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I wish armor meant something

GigglesO··18 votes·6,810 views

Yea, ok... I get it 100 armor doesn't mean much, but its supposed to be 50% damage reduction...

I guess it doesn't mean shit when the enemy can just lethality you to death.

https://imgur.com/CB8OsjI

yea great 4500 damage in 3 seconds...

"Fun"

Glad I didn't build zhonyas, so I couldn't "outplay" him...

EDIT: So I see alot of angry people. "But you didn't build zhonyas."

So an item that can block his ulti once every 120 seconds, somehow means that I can counter his 60 second ulti? Yea ok, sure? To top it off zhonyas is easily time able, which means if I don't have the mobility, or flash to instantly dodge as soon as it wears off I'm still dead. That isn't counter play.

Second of all, all he used to kill me was R Q Auto Attack. Then he pressed R to back to his starting point, and W'd away from me... He still over killed me by 1700 damage. Thats 66% more hp than I had to begin with... Which is fucking bull shit. There is no reason he needs to be doing that much damage WITH ONLY HITTING TWO SKILLS AND AN AUTO ATTACK. The major complaint here is that assassins are supposed to be "high risk, high reward". Where the fuck was his risk? Just imagine if he actually had to hit me with his W E Q combo, he would have easily done 200% of my hp, which means that even if I had another 100 armor he still would have killed me.

80 Comments

Jamaree16 votes

If you could build no defenses, and survive the full burst of a fed assassin, I think that would be a problem tbh.

GigglesO7 votes

When he is glass cannon, and I have the same damage he should have died too... Instead he just jumped away with no repercussion. he didn't even stick around for more than 1 auto... an assassins ulti does not need to be doing 2k damage.

Jamaree9 votes

I mean all things considered, 3 seconds is pretty long for an assassin...who was far more fed then you mind you.

GigglesO7 votes

Lol, I don't think you understand how mordes defense works...

Jamaree6 votes

I mean I was maining Mordekaiser for years before he got nerfed to shit, so I think I do. I still don't think expecting to build glass cannon and surviving against a full build fed Zed when you have absolutely no armor is realistic.

Daddy Ants8 votes

{quoted}

I mean I was maining Mordekaiser for years before he got nerfed to shit, so I think I do. I still don't think expecting to build glass cannon and surviving against a full build fed Zed when you have absolutely no armor is realistic.

It's not realistic.

Especially a Zed with 72 Lethality.

GigglesO6 votes

You say that, but the word counterplay comes to mind. So I'm told I'm supposed to be able to counter play that... How?

What am I supposed to do, dodge his ulti, dodge that 1 point and click auto? The fact that I made him deal 2k damage in his ulti when all I had was 2700 hp shows a pretty big story about mordes defense with just offensive items too.

Jamaree2 votes

Zhonya?

GigglesO5 votes

So he can W and just wait for the effect to end and then still instantly kill me coming out of it? Yea ok "counterplay" His ulti has a lower CD than zhonyas too... sooo yea sure, glad that will be up every time he presses R...

Jamaree6 votes

I mean you are supposed to Zhonya the initial effect before the mark is even on you, that said, I would like an answer to my question.

Do you really think that a fed ahead full build assassin shouldn't get to one shot people who build no defenses?

GigglesO6 votes

Maybe you should answer a question, do you think that an equally built champion, that is supposed to be anti-burst, immobile, with no cc should just die to an assassin that hits you 3 times?

Assassins should not be "guaranteed kills" just because they hit half a combo, hell, against a champion that has no mobility, no cc, and is supposed to be anti-burst they shouldn't even be close to securing that kill. You know why I didn't die before I made his ulti deal 2k damage? Did you even look at how much damage I did take? Its because morde is supposed to be anti burst/assassin... Damage is too high for him to do his damn job though.

Jamaree4 votes

{quoted}

Maybe you should answer a question, do you think that an equally built champion, that is supposed to be anti-burst, immobile, with no cc should just die to an assassin that hits you 3 times?

If they are fed, ahead of you, and you have absolutely no defenses, then yes, they should, why shouldn't they? Why should a fed full build assassin not pop squishies?

Assassins should not be "guaranteed kills" just because they hit half a combo, hell, against a champion that has no mobility, no cc, and is supposed to be anti-burst they shouldn't even be close to securing that kill. You know why I didn't die before I made his ulti deal 2k damage? Did you even look at how much damage I did take? Its because morde is supposed to be anti burst/assassin... Damage is too high for him to do his damn job though.

Because you built no defenses, just because Mordekaiser is anti burst doesn't mean he should be able to tank a full built fed ahead assassin with no defenses, that would be obscene.

GigglesO5 votes

Its only since season 8 that its been impossible to do what you just commented about with morde. He is an anti-carry, in the terms if you have to get into melee range he is supposed to kill you.

Everyone keeps saying that zed isn't safe because he has to get into melee range. Everyone keeps saying assassins "aren't that great" and all this bull shit about how they need to one shot to be relevant.

