Instead of buffing adc's

GigglesO·Dec 20, 2018·20 votes·10,653 views

What if we just let them play the game again by nerfing damage?

I'd really love to not be blown so hard all game.

Its not fun dying instantly as anyone.

35 Comments

Pierce The VealDec 20, 20183 votes

{quoted}

What if we just let them play the game again by nerfing damage?

I'd really love to not be blown so hard all game.

Its not fun dying instantly as anyone.

It’s not even fun to play most assassins anymore either because everyone has as much burst as you anyway. Maokai? He’ll 100-0 an adc no problem. Mundo? Same story.

And then there’s the “fighter” class, aka the better assassins that can also act as carries. Why should I play an assassin when irelia, jax, and camille don’t have silly delays put into their kit and arguably outdamage most assassins (freaking leblanc and rengar being the exceptions)

GigglesODec 20, 20181 votes

The “Everyone is an assassin” meta. Fun times. Fun times.

Anchorit WracajDec 20, 20182 votes

We all want to..but Riot betrayed the players.. They will tell u...go buy some skins give us money. Damage will only increase,and deff stats will be nerfed.Deal with it,or quit the game like I did.

ResterDec 20, 20181 votes

We'll probably have to wait and see what they have in store for crit itemization and stormrazor changes.

Now, that wont stop you from being oneshot. But it's kind of a start? I guess?

GigglesODec 20, 201813 votes

How is one shotting the enemy with an adc helping improve the league scene? We will just go back to league of adc's in every lane.

ResterDec 20, 20185 votes

{quoted}

How is one shotting the enemy with an adc helping improve the league scene? We will just go back to league of adc's in every lane.

I dont recall seeing ADCs in every lane, at least not in a single game. There were some dominant ones like Lucian mid for a while alongside Corki, and the whole Korean Ez Jungle Red Buff cheese.

GigglesODec 20, 201810 votes

There was that short time where you had.

Quinn/vayne top Lucian/Corki mid Ezreal/Draven adc MF/Ashe support Graves/kindred jungle

It wasn't unusual to see 4 adc's on a team each game.

KaìjuDec 20, 20183 votes

What I hate about that is everyone acted like that wasn't the first time ever you had a full marksman meta like that. We've had tanks and assassins and mages and even enchanters as the meta where you'll have 2 or 3 of them on team. But the one time we had 4 ADCs on a team people lost their shit, and it wasn't for super long.

GigglesODec 20, 20182 votes

If you kill the non-bursty melee champions too fast they actually just can't do anything.

Thats why everyone flipped shit over the marksmen meta. Its no fun for everyone that isn't ranged. Its also kinda how we got to this meta of assassins. (no I don't mean the champs, I mean burst per second on everyone)

chipndip1Dec 20, 20189 votes

{quoted}

There was that short time where you had.

Quinn/vayne top Lucian/Corki mid Ezreal/Draven adc MF/Ashe support Graves/kindred jungle

It wasn't unusual to see 4 adc's on a team each game.

No, it wasn't that extreme and you need to stop.

Ashe has always been a shit support and MF support was SPECIFICALLY to counter Zyra.

GigglesODec 20, 20182 votes

Still about 1 patch of this that had happened. Just because it didn’t last more than 2ish weeks doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

chipndip1Dec 20, 20186 votes

{quoted}

Still about 1 patch of this that had happened. Just because it didn’t last more than 2ish weeks doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

It didn't happen.

Lucian mid lane wasn't early season 7, which was when the whole "marksmen taking over every lane" thing happened, after their itemization changes at the time, and teams that meme'd with 3 marksmen in one comp were actually mouth-dribble stupid. There was never a time where having any more than 2 marksmen at a time was actually a "viable" draft. Ever.

Daddy AntsDec 20, 20182 votes

{quoted}

It didn't happen.

Lucian mid lane wasn't early season 7, which was when the whole "marksmen taking over every lane" thing happened, after their itemization changes at the time, and teams that meme'd with 3 marksmen in one comp were actually mouth-dribble stupid. There was never a time where having any more than 2 marksmen at a time was actually a "viable" draft. Ever.

Hell I remember trying a 5 marksmen composition with friends in normals last season and getting run over by the enemy team.

We had something like

Vayne Top Kindred Jungle Ezreal Mid Miss Fortune ADC Ashe Support

The enemy jungler hard camped our Vayne... wise decision to camp the hyper carry in the comp.

We lost the game in like 15 mins.

GigglesODec 20, 20181 votes

That’s the thing even if it was bad it **still happened ** and when it did work it was frustrating as hell to play against.

