Tryndamere probably shouldn't exist.

InsaneSamurai·Sep 27, 2014·3 votes·1,406 views

He has a completely broken skill set, and he promotes ignoring your team and acting like a lunatic, doing things that will just get your team killed for even attempting to help. Most Tryndamere players ignore their team entirely and split push the entire game, and the sad part is it still works pretty often because it takes 3 or 4 people to actually kill a guy who built no defense whatsoever. I used to think 'well you just CC him' but I just saw him use his ult repeatedly while being ulted by Malzahar, so even that is not an option. How is this even remotely good for the game?

21 Comments

BornTooWinSep 27, 20145 votes

But you have that Tryn icon :o

InsaneSamuraiSep 27, 20142 votes

Well it looks the most like a samurai, what can I say :)

MugyvrNinjaSep 27, 20144 votes

I think tryndamere ads a special uniqueness to the game's on the rift when some one decides to play him.

InsaneSamuraiSep 27, 20141 votes

That uniqueness is more or less "if I win my lane or get fed enough, we win the game" and that doesn't belong in a 5v5 team game. No one champion should be able to do the things that Tryndamere's do all the time, and I really don't see how it's even remotely acceptable.

WorgslargSep 27, 20144 votes

There is nothing wrong with splitpushing.

It's just not advisable when the rest of your team is a teamfight comp.

InsaneSamuraiSep 27, 20141 votes

Nah there isn't, but there is something wrong with doing it 100% of the game, which many tryns do.

BBP87Sep 27, 20143 votes

I cried about this too awhile back. I hate trynd, I wish he didn't exist, but you can beat him. Like you said usually he will split push, this is when you take other objectives around the map like drag and towers. Having a couple of teleports on the team also helps out a lot too. Also you def wanna try to counter him in lane, and gank him pre 6. I also wish Leo didn't exist but it is just the way it is.

InsaneSamuraiSep 27, 20141 votes

The too powerful end of the problem is when they are smart enough to know when to teamfight. He can just charge into your team and guaranteed kill one or two champs while the rest of his team runs wild on everyone else. It still takes 3 or 4 people to kill him, but the rest of his team is there so it's just over thanks to a totally unbalanced kit.

Also, you can only ignore him for so long before he's at an inhib, and when you break off to stop him, he just runs away. Generally spinning over walls and ulting if he almost gets caught, wasting everyone's time while the rest of his team freely does something else.

Knight SoIaire Sep 27, 20143 votes

He has a completely broken skill set

he is old, look at current sion

Most Tryndamere players ignore their team entirely and split push the entire game

because this way they help their team moor than they would with crashing at enemy team popping their ult and either runnning or dying without doing anything

missinggraveSep 27, 20143 votes

(( Plus current Sion kinda destroys Tryndamere from what I've seen/experienced. The stun and extra AD ruins his laning - especially with infinite scaling health - and if he plays AP very few things can actually get past his shield. Sion also gives out heals in team fights by dealing damage to anything near a teammate and can split push if required. He's a lot more versatile that Tryndamere in my honest opinion. ))

I Main SwainSep 27, 20142 votes

lol, hence the sion rework. both ap sion and ad sion (having played both several times) are pretty hard to deal with by all but mega tank teams or teams with insane burst and cc.

I Main SwainSep 27, 20143 votes

lemme guess, someone is butthurt because they lost lane to tryndamere? as a guy who mained tryndamere for almost his whole league experience, I can attest that he is in fact not broken. hes INCREDIBLY vulnerable to cc, extremely squishy, vulnerable against armor building champs, poke champs, cc champs, gap closer champs, burst champs. yes, he can ult through cc, but if hes cc'd enough he will still die anyways, especially if you have a strong DoT on him like malz e or ignite hes screwed after his ult goes down.

no, his skill set does not promote ignoring your team and being a retard, bronze tryndameres just like doing that because they misread his ult and think it says "Passive: tryndamere is permanently invincible". If you have the right champs, you can kill him with only 1 or 2 champs. if he gets behind he basically feeds from there on out. if you exhaust him, not only is he really cc'd but he has no dmg. if he dives multiple people, just force him to either chase his target around or switch targets constantly. just because he can ult through cc doesn't mean you shouldn't cc him at all, that's stupid logic. that's like saying, "oh look, malzahars ult doesn't 100 to 0 this 20 4 yi, better ignore him!"

before you rage about how op a champ is, play them a bunch and actually get to know their kit before raging. lets go over his abilities. _

Passive: tryndamere receives .35 crit chance per rage point, maxing at 100 points. auto attacks give you 5 points while crits give you 10.

