want to be higher HP at scuttle/raptors/ganks). Use smite to either kill the large Krug at 40% Hp, or full kill a second wave medium Krug. If you do this camp right, you should have the camp dead by the time you reach your third E, which should eliminate the last 4 small Krugs.

  3. Your cooldowns will probably be on at this point except maybe Q. Walk to Scuttle to survey if it's taken or not. If not, take it. If it is, go back and level 3 off Raptors. Easy camp..... second smite should be ready, and Q/E make short work of the small raptors.

  4. You should be level 3+ at this point, depending on if you got the red side scuttle. Either gank mid/top, or continue farming. Check the other scuttle (probably not up but doesn't hurt to look)

  5. Hit up Wolves. Easy camp. just focus the big one, let item 1039 take care of the small ones.

  6. Blue: By this point your Red buff is gone, and you might have to orb a bit to do the camp, or throw it around a little. If you still have a healing charge, use it. Not a real hard camp.

  7. If you have Nullifying Orb, you can Gromp pretty easy, as it will soak 1-2 hits from Gromp. Otherwise, your HP may be too low to take it. if you still had a pot at Blue, should be easy enough.

Now. That's just the first jungle clear. If it went correctly, you should be level 4 with 55% or so into Level 5. If you lost both scuttles, you're still level 4. Should have around 1245 Gold.

You have several options then.

-If you plan on being a hard early game ganker, rush item 3142 . Skip finishing your jungle item because the item 3133 works far better into that insanely fast move speed boost. Almost no early game lane can counter a Pyke gank with this item. Still..... it means late/mid game you might be too squishy to do more than a support would.

-If you plan on Jungle farming vs a Tanky team, think about going item 3077 , which will give you a third auto attack reset, and all hits aoe. The reason I say vs Tank is.... Pyke generally is tanky enough to trade tanks. Better to start offensively than to try to fight tanks with tank items.

-If you plan on Jungle farming vs a High damage team that specializes in AD, think about rushing item 3751 item 3076 and then building them out. Both items speed jungle clear, and eventually give Pyke AD, and supplement his weak damage kit a little.

-If you plan on Jungle farming vs a High damage team that specializes in AP, you might think about rushing components of item 3163 item 3813 , and possibly building parts of item 3078 . CDR is your best friend vs a mage team..... more so than perhaps finished items. You can always finish them as you go.

item 3071 is generally a core item as well, but it's not a team specialized item.

Another option if you're going jungle tank: item 3025 adds a third dimension of camp clear. It clears camps extremely fast if you have Bami's + Thornmail, and generally isn't a bad item on certain runes.

Keep in mind..... I generally am a Sorcery based Pyke, not Domination or Resolve. I do sometimes secondary Resolve, but I want to stress this, because if I give advice on something that has Mana in the item like an Iceborne, it's more of a "my preference" item.

Veraska1 votes

{quoted}

  1. Start Red. Get a Leash (sometimes I don't get one - have to orb to reduce damage taken, can use Q to throw around Red Sentinel if need be to give trinket time to heal you) Start with item 1039 (Allows more camp options than Knife does)

  2. Level 2 E through Wall into Krugs. Hit both. If your Red was done correctly, Q should be back up as well. Alternate targets so that item 1039 is burning/healing all Krugs at the same time in between skills. Pop one charge of item 2031 if you have to (I don't, but I generally do anyways just because I want to be higher HP at scuttle/raptors/ganks). Use smite to either kill the large Krug at 40% Hp, or full kill a second wave medium Krug. If you do this camp right, you should have the camp dead by the time you reach your third E, which should eliminate the last 4 small Krugs.

  3. Your cooldowns will probably be on at this point except maybe Q. Walk to Scuttle to survey if it's taken or not. If not, take it. If it is, go back and level 3 off Raptors. Easy camp..... second smite should be ready, and Q/E make short work of the small raptors.

  4. You should be level 3+ at this point, depending on if you got the red side scuttle. Either gank mid/top, or continue farming. Check the other scuttle (probably not up but doesn't hurt to look)

  5. Hit up Wolves. Easy camp. just focus the big one, let item 1039 take care of the small ones.

  6. Blue: By this point your Red buff is gone, and you might have to orb a bit to do the camp, or throw it around a little. If you still have a healing charge, use it. Not a real hard camp.

  7. If you have Nullifying Orb, you can Gromp pretty easy, as it will soak 1-2 hits from Gromp. Otherwise, your HP may be too low to take it. if you still had a pot at Blue, should be easy enough.