That zed just did an extra 1700 damage above and beyond my HP because of how well I anti-burst him. At what point do you say enough damage is enough? He was literally his W away from killing me twice over. If I had a 7th item slot, and I had it into a defense item like tmail, or randuins, he still would have killed me. That is not the definition of balanced.

GigglesO2 votes
GigglesO6 votes

20 kills up, but he was at the same FULL BUILD. Its not like I had 1 item.

FULL BUILD IS FULL BUILD. I can’t just get more full build just because I have extra gold sitting around.

He has no real risk. If he didn't have a get out of jail free card recast on his R, or he actually had to use his W to get a kill I wouldn't even be complaining, but thats not at all how zed works. He presses R, he spams his Q really fast, autos once, and then Re-R's W's and hes free. There is no fucking risk in that.

The only reason he didn’t die more is because his mobility was a get out of jail free card. Assassins need to have risk associated with them if they are going to be that bursty.

DarukongSr2 votes

That's an awful argument man. I main Darius, and even I wouldn't expect to last more than a couple secs if I had almost 0 bonus hp and armor against a zed. Maybe if you built properly you'd have at least had a shot. I agree damage and mobility creep is too high, but come on man...you're just hurting that argument by using terrible logic. Morde is not simply "anitburst". Like any juggernaut he still needs to buy a certain minimum of tanky stats to be relevant in most games. For instance, as Darius the only time I can go full damage is when I get way ahead early against an EXTREMELY favorable enemy team comp that my comp just stomps. That's the ONLY time and that, as a general rule, applies to the juggernaut class. You aren't building right my dude.

GigglesO2 votes

{quoted}

That's an awful argument man. I main Darius, and even I wouldn't expect to last more than a couple secs if I had almost 0 bonus hp and armor against a zed

That is the thing, the game shouldn't be so skewed that you get punished for not picking an assassin. Assassins shouldn't be able to hit R Q, 1 auto attack and then just leave. The reason it lasted 3 seconds is because that is how long his death mark takes to go off, he was already long gone by time it hit.

Jamaree4 votes

{quoted}

an assassins ulti does not need to be doing 2k damage.

So can Mordekaiser's ulti, and he doesn't even need to be near him to interact or put himself in harm's way unlike Zed's.

GigglesO6 votes

Because being an immobile melee (with a base 325 MS) means that getting within 650 range is so easy and "safe".

Jamaree2 votes

Safer then having to be on top of your opponent to do damage to make your ultimate do anything.

GigglesO5 votes

Dat press R (or W if you didn't use it) to go back to starting position, after hitting 1 auto and qing... "super unsafe"

Beatrice falls8 votes

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/455110895551381504/477574307355033601/unknown.png

Hello there, mine didn't even ult, he just W > Q > E > AA and killed me. Fun times but "Zhonya hard counters lethality" amirite (and as you can see I was extremely fed, he was one item and 1 level behind, even if it was ARAM, so the "he was fed" argument is bullshit)

Jamaree4 votes

I have to ask because I'm honestly confused, when people say "This game needs less damage." Do they mean that it needs to be a point that squishy champions with no real defenses should be able to survive the full burst of a champion easily, is that what they are asking?

Beatrice falls5 votes

{quoted}

I have to ask because I'm honestly confused, when people say "This game needs less damage." Do they mean that it needs to be a point that squishy champions with no real defenses should be able to survive the full burst of a champion easily, is that what they are asking?

In a PVP game, you shouldn't ever die in less than a second, unless the enemy is extremely fed. Sad truth, now everyone dies in less than a second, it's basically "first blow = kill". Try playing a tank like Rammus or Ornn, you'll see what I mean.

Jamaree4 votes

Depends really, if you are squishy and get to do a lot of damage, a downside should be that you should die immediately if you get jumped on without defenses, for cases like Ornn and Rammus, yeah, they should be able to tank a bit longer then now, but I don't think squishy champions should be able to survive the full burst of champions specfically designed to pop them especially when they fail to get a substantial amount of defenses, also, can't Lux kill just as fast?

Beatrice falls5 votes

{quoted}

Depends really, if you are squishy and get to do a lot of damage, a downside should be that you should die immediately if you get jumped on without defenses, for cases like Ornn and Rammus, yeah, they should be able to tank a bit longer then now, but I don't think squishy champions should be able to survive the full burst of champions specfically designed to pop them especially when they fail to get a substantial amount of defenses, also, can't Lux kill just as fast?

Yes, with a full combo. As I said, Zed didn't even used his ult. He just blew me up when I did have a item 3157. This should not happen. For Lux, using her entire combo (Q > E > R and AA) should kill someone, she's a mage, she relies on her spells, she can't kill someone with only half of her kit.

GigglesO5 votes

I hit that zed with a q e r ignite, he didn't die... "squishy" my ass.

GigglesO5 votes

Even then, this whole delayed burst damage on a champion that can just waltz away is still bull shit. Sure it takes 3 seconds before the damage hits, but unless you have this one single item, and it happens to be off cooldown, you are going to just die anyways.