its really good when he gets his full rage bar, crazy good in fact, but its clearly 100% useless if you keep him from getting those rage points. tryndamere, if you start with q like most people do, is zonable early levels like no other, and cant really do anything to you unless youre stupid enough to try to flat out fight him when you are on equal terms. his passive is also consumed entirely when he activates his q, so no more crit chance for him in exchange for healing. _

Q - tryndamere passively gains 5 / 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 + 0.15 / 0.2 / 0.25 / 0.3 / 0.35 per 1% of missing health (so maxed at 40 bonus ad rank 1 and 60 at rank 5). tryndamere can activate his q to consume his rage bar and heal himself for 30 / 40 / 50 / 60 / 70 (+ 30% AP) + 0.5 / 0.95 / 1.4 / 1.85 / 2.3 (+ 1.2% AP) per Fury, up to a max of 80 / 135 / 190 / 245 / 300 (+ 150% AP).

his heal is a very strong ability, and I really like it. it has incredible heal that can save your butt from a gank, turn a fight around, or tank that last turret shot incoming. however, if tryndamere is zoned (and if he starts q any good player will zone him) his q heals for a pathetic amount. it makes me cry when im the one being zoned and cant heal for crap. his q also encourages him to not use his heal until he really needs it simply because he gets bonus ad and crit chance from the passives. if you are trying to kill him or just reduce his healing, ignite or any other grevious wounds inflictor makes his heal do nothing, even at full rage. also, its 12 second cooldown at all ranks makes him vulnerable after he uses it, both in damage and in defensive capabilities. _

W - tryndamere decreases surrounding enemy champions' attack damage. Enemies with their backs turned to Tryndamere also have their movement speed slowed for 4 seconds. (Attack Damage Reduction: 20 / 35 / 50 / 65 / 80) (Slow: 30 / 37.5 / 45 / 52.5 / 60%)

this ability is pretty godly for tryndamere when it comes to chasing down people or fighting. it increases his odds of getting a kill exponentially. however, he cannot use it as an escape unless you can pull some pretty pro moves and get them to face away from you somehow. 14 sec cd at all ranks once again makes him vulnerable to counter attacks after its been used.

E - Tryndamere whirls his sword and dashes to a target location, dealing physical damage to enemies in his path and granting 2 FURY per enemy hit. If he kills a unit, he additionally gains 10 more FURY. The cooldown is reduced by 1 seconds whenever Tryndamere critically strikes (doubled vs champs)

I Main SwainSep 27, 20143 votes

sry, wouldn't let me type anymore, anyways time to continue.

his e is very good in all ways imo. defensively, waveclear, chasing, fighting. it deals a lot of damage and can crit on top of that, and if he can kite you with his auto's for long enough he can use it again because of the cdr passive. I would say this ability is broken were it not his only offensive damaging ability. another thing ive found is that the range, while being fairly long, is easy to misjudge and often times makes people fail to go over terrain with it, thusly wasting precious movement and time.

R - After a 0.5 second delay, Tryndamere instantly receives FURY and becomes immune to death for 5 seconds during which his health cannot fall below 1. This move is usable even when under the effects of hard crowd control. If Tryndamere is below 3% health when Undying Rage ends, it will heal him to 3%. (didn't know that last part actually) Fury Gained: 50 / 75 / 100

this is where most people have their problem with tryndamere, and it really is an incredibly strong ability defensively speaking. he can ult through cc, gains bonus fury which he can use for the damage or to heal, he cant die for 5 seconds. however, it does have key VERY big weaknesses. first of all, tryndamere is very squishy, so most tryndamere players are jumpy when it comes to taking burst. if you flash a little burst on him, many tryndameres will flat out ult and either run away or yolo dive (probably unsuccessfully). in combination with this, tryndameres ult takes .5 seconds to activate (which I frustratingly didn't know until the end of season 3). if you burst him down quickly, but actually going for the kill this time, theres a decent chance you will get him before he can ult. if not, then he burned his ult and hes vulnerable. "oh, but in 5 seconds with his crazy damage he can 1v5 a team". not if you don't deserve a rank below bronze 5. first off, if you have a viable team you will have some decent cc. second off, this cc should be more than enough to keep him off a carry (who should be kiting him btw) for 5 seconds. exhaust especially is strong against him, because it provides the slow and frikin halves his damage. ignite too kinda wrecks him when he ults because when it comes down, assuming you were smart and used it as late as possible, he will probably die.

tl;dr: yes, tryndamere is an extremely strong champion, but he also has extremely heavy weaknesses. he is a purely offensive champion, and he has less capability than almost any other top laner to play defensively. if you think hes op, im sorry but you will just need to learn to play better and learn how to deal with a zonable, cc vulnerable hypercarry. (hint hint)

InsaneSamuraiSep 27, 20141 votes

No, I didn't lane against him, rarely do, and you should really assume less, you know how that saying goes :P I just watch them come out of the lane or jungle 20-30 minutes into the game and start destroying everything in their path with no real chance of stopping him without bringing half or more of the team. Or I spend 20 minutes begging our tryn to teamfight with us and he just refuses and keeps split pushing, saying "you all obviously don't know how to play tryn, i'm split pushing and thats that", while we lose lanes to 5 man pushes.

