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Annie ( A qq thread)

Tavish··11 votes·1,203 views

Yes I am QQing, and my name has Zed in it. Take your shots if you'd like, I have a good feeling I will be downvoted to oblivion, but I think I have some good points.

Can we please do something about Annie? I just can't stand how she can literally hold on to her stun in lane and zone you without any kind of counter play. Worst yet, if you get ahead of her early it really won't matter because she gets pretty tanky after going rod of ages and just does absurd amounts of damage with a devastating R that also stuns.

If she is 6, and you are in a lane against her you can't do anything, and it's not like you can QSS her ult either, because the burst on it kills you out right. I just want some kind of timer on her stun so she can't zone you from the wave without burning some kind of ability. You are in a lose-lose situation. You go in, and she unloads a combo on you, killing you or forcing you back, or you lose wave after wave. When I play against Annie they hold there stun for 2, or 3+ minutes at a time while freezing the lane, forcing you to burn all of your abilities (mana) to get any CS at all or die to her instantly, if she has flash up this is even worse.

I can't really think of any other stun that does that much damage. TF? Maybe, but you can't go RoA on him or you do no damage. Morg? Nah because she takes time to ramp up on her R, and her Q is a skillshot so you atleast have some chance of avoiding that, plus that's a snare. Side note: I think it is kind of crazy to call Annie's ult a "skillshot", it doesn't have cast time and the AoE is so forgiving. It's a point and click.

I don't think I am biased towards burst mages either, I think Brand, for example, is fine, he has a stun and a TON of damage. When I die to Brand though I don't feel like "Well, that's just Brand, if he goes in, I just die." which is exactly how I feel about Annie, and I know a lot of other people feel the same way. It's just incredibly frustrating to play against. It's not just by chance that Annie has survived through all sorts of metas and gets played in support, mid, and top in all different regions. She just has a crazy good R that you really can't do much about unless she makes a monumental blunder and on top of that, her laning phase is just so brutal because of the stun.

Anyone else kind of know where I am coming from? Or am I just a noob? How do I play against this if the ladder, because I really just get so frustrated with her, I just don't enjoy it. I hate every second of the laning phase, team fights, and game when Annie is in it.

38 Comments

Trash MammaI7 votes

I'll agree that support annie holding stun is pretty freaking annoying but mid lane annie, no. I've played and played against her a great number of times. All you have to do is wait for her to use a single spell (pre-6) and you can go in and bully her hard.

If she doesn't get that refund on her Q she can be extremely easy to kill. If she uses her W at all for farming she can be utterly destroyed. Post 6 you need to make sure the minute you see her stun go down to harass her as much as possible. Most annies wont dare use tibbers without their stun and if they do it's out of panic.

Also if you're playing an ad champ get hexdrinker first. Nothing else. It shuts her down haard

LegacyDAP2 votes

I completely agree that Annie is a hard laning opponent, and I'd say a little below borderline OP. The only great thing about her is her strong engage, and burst. If she uses her abilities to cs that makes her an extremely vulnerable target, and she will most likely be nerfed soon. I honestly have no idea though if she will be nerfed so don't get your hopes up.

Tavish3 votes

{quoted}

I completely agree that Annie is a hard laning opponent, and I'd say a little below borderline OP. The only great thing about her is her strong engage, and burst. If she uses her abilities to cs that makes her an extremely vulnerable target, and she will most likely be nerfed soon. I honestly have no idea though if she will be nerfed so don't get your hopes up.

Ya you are right about the burning abilities makes her weak, but the problem is that good Annie's won't do that. They will just hold onto their stun until they know they can kill you with it. This also essentially freezes the lane, which is even more devastating.

LegacyDAP2 votes

Yeah, you'll have to hope she's dumb, and doesn't roam, and you have to help other lanes while she's staying mid, and ask for jungler's help.

YOLOswagLYFgg4202 votes

Ya it's kind of sad that the only way to beat annie is to literally not lane against her :P

LegacyDAP1 votes

Or beat Fire with Fire Brand

Anidan1 votes

If she holds onto the stun at mid lane, she has no waveclear whatsoever. Push her to her tower and then roam. Her options are then to stay and push the lane back, blowing her stun in the process, or leave her tower to take free damage, lose CS, and follow you and try to sweep up what's left of the fight by the time her slow, immobile self gets there. In all this, it's possible for her to get nothing from the roam meaning she lost CS for nothing, wasted time, and let the tower take damage all because she held on to her stun.

It's support Annie that's bullshit about the stun, not mid lane. And even then, Annie as a support is one of the few reliable counters to a mobility meta that's come about due to more and more of its counters being rid of, while being a good teamfight support. If you nerf her, you buff the mobility meta even more. Unless more reliable mobility counters come out, it'd be a bad idea to nerf her.

Tavish1 votes

{quoted}

If she holds onto the stun at mid lane, she has no waveclear whatsoever. Push her to her tower and then roam. Her options are then to stay and push the lane back, blowing her stun in the process, or leave her tower to take free damage, lose CS, and follow you and try to sweep up what's left of the fight by the time her slow, immobile self gets there. In all this, it's possible for her to get nothing from the roam meaning she lost CS for nothing, wasted time, and let the tower take damage all because she held on to her stun.