LordGeovanniDec 20, 20182 votes

I remember the same thing being the meta in season 6 and making melees almost literally unplayable.

saltranDec 20, 20182 votes

{quoted}

It didn't happen.

Lucian mid lane wasn't early season 7, which was when the whole "marksmen taking over every lane" thing happened, after their itemization changes at the time, and teams that meme'd with 3 marksmen in one comp were actually mouth-dribble stupid. There was never a time where having any more than 2 marksmen at a time was actually a "viable" draft. Ever.

And note: Lucian mid had a terrible soloQ stats even on high elos, he literally was only a pro play problem but I guess they saw Faker with Luciand and they think that in their silver games the same would happen.

3TWarriorDec 21, 20181 votes

actually, I forget if it was six or 7. You're right that it wasn't "that" extreme, but it wasn't uncommon to see 3 of the 5 positions occupied and graves occupied multiple lanes

I forget what the counter-strategies were, but season 6 was the start of all this madness and it only got worse

Baby GhoulDec 20, 20181 votes

{quoted}

There was that short time where you had.

Quinn/vayne top Lucian/Corki mid Ezreal/Draven adc MF/Ashe support Graves/kindred jungle

It wasn't unusual to see 4 adc's on a team each game.

We did have a short ADC meta where ADCs were picked in nearly everything except support.

The Ashe/MF support thing was specifically to counter how oppressive Zyra's plants were for a short period and only worked with Ashe. However, we're still haunted by that MF support pro counter pick to this day.

Graves and Kindred are better at jungling than going bot, and Quinn has been ~~abused~~ picked top lane rather than bot lane since at least season 4.

I agree though they have to do something about mage supports bot lane. They're really getting out of hand. It is bad enough that overloaded assassins can delete ADCs through heals and shields, but having that happen before you've even gotten a chance to play the game is just ridiculous and I'm surprised they haven't addressed it.

Daddy AntsDec 20, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Baby Ghoul,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9Bw8NLA1,comment-id=00000000000000000002,timestamp=2018-12-20T08:58:35.952+0000)

We did have a short ADC meta where ADCs were picked in nearly everything except support.

The Ashe/MF support thing was specifically to counter how oppressive Zyra's plants were for a short period and only worked with Ashe. However, we're still haunted that MF support pro counter pick to this day.

Graves and Kindred are better at jungling than going bot, and Quinn has been ~~abused~~ picked top lane rather than bot lane since at least season 4.

I agree though they have to do something about mage supports bot lane. They're really getting out of hand. It is bad enough that overloaded assassins can delete ADCs through heals and shields, but having that happen before you've even gotten a chance to play the game is just ridiculous and I'm surprised they haven't addressed it.

When they nerf Shields and don't reduce game wide damage that's usually what happens.

I'm hoping they do a pass on general damage in the game.

Runes are the biggest culprit imo.

saltranDec 20, 20181 votes

{quoted}

There was that short time where you had.

Quinn/vayne top Lucian/Corki mid Ezreal/Draven adc MF/Ashe support Graves/kindred jungle

It wasn't unusual to see 4 adc's on a team each game.

Quinn is balanced around solo lanes and sucks bot.

Vayne top is and has always been trash despise being unfun to play against, when bot Vayne has 54% winrate top Vayne has 49% with also way lower pickrate.

Lucian mid was meta for like 2/3 patchs and was gutted in answer, then he stayed trash for like 8 months on bot while also not being viable mid anymore. (note: it was trash on midlane for soloQ, only good on pro play)

Corki was reworked into an ap midlaner that sucks botlane, not sure if we can call him a marksman still.

MF supp was a counterpick to Zyra when she was the strongest supp in the game, only worked on pro play and as a counter pick along with Ashe adc.

Ashe supp is a meme that I wont even talk about.

Graves only has marksman in the name because he's playstyle and mechanics are the opposite than rest of adcs, he plays more like an ad jungler like Lee/ Xin

Kindred was released as a jungler and has never been played botlane.

As you can see, it's less simple that what you are trying to say, sure some marksman class champs can be played on solo lanes, but if you go to the botlane adcs the times they escape from botlane they are usually tunned down quickly.

GigglesODec 20, 20181 votes

That doesn’t negate that it still happened for 1-2ish patches

Baby GhoulDec 21, 20181 votes

{quoted}

That doesn’t negate that it still happened for 1-2ish patches

It didn't though.

Marksmen like Quinn, Graves, and Kindred are almost never played bot. I don't even know if Kindred was out then.

That "ADC meta" was really just certain marksmen like Ezreal and Lucian overwhelming midlane at the time while Graves was a prominent jungler. Quinn has always gone top, and Vayne has seen short periods of plaguing top lane as well. Those all just coincided. There was never a support marksmen during that same period though.

