Cassiopeia change(please)

ILoveTiramisu·Sep 18, 2014·3 votes·950 views

Passive: I think passive need only to empower cassio's E like: Your E deals +5% damage and heals by X per cast. More easy to stacks: Every time you cast E, you gain a stack, if you kill an unit refunds half mana costs. [farm-mechanics] (...) Q I think is you don't wanna Q deals high damage early game, it can deals % magic damage instead. [low damage early, great scaling late] W It need to deals high base damage, like in 4.15 patch. E Cassiopeia need to max it first and spam it. Please, increments base damage and low mana cost in team fight. 60/90/120/150/180(equal ratio 40-60) I think he need to costs like 30-50 mana per cast. No more refund mana. R like in 4.15

14 Comments

The Queen ViperSep 18, 20143 votes

It would be just easier and better for all of us to revert all the unnecessary changes and bring the old Cass back. Nobody asked these changes, nobody wants these changes.

Acidic PuddleSep 18, 20141 votes

Nobody played Cass before though, I played in 1 game with her in the past 3 months before the rework. Something definitely needed to change. There was a reason nobody played her, and so the rework was necessary.

Tapu FiniSep 18, 20142 votes

At least she was somewhat close to viable. Needed number tweaking, and the QoL changes (twin fang reset on cast, not hit, ult hitbox adjusted.) Twin fang's mana refund doesn't really make up for her old passive outside of the laning phase. The only thing that really feels like an actual buff is the Twin Fang heal, and that's terribly minor compared to how hard they butchered her.

From what I understand, this update was aimed at giving her viability and a niche, both of which they missed horrendously, unless "Glorified Minion pre-35 minutes" is a niche.

The Queen ViperSep 18, 20142 votes

Yes, there was a reason why nobody played her... the reason being that she was hard to play and hard to master. It took a lot of dedication to play her well. Majority of people sucking/feeding when player her shouldn't be a reason to rework champions.

Popularity ≠ Viability.

She was just fine before, now she sucks and it doesn't matter who plays her... even Faker couldn't do much with this new Cass; she's so trash now.

Lord Graves IIISep 19, 20141 votes

Its does at pro level. Cass was once pick or ban and people seem to forget that.

AbiwonKenabiSep 18, 20142 votes

I know a Diamond player who really enjoyed playing Cass. When I asked him why he didn't play her, he basically said, "She's not strong enough against most matchups." This is from a Morgana mid main who played Morgana even before she was ban worthy again, and his second pick is Lux to boot; my point being he doesn't play super OP champions exclusively, just champions he enjoys. And he still didn't play Cassiopeia.

ILoveTiramisuSep 18, 20141 votes

She is like kha'zix after first nerf, she need to buff her best damage ability I think.

However, she has a very very bad early, she is like urgot for me.

Impossible matchup against none. Low damage early, low damage late.

The Queen ViperSep 18, 20141 votes

It depends how good someone was with Cass... actually there were only few matchups for the old Cass that were somewhat hard. Otherwise, nah, she could do just fine against most of the champions, even the popular "meta picks"... when played well.

Tapu FiniSep 18, 20142 votes

Anyone with high mobility, or high range, beats her out of lane. Her only real fallback was safe farming with noxious blast and miasma, both of which they handily nerfed.

Now, her miasma is only really good for the constant poison, lets you get twin fang off without worry. She has never been capable of spamming twin fang on anyone that could fight back, it was extra damage you could sneak in once in a while if you were safe. She's forced to rely on it for any kind of damage now. Its short range and low damage puts her in a very dangerous position, with very little payout.

Basically, they took away any ability to be safe or trade in her lane, with a small sustain boost and extremely irrelevant movespeed boost+slow increase as compensation. Plus, some QoL changes that should've never been an issue.

KSHarrisonSep 18, 20142 votes

Isn't farming with E a form of laning safe? Before, you sacrificed all lane presence and became essentially non-interacting, which is poor gameplay, when you maxed Q to passively farm. Now, you can rank an ability that you can actually trade with and use it to help farm.

I'm sure there will be tuning to come. The idea is whether or not she is conceptually in a healthier spot. The number tweaks and minor changes can come once they have a wider pool for data collection.

The Queen ViperSep 18, 20142 votes

Isn't farming with E a form of laning safe?

No. E still has rather low range, so against champs like Xerath, Syndra, Yasuo... you simply cannot farm if they are near. Would be too easy for them to just poke you out of the lane.

Before, you sacrificed all lane presence and became essentially non-interacting, which is poor gameplay, when you maxed Q to passively farm.

Actually many of us used Q to harass, not only farm. In some match ups there was a really good reason why you wouldn't never max E first, like against certain assassins for example... you simply cannot be so close to them / trade with E, since they would just kill you.

Now, you can rank an ability that you can actually trade with and use it to help farm.

Nope, not really... until you get a mana item, your mana is simply not enough for you to do both. Either you farm and use your E to mana sustain, or you trade and go OOM.

The idea is whether or not she is conceptually in a healthier spot.

However she's not in a healthier spot. Current trash version of Cass is no way near healthier... not only does she encourage passive play from you and non interactive play from your opponent (ultimately denies Cass stacks), your passive makes you intentionally and purposefully prolong the game instead of ending it ASAP. There's no reason to pick champions that have zero impact during early/mid game besides ADC (and they have a support for a reason) and which also requires your team to carry team into the late game before they start doing something. One of the reasons why Poppy and Nasus are also a rare sight.

KSHarrisonSep 19, 20141 votes

No. E still has rather low range, so against champs like Xerath, Syndra, Yasuo... you simply cannot farm if they are near. Would be too easy for them to just poke you out of the lane.

Isn't this something most mid laners suffer from? Those are some of the most punishing or poke heavy champs.

Actually many of us used Q to harass, not only farm. In some match ups there was a really good reason why you wouldn't never max E first, like against certain assassins for example...

I agree it helped her navigate poor match ups because she could passively farm. Q seems like unreliable harass or at least difficult to have any realistic chance of kill pressure.

But still, interesting points. I don't main her so I can't argue on level with someone who does. It definitely gave me something to think about, so thanks very much for that.

Oh and I did find this earlier today:

https://twitter.com /SHCSELFIE/status/512701476599103488

Might be interesting for Cass players looking to adapt.

Skia AsteriSep 20, 20142 votes

Before, you sacrificed all lane presence and became essentially non-interacting, which is poor gameplay, when you maxed Q to passively farm.

I pray I am never on a team with you. Engaging opponents you cannot hope to win against is a sure way to feed. And there are champions better at safe farming that Cass ever was (Xerath is one that comes to mind, very long range and good wave clear AoE).

The idea is whether or not she is conceptually in a healthier spot.

Poppy is in a healthier state. Her late game potential (Poppy is not a hyper carry at full build, she is God) actually justifies her poor early game, and she is capable of getting there by being played well. Cass has very meh late game now because she is only good in duels due to the nerfs to her AoE unless she lands a good ult. And she will only get there before the game ends if her opponent lets her.