It's support Annie that's bullshit about the stun, not mid lane. And even then, Annie as a support is one of the few reliable counters to a mobility meta that's come about due to more and more of its counters being rid of, while being a good teamfight support. If you nerf her, you buff the mobility meta even more. Unless more reliable mobility counters come out, it'd be a bad idea to nerf her.

Here is my thing, sometimes you don't have the wave clear and/or mana to shove the lane up, and a lot of times you have to actually get close to the lane freeze which means annie can blow her load all over your face.

The mobility meta is kind of coming to an end I believe. There is a ton of hard CC out there now, so needing that much CC with that much damage (Annie's R) is kind of strange. I mean look at the popular jungle and support picks now days: Nautilus Sejuani Nunu

Anidan1 votes

Those supports don't herald the end of the mobility meta, they make it harder for immobile champions to do anything. We saw that before - last time they were prevalent, you almost HAD to use a mobile champion or die doing nothing. Ever get ganked by Nautilus as Annie? Now what about when you're someone like Ezreal. Very big difference in the outcome.

Tavish1 votes

{quoted}

Those supports don't herald the end of the mobility meta, they make it harder for immobile champions to do anything. We saw that before - last time they were prevalent, you almost HAD to use a mobile champion or die doing nothing. Ever get ganked by Nautilus as Annie? Now what about when you're someone like Ezreal. Very big difference in the outcome.

I'm not sure I understand your argument

"Annie a counter to the mobility meta, because she offers cc. All the other counters have been changed"

"Naut, Nunu and Sej enforce the mobility meta because they offer cc."

Anidan1 votes

There will never be an end to the mobility meta - just a shift in the dynamics of said meta. Mobility is the name of the game, and everything within said game is what changes. Any counter to mobility counters the immobile even harder, so people like Nautilus, Annie, Nunu and Sej are even more harmful to the immobile so mobility becomes even more prevalent.

Annie, Nautilus, Nunu and Sej, however, are also countering some of the aspects of it, but none all of it individually. Targetted CC hurts both the mobile and the immobile inequally, with the immobile being hurt more because the mobile person can react to the CC and attempt to get out of harm's way as it's happening. There will likely never be an "immobile" meta ever again.

Annie is the best of a bad situation. Nerfing her makes the situation worse. Also, interesting fact: Nunu and Annie, largely regarded as counters to certain champions with mobility, have no built in dashes or blinks of their own, and Nunu only gets a movespeed increase. The other two listed have mobility built into their kits, as well as CC, making them even more damning for the immobile. (seriously though, try to escape a Sej gank as Annie... it may not happen even with Flash.)

Alljoy2 votes

she can literally hold on to her stun in lane and zone you without any kind of counter play.

I remember Riot took away Sona's permanent auras and changed Janna's passive because they were 'weeding out invisible power'. I wonder if they'll come to see Annie's ability to hold on to her stun and zone as an instance of that. I wish they would give it the Twisted Fate treatment so both her and her opponent can make use of that window of opportunity.

Sirsir4 votes

Its very visible power, little swirlies.

But yeah she really does need something to gate it. At least TF gold zone couldn't CS without using mana to Q. Then he would eventually have to use blue cards which would lead to an opening for the opponent. Annie can hold it forever and rely on basic CS mechanics.

Alljoy1 votes

I don't think they were talking about literal visibility when they made the comment or else they would've made the Sona and Janna changes with Clarity as the reasoning.

qetzel2 votes

Sona and Janna had invisible power because it was hard to notice. You don't really notice 5% movement speed if you always have it, an AD or AP boost is great but you don't really notice it. It just makes you stronger.

Annie's passive, however, you notice. The threat of a sudden stun is there. It changes the way you play and the way she plays. It is visible.

Narasimha1 votes

Invisible power tends to refers to abilities that aren't very apparent, but tend to have a stronger impact than expected. TF's old passive, for example. Annie's stun isn't invisible because it is very apparent, and the impact is exactly as expected.

Dies to Wolves2 votes

I think annie is a very retarded champion

And I also think it's retarded that veigar isn't allowed to instant stun people but Annie is, considering both can proceed to insta burst their targets At least his stun required some aiming

Reikken1 votes

if she's holding stun, push the wave into her tower. if she's in front of her minions to where you can't even reach them with your spells, gank is the correct answer

or just hit her with your spells from out of her range

Gunslinger7441 votes

As far as I know Xerath is a good pick against her, but yeah they did overbuff her to get her out of the support role. Even though I can't stand Zed and anything that can ruin his day is good to me, this is a bit crazy.

wRZcGiWq621 votes

You must be the worst Zed ever, if annie loses first kill in lane and Zed rushes a hexdrinker its gg. Your tears have no validity except to release frustration from the fact that you are bad.

