What is Swain supposed to do?

Håppy··6 votes·821 views

Like, this is a general question. I'm writing this from under t2 tower waiting for my opponent to take the t1 because I can't waveclear, I can't sustain, I can't harass or trade effectively. What is this champion meant to do? Who designed this garbage?

Also, why is his ult both gated power-wise behind Soul Shards or whatever, AND a 2-minute cooldown? Who thought that up? Who decided to put a factually weaker ultimate compared to the previous one, behind TWO gates instead of just one??

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

18 Comments

BobaFlautist5 votes

He's supposed to be Vlad with weaker damage/healing but pick potential.

Unfortunately, they dialed back his raw combat strength way too much.

Håppy2 votes

They made one of his abilities intentionally do half damage to minions/monsters. They made his waveclear spell BLOCKED BY FIRST TARGET HIT, unless the target dies. They made pretty much his entire kit get cucked by minions and then their default role for him (the only lane he shows up in is Top by default, for release patch) the one role that requires constant trading and poking. What an absolute fucking joke, dude. He's worthless unless ahead and he has no opportunity to get ahead.

Old Swain was SOO boring. Decent laning phase, harass, and teamfight? HAH. Yaaaawn! I sure do love playing a champion that offers absolutely nothing to the lane, to the team, to the game! Woooo!

Escheton2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Happy Lolis,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8Jf5XUqv,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-02-12T18:04:02.023+0000)

They made one of his abilities intentionally do half damage to minions/monsters. They made his waveclear spell BLOCKED BY FIRST TARGET HIT, unless the target dies. They made pretty much his entire kit get cucked by minions and then their default role for him (the only lane he shows up in is Top by default, for release patch) the one role that requires constant trading and poking. What an absolute fucking joke, dude. He's worthless unless ahead and he has no opportunity to get ahead.

Old Swain was SOO boring. Decent laning phase, harass, and teamfight? HAH. Yaaaawn! I sure do love playing a champion that offers absolutely nothing to the lane, to the team, to the game! Woooo!

He's a toplaner that excels at waveclearing under tower. Pulling his opponent under tower, and granting gank assist. He is not a midlaner that benefits from pushing the wave out. So his 3 second Q is actually enough to waveclear. Especially once you get some AP.

VICKLIUS2 votes

swain didn't need rework, he just needed an update adjustment, such has having his pass gain him mana or hp based on which is lower based on dmg dealt, q add blind and silence(animation Beatrice pecking interact w/ e for 2x dmg lose silence blind Beatrice animation beam), e aoe "WHILE marked dmg to swain is reduced by 20%, and if target DIES furture dmg is increased by 5%,& if target kills swain their future dmg to swain is reduced by 5%"increase range so can lead w/ it w when snare enemy champ gain ms, 10sec cd all ranks R when hit send out another raven at attacker(increase mana cost/for current mana cost) to counter that he can only send one every other second

I came up w/ the pass to help deal w/ the mass healers an he was dot so kills didn't make sense an only mana, q I hate abilities that get adjusted dmg based on target type like(or less from repeated hit) X2 just cause minion,so added e interact for the x2 dmg an to make it aoe also for his pass added the blind and silence to deal w/ jumpers getting in(guess could do w/out cause e(but these are ideas that riot could've tried)), w gain ms so he could either go in or leave, an such long cd for reason idk(honestly hate cd go down, just make constant, more fun, more consistent playing) e an help vs assassins an to go w/ pass , the stacking just an added reward effect for playing well/smart , r I already explained

I Main Swain2 votes

tbh ive been doing great with him and havent had any of the problems youve described

DeathBurst2 votes

Git Gud?

But seriously, memes aside. Swain is supposed to poke his opponents through last-hit minions to get cheap/free poke that doesn't cost mana and win through attrition, especially in Top Lane, and turn around ganks against him with his R thanks to the healing it provides which is boosted against champions, so a gank means much more healing from your R. If you don't manage to waveclear with Q, you're doing it wrong. Watch a few streams and check how they position themselves and in what order / at what time they use their spells to clear the wave.

Vapor Wave Vibes1 votes

But it looks cool

Håppy2 votes

Yeah it sure looks cool, losing lane, losing fights, losing game.

Fear the Kayn1 votes

His Ult needs to have no cast time, and give him a MS buff imo. It's so crap right now.

nm10101 votes

You can't wave clear? I find an e through the minion line + 2 q's wipes out even cannon waves. Similarly I find you can q the minion line and your opponent at the same time fairly easily, now against long range threats you aren't going to do much (I see you played against a Ziggs) but everyone has strengths and weaknesses. If you want to play Swain at his best, try picking into assassins + medium range mages for a better match up.

Håppy2 votes

I play Swain top. I was against the Yasuo. And yeah, Swain's clear got better.. later in to the game. Like, 20+ minutes in.

nm10101 votes

Oh certainly his wave clear early isn't as good as pre rework Swain, but I do find myself keeping up fine against anyone who doesn't insta push the wave. I've laned against Ahri, Orianna, and Taliyah between the PBE and live. All of whom I consider to have fairly good wave clear, yet I didn't have any real trouble keeping up with them.

Håppy2 votes

It also isn't as good late game. Snare+Bird and you could physically leave the lane and it'd clear itself.

nm10101 votes

I mean you kind of e q q to clear it late game, but anyway what I do is this

https://i.gyazo.com/c59314226e04f59a137331e49ad39244.png

Accidentally took manaflow, you'll want ultimate hat. You can change out the gathering storm for scorch if you want, but this (with ultimate hat) is pretty strong. After the item changes you'll have a few different options, but what I've played around with is

https://i.gyazo.com/aaed7329d2a11b83ec53d5879b1e2378.png

With a GLP Liandries combo, though tear RoA with aery might also end up really strong.

5050BS1 votes

Yasuos wave clear is stupid OP like all of that Devs champs.

BUT Swains Q needs help early levels. Late its fine IF you build AP (of course you need to build HP and Def to live so)

VICKLIUS1 votes

they made a new champ, plain and simple, and they did a crap job of it.

ModCaliCoastReplay1 votes

He is supposed to do exactly what he's doing: Be underpowered, and exist at a 47% winrate (43% in high ELO). That is so all the fighters who screamed "Cancer!" at playing against his old version can say "Good job on the rework!"

I'm sorry, but I'm a little bitter - I still don't understand why his old kit was "cancer", any more than any other hypercarry's kit was. Half the toplane still snowballs out of control (at least as far as lane phase goes) on a single kill, and several of them still can fight the entire enemy team if they get fed.

Håppy1 votes

[sg-soraka]

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