That Cho'gath's ult buff at PBE is totally unnecessary.......

BeatzBoyFTW·Oct 16, 2015·30 votes·2,136 views

He already gains back half of his mana cost & cooldown when eating minions & monsters to gain one stack, meaning he can gain a quick 6 stacks in just a few minutes. Why on earth would he still need a 2 stack on champion kills for?

Plus, I don't get the logic of needing to give him yet another heal on his ult when his passive already does the part. Do you HAVE to give every new champion's/tentative changed champion's ult a heal just for the fun of it? First you gave heals to Q, then on the ults of , and then BOOM. Gave Cho'gath a heal as well on his ult cz......why not right?

34 Comments

Little Stick ManOct 16, 201510 votes

at least for cho it makes sense, like hes eating something and digesting it for health, but why the fuck does darius swinging his axe really hard heal him?

Rustling BushOct 16, 20152 votes

inb4 darius turns out to be a descendant of darkin/ancestor of aatrox.

Kitten of EvilOct 16, 20151 votes

Let the lore retcon begin!

LadyRenlyOct 16, 20157 votes

why was he even a priority? i seriously doubt people were begging for one to begin with. He's annoying to play against. He was completely fine

SnugglePuggle94Oct 16, 20155 votes

Stop hating. It just gives him more survive-ability in lane. It's NOT A DAMAGE INCREASE. Just a QoL. He is slow, has a skillshot Q that is easy to dodge, and prone to being kited, so no matter what good you say about him, these buffs are totally NECESSARY.

His ult already healed him. Now it just heals for more.

I agree, the Darius, Fiora, Kindred stuff was not needed, but this QoL will not make a big difference in game. Just like Vayne's damage nerf, people will barely think anything is apart.

Stop qqing.

BeatzBoyFTWOct 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Stop hating. It just gives him more survive-ability in lane. It's NOT A DAMAGE INCREASE. Just a QoL. He is slow, has a skillshot** Q that is easy to dodge,** and prone to being kited, so no matter what good you say about him, these buffs are totally NECESSARY.

Darius

And people cried about him being OP due to his heal. Let's not do the same to Chogath, or else it's just twice the amount of QQ threads at Boards with Darius/Chogath combined.

SnugglePuggle94Oct 16, 20152 votes

Cho has his passive heal so it makes sense to give him a little more. Darius had no heal at all, so it makes no sense. Cho will not be OP, the buffs will not make that much of a difference.

Just stop.

BeatzBoyFTWOct 16, 20153 votes

Darius is highly item dependant in order to get himself tanky, whereas Chogath can simply eat 6 stacks to get bonus HP for himself. With this type of HP-infuse ability, it gives Chogath some space to build other non-HP items like item 3110 item 3190 , or worse, getting item 3065 to boost his healing.

And if you're to give him the "2 stack on champion kill" on Chogath, you're just boosting his early game even more stronger. Cho may be somewhat easy to kill due to his immobility, but a skilled Cho player can abuse this ult buff & get himself way ahead of other people who are still in the midst of completing their item. What's more is that since he could gain stacks faster, he can simply sustain in-lane or teamfights even better by ulting a nearby enemy unit. The healing would be simply outrageous combined with this build item 3065 .

I don't know what kind if argument you're giving me. You're literally telling that "this guy has this so he should get more, while this guy has none of it so he deserves nothing at all". I don't see any sense in this.

SnugglePuggle94Oct 16, 20152 votes

Most Cho's have to decide between getting a kill or stacking their ult to 6 real quick. If they play in a lane, they want to get a kill over their laner, their jungler ganks, and their ult is their finishing move. Sometimes they might misjudge the health and ult and it doesn't kill them, therefore having to wait til it's off CD to use it again-that also contributes to it, he has to wait for it to get off CD everytime he uses it, so by the time he has 6 stacks if he uses it everytime to stack and not a kill, a Darius should be pretty tanky by then. Even a skilled Cho like me (I'm level 5), I don't go for 6 stacks right away. I get ROA first item, so that helps me get tanky while I get some kills.

Darius was never given a heal in his kit before his rework so people complain about it. It's not needed. With Cho it's more like, "Oh I can see that happening on him." As it's already part of his kit in his small passive. Darius had none. So why does he get one when it makes no sense for his kit?

That's why I'm arguing against you and others.

AHeroNamedHawkeOct 16, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Most Cho's have to decide between getting a kill or stacking their ult to 6 real quick. If they play in a lane, they want to get a kill over their laner, their jungler ganks, and their ult is their finishing move. Sometimes they might misjudge the health and ult and it doesn't kill them, therefore having to wait til it's off CD to use it again-that also contributes to it, he has to wait for it to get off CD everytime he uses it, so by the time he has 6 stacks if he uses it everytime to stack and not a kill, a Darius should be pretty tanky by then. Even a skilled Cho like me (I'm level 5), I don't go for 6 stacks right away. I get ROA first item, so that helps me get tanky while I get some kills.

