Why is Darius' Apprehend Range 540?

TehNACHO · 2014-12-26T01:34:43.858Z

I mean it's such an interesting little gimmick. OKAY, so apparently some people misunderstood what I was trying to go for with this thread, so let's try again and make it very obvious I'm not complaining that Darius can't reach ranged champs. I repeat, I am not complaining that Darius can't reach ranged champs. Clear? Okay, with that out of the way, here's the thread. Ever notice that Darius' Apprehend range is 540? I honestly wonder what is the point of that when making it something more obvious and standardized like 550 range will make no gameplay difference at all. Think of it like this: Because ranged auto attacks are calculated based on the edge of the auto attackers model to the edge of the target's model, whereas spell ranges are calculated based off the center of the activators model and the center of the target's model. This means that 550 auto attack range is actually just a little farther than 550 spell cast range. In other words, if the entire point of making Darius' Apprehend at 540 range was to make him barely unable to reach a ranged champion at auto attack range, then it was completely pointless. At 550 spell range, something that makes more sense since range is usually a multiplicative value of 25 for most every other champion of the game, Darius would still be unable to touch ranged champions. This means there's literally no point for his range to be 540. I'm trying to rack my brain for scenarios where it actually would make a difference, but I can't seem to find any. Many other melee champions have their gap closers set to an almost standard range of 600; in other words, Darius doesn't have the range advantage over melee targets either, and he's not even tied with virtually any champion in this regard since not many champions' abilities are set at 550 anyway. I can't imagine a scenario where it would make a difference that the range is 540 or 550. Can you guys figure out a good reason exactly why the range is so specifically 540?

TehNACHODec 26, 20144 votes

Thanks man, love the answer, even if it is just a (hilarious) guess.

With a lot of talk around Darius recently and me noticing that, you have no idea how badly this has been bugging me and my ocd haha.

ElphrihaimDec 26, 20142 votes

{quoted}

Nice question, got curious myself and had a quick look at the spell's files. The actual range is 550, though the range display indicator is indeed set to 540. At a guess during Darius' development or balancing someone decided to test out a slight range drop, realized it didn't do what they'd hoped and reverted the change, without reverting the display indicator change.

Can you make it so that Darius' axe actually touches all the units that are going to be pulled?

Currently, since the pull is an actual cone but Darius' axe... is, well, an axe, people get pulled without being visually touched or even clipped by the axe. :c

Or is that too far out of a request?

RiotMeddlerDec 26, 20143 votes

Spells like this are almost always a bit of a compromise between what looks good and an exact match for the underlying functionality. Often we'll err a bit on the side of functionality over form to ensure gameplay's clear for everybody involved. In this particular case though we felt it was clear enough what was going on, and what the intended counterplay was, that it was appropriate to go for a more natural looking animation, rather than one that precisely traced the boundaries of the targeting cone.

ElphrihaimDec 26, 20141 votes

{quoted}

Spells like this are almost always a bit of a compromise between what looks good and an exact match for the underlying functionality. Often we'll err a bit on the side of functionality over form to ensure gameplay's clear for everybody involved. In this particular case though we felt it was clear enough what was going on, and what the intended counterplay was, that it was appropriate to go for a more natural looking animation, rather than one that precisely traced the boundaries of the targeting cone.

sigh

I expected that answer and I am disappointed in myself that I felt the need to ask. Thank you for humoring a foolish fool that was performing foolish tomfoolery, Meddler.

It's still really annoying to be completely untouched by the axe and still get pulled, though.

5G8Nri0B54Dec 26, 20142 votes

Yeah I can quickly tell you, as the one playing against Darius who does NOT have the privilege of hovering over the ability icon to check out it's AoE...I can tell you that...

gameplay's clear for everybody involved. In this particular case though we felt it was clear enough what was going on

The gameplay is not clear at all.

If gameplay revolves around kiting and dodging skillshot, expertly dodging just out of range of the axe, only to be sucked back in like I'm a magnet is part of what made Darius so frustrating to play against.

btw, same dealsies with Morgana and Lux 's binding.

There's a gigantic list of other instances, but I feel that unless the enemy player themselves are given a method to know the exact hitboxes of such an ability (think Xerath 's Q and Jinx 's E), animation and hitbox SHOULD match. Why did you give Jinx 's taser a clear hotbox for the opponent to see? Because it's actual animation was so inaccurate compared to the hitbox.

And speaking of clarity, this is only tangentially related, but Fizz 's Q inflicting damage even if he doesn't connect. This is a slightly different issue, but somewhat related.

LeeroyHeraldoDec 27, 20141 votes

Makes sense to me, but wouldn't this be a good place to add on a little bit of a spell effect indicator at the end? I'm thinking like for cassiopeia's q and w where there's a faint outline around where the edge of the spell actually is. For Darius it could be something cool like a slight red "bloody" arc for the edge. This probably won't get done because it does require art resources, but it could be something to put on the long list of easy to do quality of life updates

Count DunkulaDec 27, 20141 votes

Hey Meddler,

Wouldn't an animation change (or a small fix) prevent the inconsistency of the effect?

I mean, in the actual animation, Darius stretches his arm, the axe goes in a straight line and then goes back, pulling everyone.

Wouldn't it be better if, for example, Darius would get the axe a bit on the right, then move to the left, and then pull? I think this would ensure a more "fair effect" on the skill. The problem with this could be the animation time, tho.

ThryaleDec 26, 20141 votes

I thought skill shot spells always had a shorter range indicator so that players had a little more leeway when casting abilities on fleeing opponents and such.

QuinnrateDec 26, 20142 votes

{quoted}

Nice question, got curious myself and had a quick look at the spell's files. The actual range is 550, though the range display indicator is indeed set to 540. At a guess during Darius' development or balancing someone decided to test out a slight range drop, realized it didn't do what they'd hoped and reverted the change, without reverting the display indicator change.

Couldn't this be reported as a bug then? And sent to the balancing/dev team to touch up the cone size? It's frustrating as a darius main to not know exactly where the "extra range" on his grab ends, and I often miss / unexpectedly get enemy champs because of it. It's a very important reliability thing imo.

AyRe CoNteMpTMay 27, 20151 votes

darius apprehend doesnt have 550 range. vayne has 550 auto attack range and its NOT EVEN CLOSE. darius has more like 450 range on his hook. seems like you dont know your game bro.

Why is Darius' Apprehend Range 540?

29 Comments

If gameplay revolves around kiting and dodging skillshot, expertly dodging just out of range of the axe, only to be sucked back in like I'm a magnet is part of what made Darius so frustrating to play against.

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