Sirsir2 votes

His name is Zed, hes not playing Zed.

qetzel1 votes

He may be. Do we know for sure?

Sire Hippington2 votes

i use annie as a counter to zed mid, actually vs most assasins... the only thing annie struggles against are mid/long range mages as she'S shortranged and lacks mobillity.

wRZcGiWq621 votes

I do too, then you would know that if that Zed gets a kill or two up on you-- then you are in trouble for a good 10-15 mins unless your jungle camps and gets successful back-to-back ganks.

Buttigieg 20201 votes

Support Annie is op af. But mid annie? You can play any Mage and just push it to her tower, she either has to use her stun to CS or miss all the CS.

iamthegoatofwar1 votes

if you learn how to AA with any champion this becomes no issue expert swains would be proof of this.

qetzel1 votes

Perhaps she will get nerfed sometime. It is annoying, that is for sure.

In the meantime, have you tried strategic counterplay? Don't let her freeze the lane. Try to manage the minions such that they will always hit a turret, either yours or Annie's.

Tavish1 votes

I feel frustrated against Annie if I play anyone, I played an Ori game about a week ago where basically I got forced to sit under tower, because Annie would just hold stun, and if I tried to poke her one Q W later all my mana would be gone, and meanwhile she rushed a RoA so my poke was pretty useless and she could still kill me literally every 5 minutes when her flash was up. I couldn't roam either in fear of losing my tower. Same thing happened with Kat. If they go even with you and get to item 3010 and/or item 1026 your lane is over, might as well not go back there.

I will agree that support Annie is even more annoying than mid, but I hate her in both lanes. I just happen to play mid more, which is why I'm talking about her in that context. I think most of the same problems apply to her in mid/top/sup Annie.

I think my best analogy would be Yasuo, people would find him very annoying if Riot suddenly changed his Q so that he could hold onto his empowered Q tornado thing forever (whatever it's called again)

Kitten of Evil1 votes

She's quite weak against long-ranged mages. Lux, Xerath, Ziggs. Also she isn't great against pushers, since she can't hold onto her stun and still farm. Brand destroys her, probably because Tibbers is a liability when he ults an Annie (it can bounce between them), and Brand's W hits hard and deals a good bit of damage.

Martyrofsand1 votes

I'll tell you what all you zed mains likes to say when I point out how a Zed with Cutlass can free kill most mid laners, even if they buy Seekers.

clears throat

L2take exhaust instead of ignite.

Tavish1 votes

{quoted}

I'll tell you what all you zed mains likes to say when I point out how a Zed with Cutlass can free kill most mid laners, even if they buy Seekers.

clears throat

L2take exhaust instead of ignite.

Actually back when everyone starter picking Zed all the time (about 2 months ago), I made a massive post about how riot SHOULD nerf Zed.

EDIT:

My point is, yes Zed could use some work, you could say that both these champs are cancer, but Zed is a melanoma while Annie is a brain tumor.

Martyrofsand1 votes

If you specified that support Annie was a cancer I wouldn't argue but to try and preach mid lane Annie as a cancer when she gets utterly destroyed by the likes of Orianna/Azir/Xerath/Ziggs/damn near any mage with some assemblance of range is just igorance. Annie mid is good against assassins who have to jump on top of her and stay in her medium range in order to try and kill her.

Also that you actually think Zed is only a mild cancer is just laughable. Zed/Yasuo/Kalista/Lee and all the other mobility creeped BS has been perpetually the most toxic thing riot has released in the history of this game, and that includes the original TF, at least they had the common sense to realize how BS that was now they just need to wake up and do the same with the rest of these idiotic hyper mobile champs.

Kitten of Evil1 votes

Push your lane hard against Annie. She'll be forced to use her stun and her Qs to farm under tower.

Of course, she also counters a lot of the assassins, because of her point-and-click stun. And that's a good thing, imo. Assassins need counters just like everyone else does.

She's extremely weak against long-range mages, and if you can get a jungle gank to eat her flash, she can't do anything once she hits 6 (since her combo is Flash + Tibbers).

DanofDemacia1 votes

You use zed stfu

Tavish1 votes

{quoted}

You use zed stfu

Nice ad hominem brah.

DanofDemacia1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Garlic Bread Zed,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8PPt0BRq,comment-id=000c0000,timestamp=2015-04-11T17:01:11.395+0000)

Nice ad hominem brah.

Honestly the only reason i use annie to counter zed and all other assasins. Just out range and out poke annie its not hard i did it with karma yesterday and i dont even use karma.

Blazing Tenshi1 votes

Can we have a timer on Zed ult? If he doesn't use it within 10s of it being available it goes on a 50s cd.

Tavish1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Blazing Tenshi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8PPt0BRq,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2015-04-11T16:59:48.807+0000)

Can we have a timer on Zed ult? If he doesn't use it within 10s of it being available it goes on a 50s cd.

I'm not sure I understand this. I'm not saying Annie's ult should have a timer, I am saying her stun. Nor am I saying her stun should have a 50 second cooldown. Unless you are just going off on a Zed tangent.

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