Darius was never given a heal in his kit before his rework so people complain about it. It's not needed. With Cho it's more like, "Oh I can see that happening on him." As it's already part of his kit in his small passive. Darius had none. So why does he get one when it makes no sense for his kit?

That's why I'm arguing against you and others.

Because Darius was worthless garbage, being a sustained damage fighter with no inherent tankiness or sustain?

And its already an 80/40 second cooldown, shorter than 90% of top laners ults. How is Darius going to be "pretty tanky" in a whole 4 minutes of farming? Thats a giant's belt at best

Not having to choose between stacking and killing (your "but I suck and miss the kill with it!" doesnt apply, it has a fucking indicator for when its lethal) is a ridiculous buff, and adding a 300 health heal on top of that is just going full retard

SnugglePuggle94Oct 16, 20151 votes

Darius is a fucking tank. Pre-work he was not garbage. Stop making yourself look like a fool. He can get pretty tanky by starting to farm at level 1 like every one else does. He will still be farming while Cho hits 6, then he has to wait for him to hit 6 stacks. That's a whole lot more than "4 minutes" you idiot. If a good Darius is good at CSing, he should have a good bit of money by then. Also, besides the choosing between stacking and killing, it can take longer for him to hit 6 stacks when the enemy jungler ganks, or if he's being camped or focused, or if the team is having trouble and Cho has to come in to help. A lot of things can sidetrack a Cho and it can be past the 30 min mark by the time he reaches 6 stacks, and if a Darius is not a fucking tank by then, then he sucks balls.

People can still miss the ult kill. He's slow and the rush of the team fight can be crazy. Some can see another is low but then see more people coming in and have to rush to ult and get out, and it might not be the kill. It does apply, don't ever say it doesn't. The heal is not a big buff at all. Just stop. It will barely make that much of a difference in gameplay, just like the damage nerf to Vayne, she's still gonna be the most annoying ADC in the game. It will not hurt her and this QoL will not chance the gameplay much for Cho.

It helps him survive in lane better. Now stop fighting against me. You are just making yourself look bad.

AHeroNamedHawkeOct 16, 20151 votes

[deleted]

SnugglePuggle94Oct 16, 20151 votes

And you bring my rank into this. Reported. Every person that argues against me uses that tactic. It's a cheap shot that is quite mean to take at someone.

I know about the indicator on his ult. Stop insinuating that I suck at him. Cho was one of the first ones that I mastered.

Like I said, if a Cho is taking a while to get his stacks, then Darius can get tanky in that amount of time. Good Lord. Who knows why Riot is deciding to buff him but it's probably not all because some people are bad. Maybe they just see that overall this will help or something.

Stop being rude.

Insane PyromanicOct 16, 20151 votes

Dude, unless someone posts porn or threatens you, forum reports aren't there for people offending you. They just annoy the mods.

AHeroNamedHawkeOct 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

And you bring my rank into this. Reported. Every person that argues against me uses that tactic. It's a cheap shot that is quite mean to take at someone.

I know about the indicator on his ult. Stop insinuating that I suck at him. Cho was one of the first ones that I mastered.

Like I said, if a Cho is taking a while to get his stacks, then Darius can get tanky in that amount of time. Good Lord. Who knows why Riot is deciding to buff him but it's probably not all because some people are bad. Maybe they just see that overall this will help or something.

Stop being rude.

You mastered him so much that you cant win with him at the lowest Elo in the game LOL

SnugglePuggle94Oct 17, 20151 votes

Wow. Reported.

SorryBoysImLesOct 16, 20153 votes

{quoted}

And people cried about him being OP due to his heal. Let's not do the same to Chogath, or else it's just twice the amount of QQ threads at Boards with Darius/Chogath combined.

It's nothing even closely comparable to Darius.

Darius can heal for disgusting amounts with a 3 second CD.

Cho-gath can heal, for max (end-game level 3 Feast) 1300..IF he kills the target with his ult and only if he happens to have 6 stacks.

Now if Darius's heal was "If Darius's target has 5 stacks of Noxian Might and kills his target with Noxian Guillotine, he'll be healed for double the damage dealt." In fact, that would've been the intelligent way to go if they even wanted to give Darius a heal.

KONO RUBICK DAOct 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It's nothing even closely comparable to Darius.

Darius can heal for disgusting amounts with a 3 second CD.

Cho-gath can heal, for max (end-game level 3 Feast) 1300..IF he kills the target with his ult and only if he happens to have 6 stacks.

Now if Darius's heal was "If Darius's target has 5 stacks of Noxian Might and kills his target with Noxian Guillotine, he'll be healed for double the damage dealt." In fact, that would've been the intelligent way to go if they even wanted to give Darius a heal.

Cho gat only heal for 300 not 1300 are you alright?

NemeBroOct 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Stop hating. It just gives him more survive-ability in lane. It's NOT A DAMAGE INCREASE. Just a QoL. He is slow, has a skillshot Q that is easy to dodge, and prone to being kited, so no matter what good you say about him, these buffs are totally NECESSARY.

