If your team does well, it is entirely a waste because it only works under friendly towers.
If you are in such a position where you have to hug your tower a lot, you're most likely losing the game anyway.
Being a flat bonus makes it scale horribly.
All in all I'd never take it.
Ralanr2 votesIt's almost like Riot wants to encourage tanks to lose lane.
Chamuel853 votesWeren't so many melee top laners complaining that they're constantly pushed under tower and poked out there by ranged?
Oglaf2 votesWeren't so many melee top laners complaining that they're constantly pushed under tower and poked out there by ranged?
And you think this mastery helps, how exactly?
You'd probably be better off picking Tough Skin in that situation because the flat damage reduction from that would probably do more to help against ranged harass than a measly 8 armour with the caveat that you have to hug your tower.
Heck, even the +15 Movement Speed offered by Explorer would probably help more if you use the bushes to advance on the ranged Champ who's harassing you.
Flaherty2 votes2 less damage from autos is better than 8 armor and mr?
Oglaf2 votes2 less damage from autos is better than 8 armor and mr?
Yes, when you consider that it is constant, heck yeah it is. You seriously overestimate the % reduction you'd get from a measly 8 armour. Plus, I don't exactly know how Tough Skin works but I suspect it is unaffected by Armour Pen so you'll always get that 2 damage removed per attack - even if they go for Armour Pen. reds or quints.
EDIT: Oh and lets not forget that Tough Skin also affects lane minions, which is an underestimated factor in early lane trades. Winions can and will kill you if you catch aggro! Reducing a flat 2 damage per winion attack is gold.
Flaherty1 votesUsing generous numbers that 2 damage reduction is almost 3% reduced damage at best. That damage reduction goes lower the more AD the opponent has. Using rammus as an example since he has the highest base armor at level 1, which is 31, plus flat armor yellows which are pretty common, he has about 28.5% reduced damage from autos without anything more. Adding the 8 armor from the mastery gives him 32.4% which is about 2.9% more damage reduction. And this is using the highest base armor champion so any champion with less armor is getting more damage reduction from the 8 armor since armor is more effective the less amount of you have of it.
Oglaf1 votesUsing generous numbers that 2 damage reduction is almost 3% reduced damage at best. That damage reduction goes lower the more AD the opponent has. Using rammus as an example since he has the highest base armor at level 1, which is 31, plus flat armor yellows which are pretty common, he has about 28.5% reduced damage from autos without anything more. Adding the 8 armor from the mastery gives him 32.4% which is about 2.9% more damage reduction. And this is using the highest base armor champion so any champion with less armor is getting more damage reduction from the 8 armor since armor is more effective the less amount of you have of it.
As I said, it is also 2 less damage from every lane winion attack which helps out a lot in early trades.
Flaherty1 votesDoesn't armor also reduce minion damage? Regardless I'm not saying it's better in all cases since it's not, but to completely throw out the the value of siegemaster is just kind of ignorant.
Oglaf1 votesDoesn't armor also reduce minion damage? Regardless I'm not saying it's better in all cases since it's not, but to completely throw out the the value of siegemaster is just kind of ignorant.
Yeah, but why would you aggro minions under your tower? That is more of a in-lane trading thing.
VoidStaresBack1 votesIf you're trading with someone who's forcing you under tower while taking aggro from their minion wave you're doing it wrong, since they're probably either ranged (and thus can often dictate the terms of trades and escape from you if you try to force something) or a lane bully who could kick your teeth in anyway.
Both are situational, a bad lane matchup is a good time to take siegemaster since you'll spend most of your time under tower anyway, while tough skin is more generalist for better lanes.
Swiftstrike41 votes2 less damage from autos is better than 8 armor and mr?
I am pretty sure in the very early laning like level 1-3 the flat reduction is better and the next few minutes after that, the resistances are much better.
Chamuel851 votesI thought Tough Skins specifically states champion's and Monsters basic attacks. Plus it's just basic attacks. Armor and MR reduce damage from spells and abilities too. On a level 1 garen, 8 armor (assume he starts with 37 (28+9 from runes) goes from 27.5% physical reduction to about 31.0% which should probably block more than 2 damage per attack from armor.