I think the only balanced assassins are the ones that don't easily one shot you, and then over kill you by alot.

Stephenizgod1 votes

Well it would be nice if you had the chance to outplay, not that fun when lets say Evelynn walks up, you dodge her charm but she aa E aa R and you die instantly. Or Zed throws his shadow at you, R's AA W ignite then walks away and you die instantly. You can say Zhonya's all you want, but his ult has a shorter cool down than Zhonyas and Lethality > Armor ...

The main issue I think people are having right now is not that "Assassins are popping people instantly" it is that it is not clear that they are able to do it. I mean you see a Talon with item 3134 deal 80% of a champions life instantly with a W and a Q and you wonder wtf can be done about that? Don't be near him while he is farming? That isn't counterplay...

You don't expect that much damage, every season up to this point has had a much more clear damage spike. You did not except to be killed at level 3 by any champion unless you let them hit you for an extended period of time. Now any champ with 2 longswords, electrocute and ignite can insta-pop you. I know for me, a lot of the time I am left stunned by a champion killing me faster than i can react.

Jamaree2 votes

That is fine and fair, but I think the extremes of a fed assassin, who is full build, not one shotting a naturally squishy champion who don't have any defenses is bad.

Stephenizgod1 votes

agreed, but again its all about how it happens. Should talon jump over a wall and insta-kill you then jump over another wall and just be gone all in under a second? What if you aren't the one who fed him? How is that fair?

I don't think its asking too much for there to be some counterplay to them. Yes, a fed assassin should be able to kill a squishy, but not at the expense of that persons ability to play the game.

Jamaree1 votes

They would have to lower their damage then and if you do that, why bother playing an assassin at all then over just say a control mage?

Stephenizgod1 votes

No their damage is fine, the issue is their damage is all pushed into a single instance of damage. For most, this is the moment they land their first ability. This is why it feels bad, once they land that ability you are dead and there is nothing you can do about it. Plus most of them have Invisibility or a large gap-closer which makes it near impossible to actually prevent them from getting to you.

It shouldn't be front-loaded into their first attack, but that is the problem with Duskblade. To be honest, this isn't a debatable issue, I mean everyone from low to high elo complains about this. You don't get to play the game when there is a fed Assassin because no one can stop them and it doesn't matter how fed you are. The ease at which they can get fed is the main issue, Electrocute + Ignite + Lethality is just too strong early on in the game. They are allowed to absolutely dominate their lanes then go roam and dominate other lanes. The only thing you can do is stall for late game and not be on the same side of the map.

GigglesO5 votes

It would have just done your full hp worth of damage again.

dunder kill2 votes

YOU DIDNT EVEN USE THE ZHONYAS. Are you actually trolling rn?

Daddy Ants7 votes

You built full glass cannon, what did you expect?

I looked at his OP.GG and noticed he was a 20/6 Zed with 6 items, 4 of which were Lethality items.

4 x 18 = 72.

He has 72 Lethality so you theoretically only have 35 armor when he attacks you.

GigglesO7 votes

Exactly why I want armor to exist again. Lethality needs to be reworked or even removed. Tie it with Duskblade and Stormrazors and its just not able to be played against.

Daddy Ants6 votes

{quoted}

Exactly why I want armor to exist again. Lethality needs to be reworked or even removed. Tie it with Duskblade and Stormrazors and its just not able to be played against.

A thornmail or Randuin's would have been enough armor to negate his lethality.

GigglesO5 votes

And with his over kill damage I still would have died.

Jamaree6 votes

But...you didn't build any armor. :I

SlashStriker7 votes

cries about armor and has 0 defense items built

dunder kill2 votes

Dont you know? His base armor should outscale a literal 6 item Zed

SlashStriker2 votes

{quoted}

Dont you know? His base armor should outscale a literal 6 item Zed

Show me a build that you get over 100 armor pen

dunder kill1 votes

You dont need 100 armor pen lmao. He had 100 Armor. Zed had 72 Lethality with 6 completed items. Are you actually going to sit here with a straight face and tell me that 28 armor should outscale 6 completed items?

JackMcSnipeyz6 votes

You built full glass cannon, what did you expect? He probably had lethality and armor pen aswell? What's wrong here, you built 0 armor items.

GigglesO7 votes

Mordes defense is tied to his offence... Did you even see how much damage I took even though I didn't have that much hp?

JackMcSnipeyz10 votes

You built 0 defense. You complaining about armor being meaningless is circle jerking a none existant issue in YOUR case. You didnt build armor, you cant expect to benefit from your none existant armor items.

If you wanna argue morde is weak - fine, i dont play morde, maybe he is - but this has nothing to do with armor, WHEN YOU HAD 0 ARMOR BUILT

Salron3 votes

"I wish this thing I bought 0 of meant something" And people wonder why Riot doesn't listen to this board

SugeMinPikk3 votes

Yep armor is the most worthless stat in the game XDDDDDD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grpXVpF3mf4 (21/7 JINX BTW)

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