I don't think you can even count MF support regardless, and that event happened separately from the so-called ADC meta anyways.

The MF and Ashe bot lane comp was played for one game in a pro match to counter Zyra's plants. That was the entire purpose, and at the time it worked okay in that specific situation as long as Ashe was with her. What happened was people saw that, took it out of context, and started giving support mains free wins.

Buzzkillington0Dec 20, 20185 votes

The adc's that somehow escape botlane don't build crit (except corki but he is below trash tier anyway). Lucian mid had 45% winrate btw. When was the last time you saw Caitlyn Jinx top being meta? I'd just like to not be forced to build stormrazor every game to not be a cannon minion and actually be able to deal some damage before the game ends. Hell, I'd even be happy with the base stat revert.

GigglesODec 20, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Hell, I'd even be happy with the base stat revert.

I think we should revert all the way back to the base stats that champions had before runes reforged.

Buzzkillington0Dec 20, 20185 votes

Unfortunately, it seems like no revert is gonna happen because if there's one thing Riot can't do is admitting they made a mistake. It's probably gonna take like a year for this garbage ass version of essence reaver to get reworked again (fking RIP, you didn't deserve it). It was literally the definition of delayed power and nobody complained about it. Why change it? I don't get it. Might as well leave adc players with something that can help us influence the game in any way. Right now, the adc experience is: You didn't pick Lucian Kaisa Draven Jhin MissFortune ? Here's a free loss. Enemy picked Zyra ? Enjoy not being able to cs without the constant pressure of dying with a single combo. No problem, just wait until mid-game and I'll probably be able to do something... Oh wait they have Rengar Camille Pyke etc. Guess I deserve to die before i can launch the second auto. No problem, I'm close to my 3 item spike and I can actually be a carry. Oh wait the game is already over? It's not rare for me to finish a game as adc with 15-20k dmg dealt and see that my support dealt 30k+. EDIT: And no, I don't want to return to the dark ages when Tristana Twitch got hyper buffed by their supports and were 3-4 shotting anyone that dared to walk up. Ideally, reverting IE and reducing its AD and breaking the item 3087 + item 3094 interaction, nerfing 's dmg on champions and fleet footwork's healing would be all it took for adc to be a good spot. But as we all know, Riot loves doing what they don't need to.

GigglesODec 20, 20182 votes

I think you have a pretty fair assessment of why adc's can't play the game.

If they can't one shot the enemy assassin they die. If they can't one shot the enemy diver they die. The only reason those two statements hold true is because everyone is doing too much damage, so supports can't do their job anymore, and neither can peelers.

Hell, building defense is a noob trap. The defensive items actually may as well be removed from the game with how little they help.

Buzzkillington0Dec 20, 20182 votes

Exactly. Right now most of adc's problems come from Riot's bad decisions. These are:

Runes reforged adding unnecessary damage and the defensive stats are a fucking joke. +5 armor, +6 mr and +90 hp compared to +20 adaptive damage. Really?
Excessive cdr. When a fight breaks out, you have to be patient and wait for cd's on the main cc and hard damage abilities, but when every other item has cdr in it, your window to deal damage is like 3-5 seconds before you blow up.
Every single recent champ has some sort of mobilty spell or hard cc. If you get cc'd, you die.
Terrible itemization on top of the fact that nobody is picking tanks, which is what they changed adc's for: killing tanks.
Banshee's veil is gone. It was precious to deny a whole spell from the full ap malphite or the leblanc or whatever.

ChaosThiefDec 21, 20181 votes

You do realize riot has done reverts, albeit rarely, right? Among the marksmen, you actually have an example: KogMaw . Granted, it was a partial revert, since the ult change was kept between the reworks, among other things.

There was also the revert of Leblanc , but neither of those designs were really... great. Old (or should I say current?) Leblanc just pretty much unloaded when you got in range, and the reworked one pretty much just threw out spells and camped you out until the passive triggered.

Also, side note, all of those marksmen don't really build the traditional crit build, do they? Meaning they don't have the delayed spike of power that the others have to suffer through.

SkreameDec 20, 20181 votes

In my opinion, ADC's would be perfectly fine if games lasted longer and tanks were move prevalent in solo-queue. The problem is longer games isn't always desirable from players and buffing tanks usually means they become busted in professional play.

saltranDec 20, 20183 votes

{quoted}

In my opinion, ADC's would be perfectly fine if games lasted longer and tanks were move prevalent in solo-queue. The problem is longer games isn't always desirable from players and buffing tanks usually means they become busted in professional play.

Tanks on soloQ can only be great when they are busted because soloQ players play tanks like if they are palying bruisers.