Assuming a 70 damage AA from Quinn lets say, with tough skin he'll block about 21 damage (19.25 damage reduced from armor, additional 2 from Tough skin (calculated after damage reduction)). With siege master he'll block about ~22 (21.7). Seems like they're... too close in my opinion. Especially when you get MR as well.
Oglaf1 votes{quoted} With siege master he'll block about ~22 (21.7). Seems like they're... too close in my opinion. Especially when you get MR as well.
Ah but then take into account that Tough Skin works everywhere, including under your own tower.
Chamuel851 votesYeah, that's the thing... these two masteries (hadn't thought about it before) seem way too close together.
Ralanr2 votesWe don't want to be compensated for losing lane, we want a better chance to win lane.
This is like a pity gift of a parent that isn't listening.
Jbels2 votesWeren't so many melee top laners complaining that they're constantly pushed under tower and poked out there by ranged?
Be that as it may, this is a terrible solution to that. The objective of the game is to win, which means pushing into the enemy side of the map. This mastery is useless, since chances are if you're spending most of the game with it active, you're already losing
Chamuel851 votesI thought they wanted their tier 2 masteries to help laning phase. Not necessarily late game.
Flaherty1 votesJust because one lane is losing doesn't mean the whole game is lost. It gives people who made mistakes early and are behind a chance to not just get constantly blown up under tower so they can farm and catch up.
Swiftstrike41 votesI think it is a specific mastery for laners that scale well late, but do not do that well early. Or it is a mastery you take when facing a ranged champion top.
Hugging a tower does not necessarily mean you are losing in early laning. In general, the mastery is only practical for champions probably in the first 10-18ish minutes of the game, during laning.
I love the mastery for 
since it is almost perfect for him. Another top laner it probably benefits is 
.
I think the mastery is also largely a response to ranged champions that poke a melee champion under tower.
It is a perfect mastery for Nasus, but I will admit that its practicality is very low after laning. But riot intended for the lower tier masteries to lose their benefit as the game goes.
It is probably also really good for ADCs that have a poor laning phase and mid laners that do as well or have bad clear.
Mokkun1 votesPersonally I wonder if it's actually to help with 2v1's in competitive. (Which are, granted, rarer than they were)
Because you're right. In the situations it's useful in, you're likely to have a problem.
I suppose it's also there for the kind of champions that need to sandbag. Your weak early game hypercarries who get pushed in during lane phase.
FourVsFive1 votesall though u probably be vs a olaf,fiora, darius, or some other true dmg champ where +armor and magic res is useless.
Swiftstrike41 votesIt is also practical against 
Oglaf1 votesImagine if they changed it to....
8 MR/Armour as long as you're in a lane!
[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]
VoidStaresBack1 votesThat's a terrible idea because it actually renders tough skin obsolete outside of the jungle. Siegemaster is meant to be a more powerful situational mastery while tough skin is more general and works in all situations.
JQKAndrei1 votesI kinda like that mastery on 
.
Basically any champion that's really weak lvl 1-3 or pre-6 or maybe even if you pick any champion and are in an unfavourable matchup.
Example, as 
vs 
. I would take Siegemaster 100%
Yes, this mastery is useless mid-lategame or if you're winning lane. It's just sort of an insurance for the early game, and everything that can help you NOT fuck up early against a matchup that you may win later but if you die it starts snowballing is more than welcome.
Maybe, (maybe) it could be a good mastery on Adc or Support when you're against something like 
Also
If you are in such a position where you have to hug your tower a lot, you're most likely losing the game anyway.
This statement is wrong in so many ways, if you're in that spot as 
and the enemy is trying so hard to kill you but he can't:
RisenDarkKnight1 votesIt's good in ARAM (if you're a melee champ and the enemy team has more pushing power/poke).
JayHog19921 votesTwo reasons why it helps:
1- If you're a early game weak champion, such as Akali who needs 6 to get her power spike.
2- You're playing Aram, and you're gonna sit under your tower for ages (Happens alot).
Wingstonlee1 votesYeah, I think it is pretty useless. Maybe if you get the bonus at every tower kind of like the Point Runner passive it could be more useful.
Maxxam2321 votesI feel like it would be so much better the the armor and mr scaled with level, and the armor and mr was gained from enemy turrets as well.