Swain ult on a 30 sec CD????????????????

jusho1·Jun 20, 2016·4 votes·1,511 views

its unconfirmed but riot is experimenting on making his ult a 30 sec cool down. i want to know what kind of good shit they are smoking at riot. this completely changes the champ. it would be the equivalent of putting fizz troll pole on a 45 second cd or yas dash on a 15 sec cd.

the identity of swain especially during he laning phase is your have to deal with his ult, you need to be smart and out play the birds but if this dumb ass change goes through all you need to do is get him to burn his ult wait for him to turn it off so he dont wreck his mana pool and dash in on him. this will set him to garbage can teir with urgot and yorick

26 Comments

AlutrosityJun 20, 20161 votes

Damn right. All riot had to do was not overbuff the shit out of him, and not fuck with the healing based on damage dealt mechanic, and none of this would have happened. But hey, you know how these dumbfucks think, they can't touch anything without ruining it.

Swain was my main before the rework, he is the reason I can shut down those incredibly irritating assassins, and he is also the reason I even have a chance of getting out of bronze. 30 second cooldown would ruin Swain as without his ultimate he CANNOT handle other champions burst, and he will become an immobile sitting duck with a q that is incredibly easy to walk out of, and a snare that takes forever to root people. His e doesn't mean shit because it's only there to increase his overall damage output.

Riot needs to bring back the healing based on damage dealt to his ult and increase the percentage while reducing the number of birds back to three because five is honestly not necessary, this way you can still build mr against him, which actually does work because the birds themselves don't do that much damage. It's only when he's able to use his e on a single target, and increase the damage, and by extension his ult damage that he is able to truly heal for a fuckton, or when he is in a teamfight.

That said, players need to learn how to pick against Swain. I've been saying this in so many threads: he loses to any mage with remotely sufficient range: Vel'Koz, Xerath, Syndra, Heimer, Azir, all of those champions counter Swain as he cannot get close enough with any of his spells to inflict damage let alone win a trade. Mortal Reminder also counters him and so does morellonomicon, and if players had brains then they would build those items.

BakedLotionJun 20, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Damn right. All riot had to do was not overbuff the shit out of him, and not fuck with the healing based on damage dealt mechanic, and none of this would have happened. But hey, you know how these dumbfucks think, they can't touch anything without ruining it.

Swain was my main before the rework, he is the reason I can shut down those incredibly irritating assassins, and he is also the reason I even have a chance of getting out of bronze. 30 second cooldown would ruin Swain as without his ultimate he CANNOT handle other champions burst, and he will become an immobile sitting duck with a q that is incredibly easy to walk out of, and a snare that takes forever to root people. His e doesn't mean shit because it's only there to increase his overall damage output.

Riot needs to bring back the healing based on damage dealt to his ult and increase the percentage while reducing the number of birds back to three because five is honestly not necessary, this way you can still build mr against him, which actually does work because the birds themselves don't do that much damage. It's only when he's able to use his e on a single target, and increase the damage, and by extension his ult damage that he is able to truly heal for a fuckton, or when he is in a teamfight.

That said, players need to learn how to pick against Swain. I've been saying this in so many threads: he loses to any mage with remotely sufficient range: Vel'Koz, Xerath, Syndra, Heimer, Azir, all of those champions counter Swain as he cannot get close enough with any of his spells to inflict damage let alone win a trade. Mortal Reminder also counters him and so does morellonomicon, and if players had brains then they would build those items.

I mean, even with a 30 second cooldown, swain will probably still stomp in bronze. He's still going to be overpowered. Trust me. You guys are just over-reacting.

AlutrosityJun 20, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I mean, even with a 30 second cooldown, swain will probably still stomp in bronze. He's still going to be overpowered. Trust me. You guys are just over-reacting.

We are definitely not overreacting. Swain is a deterrent to bullshit champions, he is literally the anti-bully, who punishes those toxic assassins who one-shot you, the same champions like Zed and Fizz who you CAN'T EVEN FUCKING ITEMIZE against because hurr durr, quicksilver sash too strong (riot's way of nerfing but not actually nerfing those two fuckboys), and that's what Swain needs to stay as.