Now. That's just the first jungle clear. If it went correctly, you should be level 4 with 55% or so into Level 5. If you lost both scuttles, you're still level 4. Should have around 1245 Gold.

You have several options then.

-If you plan on being a hard early game ganker, rush item 3142 . Skip finishing your jungle item because the item 3133 works far better into that insanely fast move speed boost. Almost no early game lane can counter a Pyke gank with this item. Still..... it means late/mid game you might be too squishy to do more than a support would.

-If you plan on Jungle farming vs a Tanky team, think about going item 3077 , which will give you a third auto attack reset, and all hits aoe. The reason I say vs Tank is.... Pyke generally is tanky enough to trade tanks. Better to start offensively than to try to fight tanks with tank items.

-If you plan on Jungle farming vs a High damage team that specializes in AD, think about rushing item 3751 item 3076 and then building them out. Both items speed jungle clear, and eventually give Pyke AD, and supplement his weak damage kit a little.

-If you plan on Jungle farming vs a High damage team that specializes in AP, you might think about rushing components of item 3163 item 3813 , and possibly building parts of item 3078 . CDR is your best friend vs a mage team..... more so than perhaps finished items. You can always finish them as you go.

item 3071 is generally a core item as well, but it's not a team specialized item.

Another option if you're going jungle tank: item 3025 adds a third dimension of camp clear. It clears camps extremely fast if you have Bami's + Thornmail, and generally isn't a bad item on certain runes.

Keep in mind..... I generally am a Sorcery based Pyke, not Domination or Resolve. I do sometimes secondary Resolve, but I want to stress this, because if I give advice on something that has Mana in the item like an Iceborne, it's more of a "my preference" item.

This is beautifully written. Incredibly detailed and understandable. Thank you!

Sorc pyke is interesting, what's ur preference on key+path?

Illabethe1 votes

Sorcery doesn't have a keystone that really works 100% of the time for Pyke.... you could Comet.... or Aery.... Phase Rush.... all work. I generally Phase Rush just because I really like the 30% move speed when aggressing or running.

I generally take either Nimbus or Nullifying Orb depending on the team I'm versus.

Transcendence turns Armor items into better AD items than his HP passive does.

Gathering Storm.

Elite4Runner4 votes

His grey health is only stored for damage dealt by champions. It doesn't help at all for jungling.

The only reason he is able to jungle is because he has high base health and his kit is good for ganking.

Rexxiee3 votes

Pyke needs overall NERFS, not massive buff to his AD build.

Dont know why riot doesnt seem to get it.

iiGazeii2 votes

Pyke is a necessary check on Kai'Sa.

After these changes, Pyke will be significantly squishier. He has to choose between living through burst and poke damage, so pinning him down in the midfight and killing him is easier.

Illabethe2 votes

Yeah totes needs a nerf when vs competent players he almost never can 100-0% Life someone due to his limited damage....

Even late game, Pyke has trouble doing over 1100 damage with his entire non R combo. That means to really be able to solo.... his targets can only have about 1700 hp to 100-0 them.

delete shaco2 votes

This is a really nice change. Now Pyke’s high mobility is balanced by his nerfed tankiness. Season 9 isn’t looking too bad so far.

Battstastic091 votes

Except that they nerfed his mobility by making his w slower

BULLSEYE892 votes

is it just me or is pyke, a champ released like 2 months after kai'sa, more balanced than kai'sa herself????

Illabethe1 votes

You do realize I can take Transcendence and Gathering Storm.... and get 400 AD without building fundamental AD items....

I know it sounds troll, but I often build item 3110 item 3025 item 3042 item 3071 item 3673 , and get competitive returns to a Duskblade build. and far more return than just a tank build. It also has no mana issues, so I can just keep trucking, rather than worrying about restaging. Muramana also procs on Pyke's Q as well as subsequent auto attacks.... so in a way it's slightly better than a Duskblade in raw damage. Not as great vs tanks building armor..... but.... Pyke has trouble with tanks anyways.

Veraska1 votes

All these changes do is force a support champion into building a stat they cant use

iiGazeii13 votes

{quoted}

All these changes do is force a support champion into building a stat they cant use

Pyke is not like other support champions. He can absolutely use AD. It affects the damage of his combo, the execute threshold of his ult, the amount of gray health he can hold at a time, and soon, how much gray health he'll get from damage. More AD makes Pyke's setups more lethal.