His ult already healed him. Now it just heals for more.

I agree, the Darius, Fiora, Kindred stuff was not needed, but this QoL will not make a big difference in game. Just like Vayne's damage nerf, people will barely think anything is apart.

Stop qqing.

A direct increase in his survivability through an increase in numbers, as well as an increase in his stacking through increasing how many stacks he gets from his ult is not a QoL buff. It's just a buff.

Cho'gath didn't need this buff. He needs no buffs at all.

And before any of you motherfuckers call me biased, I'm a mid lane Cho main, with him easily being the champion I'm best at. Cho'gath has no real hard counters in lane save maybe Vel'koz (and even then, your full combo will kill him). He didn't need a buff to his survivability. He has some of the lowest average amounts of deaths in top or mid lane.

SnugglePuggle94Oct 16, 20151 votes

He wasn't given increase in damage numbers. For him, it's a QoL, not really a buff. He's the most balanced right now and some can argue why he needs it more than others or not but it's not that big of a deal.

Cho in top or jungle can have a harder time as there are more counters. I have had my fair share of games that didn't go well because they countered me. It also depends on what Riot saw in higher level play, and if a lot of Cho's were having trouble, then it makes sense they are helping his surviveability.

NemeBroOct 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

He wasn't given increase in damage numbers. For him, it's a QoL, not really a buff. He's the most balanced right now and some can argue why he needs it more than others or not but it's not that big of a deal.

Cho in top or jungle can have a harder time as there are more counters. I have had my fair share of games that didn't go well because they countered me. It also depends on what Riot saw in higher level play, and if a lot of Cho's were having trouble, then it makes sense they are helping his surviveability.

Who cares if he wasn't given an increase in damage numbers? A numerical buff to his survivability is not a QoL buff. QoL buffs don't numerically improve a champion. This buff does. He can now get one more stack if he eats a champion (making the choice between Feasting a minion or Feasting a champion brain-dead, do the one that gets you the kill obviously), and he now is more survivable in lane and in team fights.

Cho top is arguably a bit on the weak side, but that's because most buffs to Cho top would bring Cho mid into the realm of "too strong". And do you know why Cho top is arguably weak? Because his damage fell off like a sack of bricks. This change doesn't really help top Cho as much as they'd like, but it makes a snowballing mid Cho more infuriating because if he eats your Carry at six stacks he gets to heal even more. And mid Cho has far more kill pressure than top Cho.

SnugglePuggle94Oct 16, 20151 votes

I don't see it being a big difference. You all are taking it out of proportion, good Lord.

1000angrybeesOct 17, 20151 votes

QoL is for clarification purposes and general clean-up. Do not disguise buffs as clarity changes, please.

SnugglePuggle94Oct 18, 20151 votes

It's not a buff really...

LuggOct 16, 20153 votes

Cho really needs a bit of a rework more than anything. He is pretty binary right now. He either hard counters or gets hard countered.

MisterHealYoGirlOct 16, 20152 votes

I think the goal was to encourage him to take more risks; like you said, he has no real reason to go for aggressive plays when he could just farm up on minions.

PupelOct 16, 20151 votes

I dont think riot's first concern for buffs or nerfs is what the community thinks because the community is kinda bias

Hayaishi2Oct 16, 20151 votes

Can Varus' Q heal him per unit hit? pls

BeatzBoyFTWOct 16, 20151 votes

He's one of the rare champions who possesses Grievous Wounds, so he doesn't need it.

Hayaishi2Oct 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

He's one of the rare champions who possesses Grievous Wounds, so he doesn't need it.

obviously a joke.

OrangesilkOct 16, 20151 votes

Gameplay & Bronze has a serious bias against the Cho, right now he's at his weakest because Vayne is at her strongest and she's basically a hardcounter, but since the inbreds in here can't seem to dodge the circle with the HUGE delay, they will complain about him forever.

ZT XperimentorOct 16, 20151 votes

Do you realize how many anti-tank champions there are? Vayne, ekko, fiora, fizz, yasou, kindred, ext.

ProfirixOct 16, 20151 votes

Another person overreacting. These other posts make great points about how he is a very binary champion and really only does well in low ELO. He is not a prime pick in the upper echelons and in the pro scene because he is pretty much a juggernaut that gets bullied very hard early game and never lives to see the fruits of his labors for stacking Feast. Consider his current opponents for top lane match-ups: Gnar and Darius. Cho'gath can't do anything in that lane without huge risk to himself.

BaunjoOct 16, 20151 votes

I can see what they were trying to do with his ult by giving him 2 stacks on champion kills. Cho'gath players simply were not really using his ult on champions that much until he had 6 stacks. After all, it's not like he will lose any scaling by doing that, in fact his scaling is even more reliable. So basically the 2 stacks gave him more insentive to use it on champions.

The heal however is honestly a frustration to me. I feel cho'gath is in a pretty healthy state right now, which honestly may sounds contradictory to the above statement, but all they are doing with the 2 stack is rounding his play a little more.