BakedLotionJun 20, 20162 votes

{quoted}

We are definitely not overreacting. Swain is a deterrent to bullshit champions, he is literally the anti-bully, who punishes those toxic assassins who one-shot you, the same champions like Zed and Fizz who you CAN'T EVEN FUCKING ITEMIZE against because hurr durr, quicksilver sash too strong (riot's way of nerfing but not actually nerfing those two fuckboys), and that's what Swain needs to stay as.

No. He's a hypercarry unkillable mage that has bullshit damage. That's why he's getting nerfed.

AlutrosityJun 20, 20162 votes

{quoted}

No. He's a hypercarry unkillable mage that has bullshit damage. That's why he's getting nerfed.

Provide an example.

Hyper-carries have notoriously weak early game, which Swain actually does, since he's short ranged except for his w which is difficult to land and easy to avoid, and he has to last hit without any autoattack boosters like Zed's passive, or Fizz's w, though his new q has made it slightly more easy. If he doesn't get catalyst near or before six he is in deep shit as he doesn't have the mana stores to use his ult for very long, so you play around it.

Swain was able to do everything he was before this rework. I mained him, and still do, so I know how satisfying it feels to be able to give Zed, Fizz, Yasuo, and LeBlanc a taste of their own medicine by shoving it down their throats. They deserve to be violated the way they violate other champs with their insta-kill bullfuck.

Like I keep saying: quit bitching about Swain and use a ranged mage. They shit all over him because he can't get near them while they get free poke, but in league of legends people don't think about what they can do to win, instead they just whine, cry, and perma-ban until riot finally does something to put some lubricant and Swain's pecker.

BakedLotionJun 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Provide an example.

Hyper-carries have notoriously weak early game, which Swain actually does, since he's short ranged except for his w which is difficult to land and easy to avoid, and he has to last hit without any autoattack boosters like Zed's passive, or Fizz's w, though his new q has made it slightly more easy. If he doesn't get catalyst near or before six he is in deep shit as he doesn't have the mana stores to use his ult for very long, so you play around it.

Swain was able to do everything he was before this rework. I mained him, and still do, so I know how satisfying it feels to be able to give Zed, Fizz, Yasuo, and LeBlanc a taste of their own medicine by shoving it down their throats. They deserve to be violated the way they violate other champs with their insta-kill bullfuck.

Like I keep saying: quit bitching about Swain and use a ranged mage. They shit all over him because he can't get near them while they get free poke, but in league of legends people don't think about what they can do to win, instead they just whine, cry, and perma-ban until riot finally does something to put some lubricant and Swain's pecker.

I never said I can't win against swain in lane. Does it look like I main yasuo or zed? I main mages. I'm saying his late game is fucking insane and a 30 second cooldown on an ult that takes 0 skill to use is fair. You're extremely biased because you main him and telling everyone that they're getting wrecked by swain even though you don't know whether or not they really are.

His early game isn't weak. He wins every trade with Q and E. Easily. It's also point and click. He's unkillable if he's even or ahead, and outputs insane dps.

He's overpowered. End of story. There's no bullshit you can throw out that will change people's minds. Pretty sure everyone is doing replying to someone as biased and arrogant as you are.

AlutrosityJun 21, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I never said I can't win against swain in lane. Does it look like I main yasuo or zed? I main mages. I'm saying his late game is fucking insane and a 30 second cooldown on an ult that takes 0 skill to use is fair. You're extremely biased because you main him and telling everyone that they're getting wrecked by swain even though you don't know whether or not they really are.

You act like you can't win lane against Swain though. At rank one his q has a 20% slow. That is extremely easy to just walk out of and since it is DoT then you don't take as much damage unless you STUPIDLY STAND INSIDE IT, so don't give me that point and click easy win bullshit. Like I said already, if you use a ranged mage, he's probably not going to be able to get close enough to target you in the first place. Insane late game? Gee, isn't that EVERY fucking mage who manages to make it to late game, because last I checked Xerath, Lux, and Vel'Koz can still blow you right the fuck up from half-way across the map, and Veigar can still delete Swain's hp in one spell rotation and there is NOTHING Swain can do to stop that, save use zhonyas to save himself and be vulnerable after that.

Of course I have a bias in favor of Swain because I love playing the champion, but here's the thing: if I can beat my own supposedly overpowered, broken, unfair, unkillable main, then so can everybody else, because I have been forced to lane against him in the past. And of course I know they're getting wrecked by Swain because they're bitching and moaning and groaning and begging for a nerf non-fucking-stop. Why would people complain about a champ that gives them no problems winning against?