Elite4Runner1 votes

Theoretically, it is also a buff to Health and Resistance builds as well.

item 1413 item 3065 item 3083 would also give him enough AD from his passive, and he should be able to build all 3 before level 18.

Early game will be weaker, and health build doesn't scale as fast as full AD or AD + Health, but the resistances and bonus healing gives him more effective health.

Illabethe2 votes

Except there's no purpose at all to build a Warmog's on Pyke, and the AD conversion is not that great on HP builds compared to CDR/AD builds.

Elite4Runner1 votes

I was simply using that item to illustrate how he could obtain the amount of health needed to maximize his new passive without AD items.

He could accomplish the same thing by replacing Warmogs with a combination of two of the following item 3800 item 3143 item 3068 item 3742

This would take more gold and more time, but the armor would further increase his overall effective health.

The point was that this is not even that significant of a nerf to health Pyke, .. if it is even a nerf at all.

Yes, it is a nerf to his early game for both, more so for pure health + resistance builds, but he is still able to maximize his passive before level 18

Illabethe1 votes

It's a pretty substantial nerf, since any Armor Pyke picks up EARLY game needs to have CDR to reduce his dismally long cooldowns. Only one of the items you mentioned has CDR. The CDR is why people picked up item 3110 first, rather than any of those others.

Cooldowns, not defense or offense.. are what gets Pyke killed. Armor is secondary and just helps him endure until the cooldowns are back.

And when you compare AD items and Armor items in CDR capacity while buffing his passive, almost ALL the options are the AD items:

item 3147 item 3142 item 3071 item 3078 item 3813 item 3163 item 3508

Vs item 3194 item 3109 item 3156 item 3800 item 3065 .

7v5.... and.... -1 meets both criteria (maw) -Adaptive Helmet is extremely situational and almost never built on Pyke -Knight's Vow can kill Pyke -None of the HP Armor items have 20% CDR

What this means is: Almost every single Pyke will look to either risk not having HP and building item 3110 etc, or..... will build AD items, Trivializing their tankiness.

This means..... Pyke is getting a MASSIVE bot lane nerf early game. And he's a 50% champion. He either has to choose to not have CDR, and be tanky, or to heal, not both. Or, he risks AD and dies before he can skill.

He'll still be fine at low elos where Pyke can get away with a full AD build. But the change is going to dramatically reduce his viability in high elo.

It won't affect jungle Pyke much, so there's that. I suspect Pyke will go the way of Tahm Kench: find another role than support.

Elite4Runner1 votes

Look, we are talking about two different things.

You are talking about what is better on Pyke, .. and you might be right. I'm not sure because I've never tried the builds you are suggesting.

What I am talking about is the strength of Pyke on the live servers that builds health and resistances, versus the strength of Pyke on the PBE focusing on the same stats.

When you compare the two passives with the same items, the new passive will cause Pyke to be weaker in the early game, but he will reach the same optimization of his passive sooner.

End of comment.

Illabethe1 votes

Early game decides games. That's more or less what it boils down to. The change is likely to increase non AD build deaths by an average of 2-3 per game..... which is significant. Most early game Pyke escapes are generally by the hair of his chinny chin chin, and a decent reset.

It means that his restoration rate won't change at all until his first or second recall. It means just by doing what he does..... he's going to die a lot more. It means rushing Frozen Heart won't actually help his heal rate until late game.

That all affects his gold income as well. If he averages 4 1/2 items a game, it could very well put him down to 3 3/4 items, because to not throw a game.... early game..... he can't really do much now. Sit and watch and be patient. While your adc throws because they don't have a good support anymore.

I'm Glad I jungle Pyke.

Vlada Cut1 votes

Did you say...tank Pyke with AD? item 3401/item 3748 item 3071 item 3047 item 3742 item 3065 item 3812

Illabethe1 votes

That's too many items and Titanic Hydra is garbage on Pyke, since he can't scale its damage.

Vlada Cut1 votes

{quoted}

That's too many items and Titanic Hydra is garbage on Pyke, since he can't scale its damage.

You saw the / right? It meant either of the two items lol. And I don't take titanic hydra on him much either considering I preffer to have vision when I'm supporting as him.

Wert the Wacky1 votes

This is disgusting. Pyke’s getting an unjust straight nerf to his early game just because people don’t like being outplayed by him.

QmegaSquadVeigar1 votes

Gathering storm transcendence with Cleaver and Death's Dance is nutty.

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