He's overpowered. End of story. There's no bullshit you can throw out that will change people's minds. Pretty sure everyone is doing replying to someone as biased and arrogant as you are.

You have yet to provide a decent counter-argument. All you've done is call me arrogant and say bullshit, without ever once addressing a single strategy I've shown people that they could use to beat Swain, so I'm afraid this story isn't going to end until you grow the fuck up and learn how to debate.

jusho1Jun 21, 20161 votes

um i lose early game a lot with swain. people have learned to counter pick me but thanks to my ult i dont feed. anyone time i get hard engaged i have a chance to live until i get to safety.

champs that counter early swain are champs that have a good range, champs that can vanish so his Q or birds will bounce to minions giving you 3 seconds on getting no damage and champs with some sort of self heal.

RevaliJun 21, 20163 votes

The one thing I would disagree with you on is morellonomicon

as it requires him to be below a certain health to trigger its effect

and with his buildpath, something like roa visage etc, stuff like that, a mage alone will have a hard time getting him below that hp, making it a meaningless buy.

Still, it's a good buy, but I don't think its a direct counter.

QuephaJun 20, 20161 votes

No, it's like putting Illaoi's 1v5 godmode ult on a 90 second cooldown because Swain's ult is a 1v5 godmode button.

Do you want his ult to be really strong? Then it needs to be gated somehow and a 10 second cooldown is not an appropriate gate for that kind of power.

AlutrosityJun 20, 20162 votes

{quoted}

No, it's like putting Illaoi's 1v5 godmode ult on a 90 second cooldown because Swain's ult is a 1v5 godmode button.

Do you want his ult to be really strong? Then it needs to be gated somehow and a 10 second cooldown is not an appropriate gate for that kind of power.

Lol, what an exaggeration and godawful comparison. Illaoi heals for far more than Swain because her healing is based on missing hp, and missing hp healing scales with how much hp is being built, and since Illaoi builds literally all health items with the exception of boots, this causes her healing to be infinitely greater than that of Swain's. Hell, I have ulted a Swain as Trundle and killed him through his ult, because Trundle's w gives him increased healing, and Swain typically builds an abyssal scepter due to his close ranged fighting, and sometimes a spirit visage if he's against magic damage to increase his own healing. This causes Trundle to receive extra magic resist from Swain ontop of the magic resist Trundle has already built: couple this with red smite for true damage, and Swain just lost a 1v1 to a superior healer.

It's also important to note that Swain's unkillability isn't just from his healing, it's the fact that he builds a lot of hp to begin with: it's not uncommon to see Swain build RoA, Liandry's, and Rylai's all in the same game. However, if a Swain were to just build a seraphs embrace to satisfy his mana needs, then do something dumb as say build a morellonomicon, followed by rabadons, abyssal, boots, and liandry's, he would be a sitting duck because he would have shit for hp.

Seriously, don't ever do something as asinine as to compare Swain's healing to Illaoi's or a tanks ever again. It's a lot of healing, but it's not nearly as bad as some of the other shit I've seen, and a mortal reminder from the adc, or shit even the fucking assassin if they are a mid laner is enough to cut his healing down to manageable levels.

His ult doesn't need to be gated, it needs to be itemized against, and met with tanky bruisers, not dumbass assassins who want to go top lane, build tank, and do insufficient damage that would normally give them a chance at killing him.

So sick of these gross misunderstandings about Swain. Misunderstandings that are going to lead to dumbass nerfs which will hurt his playability.

QuephaJun 20, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Lol, what an exaggeration

He's been pick or ban in pro games for weeks, you can't deny that he's totally overpowered right now.

30 seconds is still incredibly low for an ult, the mana cost system still allows for Swain to maintain his ult for an incredibly long period of time, and he'll still have the completely broken sustained AoE damage and healing during it.

AlutrosityJun 20, 20162 votes

{quoted}

He's been pick or ban in pro games for weeks, you can't deny that he's totally overpowered right now.

30 seconds is still incredibly low for an ult, the mana cost system still allows for Swain to maintain his ult for an incredibly long period of time, and he'll still have the completely broken sustained AoE damage and healing during it.

Fuck pro players. The last time I saw them do something intelligent to try and provide a legitimate counter, or think outside the box, and not follow the meta like every other brainless follower was never. Come back when you have an actual argument to present and not just go around saying people are terrified of him because overpowered.

QuephaJun 20, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Come back when you have an actual argument to present and not just go around saying people are terrified of him because overpowered.

I refuse to give up an objectively correct argument.

Swain is OP. If a champ is OP, they need to be nerfed. Get over it.

AlutrosityJun 20, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I refuse to give up an objectively correct argument.

Swain is OP. If a champ is OP, they need to be nerfed. Get over it.

And I refuse to acknowledge bullshit disguised as logic. Whine. Cry. Get beat down by Swain.

jusho1Jun 21, 20161 votes

um why are you fighting him in a group? thats where his strength lies. he sucks in a 1v1 situation. right now the tank meta is why he is strong. you hide behind your tanks and group up. this gives him 5 targets to heal from and spread his damage. if and when the meta changes to some sort of split pushing where he will have to 1v1 or 2v1 he will get wrecked. its not his fault his kit fits the current meta.

if you feel he is to strong dont nerf him to the point of breaking him ask to have his changes be reversed to where he was pre mage update

QuephaJun 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

if you feel he is to strong dont nerf him to the point of breaking him ask to have his changes be reversed to where he was pre mage update

This nerf isn't as powerful as you think. He'll still be pretty viable with an actual cooldown on his ult because his ult is strong enough for him to only need one cycle of it per fight.

jusho1Jun 21, 20161 votes

team fight maybe it will be near useless in laning phase. right now the only way for him to fight any champ with a dash is to ult up and survive the initial burst. with such a high cool down all one needs to do it bait out the ult and then go ham once he turns it off.

hell with a 10 sec cd thats all you need to do now and those who cant figure that out are the ones wanted him nerfed

QuephaJun 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

those who cant figure that out are the ones wanted him nerfed

You mean every pro team who bans him constantly? None of them can figure it out?

How does Zed bait out the ult? His blink is on a longer cooldown. How does Talon bait out the ult? His blink is on a longer cooldown. How does Leblanc bait out the ult? Her dash is on the same cooldown.

jusho1Jun 21, 20161 votes

ba hahaha you just named 3 assassin champs. dont play assassins into a swain. play AurelionSol Ziggs Velkoz Syndra

the list can go on. if you play an assassin into swain you deserve to lose. assassin dont get to win every damn match up

QuephaJun 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

ba hahaha you just named 3 assassin champs. dont play assassins into a swain. play

the list can go on. if you play an assassin into swain you deserve to lose. assassin dont get to win every damn match up

Swain's ult isn't relevant to any of those champions. 10 seconds or 30 seconds, it doesn't matter because Swain shouldn't plan to deal any damage to them with his ult unless he hits his snare, which is really not at all like "baiting it out"

jusho1Jun 21, 20161 votes

exactly its called counter picking.

he is even weak to Trundle Sion and a smart Nasus

they have a great self heal or damage absorb making it hard for swain to do damage early since his 1st item is item 3010 and it offers no damage stats

counter pick isnt hard dont nerf a champ because u cant do it

QuephaJun 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

exactly its called counter picking.

he is even weak to and a smart

they have a great self heal or damage absorb making it hard for swain to do damage early since his 1st item is and it offers no damage stats

counter pick isnt hard dont nerf a champ because u cant do it

Swain absolutely destroys pure melee champions in top lane. His winrate goes up dramatically against Trundle and Nasus.

You don't know what you're talking about.

jusho1Jun 21, 20161 votes

playing almost exclusively swain for 3 years over 200 games this season. i know what champs he has issues with and why. yes he is strong vs "MOST" melee champs but not those who can self heal nasus passive sions bubble trundles heal are all a pain in the ass for early game swain. if you fight a smart naus that uses his passive correctly you will never get him below 50% during the laning phase.

dont believe me 1v1 me you get swain ill get naus

jusho1Jun 21, 20161 votes

if you feel he is to strong dont nerf him to the point of breaking him ask to have his changes be reversed to where he was pre mage update

Kr1sysJun 21, 20161 votes

The reason they're nerfing him is because it's not as impressive to watch a swain do his abilities and beat something #lcsbigplays as a Zed free poking and diving under a turret. He's not as fun for viewers to watch when he counters bullshit engage/disengage champs like Zed, Fizz, Ekko, etc.

It's that simple.