The champions only counterplay is in lane or in champ select, and you can only control one of those if you're laning against him and if you have a proper champ to screw up his laning phase. Not every team has 5 seconds worth of lockdown(especially in solo/duo que), so once he gets going he's just unstoppable because of the huge auto-slow and very low cd/extremely high dmg gap closer. That doesn't really sound like the kind of champ that is supposed to be in a game that is trying to promote teamwork and coordination. Sure exhaust and Ignite are nice, but late game they wont shut him down(not to mention top laners and junglers rarely have exhaust), they just might stop him from killing 3 people instead of 2.

Also I just wanted to point out this sentence, it really helps to show my point: "unless youre stupid enough to try to flat out fight him when you are on equal terms"

I Main SwainSep 27, 20142 votes

no real chance of stopping him

I know for a fact this is never the case unless their entire comp is retarded strong or yours is retarded bad, or someone fed him 40 kills. he has plenty of chances of stopping him. on top of that, 20-30 minutes is middle of mid game, where he starts to excel in high damage, so naturally he will appear very strong. also, tryndamere himself doesn't promote stupidity in terms of refusing to group, those people would be stupid like that anyways. yes, he is a strong split pusher, but just I don't think riot is going to remove all split pushing capabilities from the game because some stupid players take it to the extreme.

btw, youre really telling a tryndamere main, as a non-tryndamere player, that his only counterplay is in champ select and having the perfect champion in lane and in lane only? it doesn't work like that, you have to actually know things about a champion aside from that you saw some people playing as them do really well and that some people are stupid with him before you can deem them op or having a bad kit.

Not every team has 5 seconds worth of lockdown(especially in solo/duo que), so once he gets going he's just unstoppable because of the huge auto-slow and very low cd/extremely high dmg gap closer.

youre right, not every team has 5 seconds worth of cc of any kind (except maybe silence), only every viable team. you don't need to have stuns and suppresses, even just a bunch of slows will work beautifully. also, huge auto-slow? did you read his abilities that I posted at all? you HAVE to be turned away from him to be slowed and the slow is about as much as almost every other champ slow in the game. another thing about not reading abilities, how did you get that he has extremely low cd? his q has a 12 sec cd at all ranks. his w a 14. his e starts out long but gets shorter, and it does actually have the cdr passive, but once again that's part of his offensive nature. notice his defensive abilities are A) reliant on him being heavily offensive and B) have very long cooldowns at all ranks (aside from his ult, which is about an avg cooldown length contrary to popular belief).

note that this "extremely high damage gap closer" is his only damaging ability.

also note that tryndamere is listed as a fighter primarily and an assassin secondarily. so naturally, he would be very good at fighting and have good burst. and actually, tryndamere as a champion does promote teamwork and coordination a lot, he only doesn't if youre one of those few stupid players you were talking about who just "f u im afk farming top all game, idc if theyre at our nexus im about to get first tower". once tryndamere groups, he needs his team to coordinate with him. I cannot tell you how many times as tryndamere you get those derpy teams that just throw their advantages and leave you to fight their team solo, when you could have gotten an ace had they fought. tryndamere in teamfights promotes tryndamere players, unless they are very derpy, to coordinate very much with their allies. a good tryndamere strategizes who initiates, when he goes in, the order of ults, summoner spells, when he goes out and what to do in x situation. tell me that theres no teamworking there, in his great strategizing of how to properly slaughter them as a team. tell me with a straight face.

Sure exhaust and Ignite are nice, but late game they wont shut him down(not to mention top laners and junglers rarely have exhaust), they just might stop him from killing 3 people instead of 2.

exhaust and ignite will shut him down late game more than any other point...exhaust reduces damage dealt by 50% (or something like that, didn't check the stats) as well as slowing a lot. are you saying that taking 400 damage off of his autos and making him extremely kitable isn't strong late game? also, tryndamere, due to his powerful crits, can heal for a lot with his auto's, not just his q. both exhaust and ignite will weaken that a lot, and you can kill him at the end of his ult with ignite pretty easily.

I Main SwainSep 27, 20142 votes

wow, I never make comments this long. anyways:

as for what you said about top laners and junglers rarely having exhaust, its actually more common than you think, and I run exhaust on both all the time. on top of that, if you are in draft or ranked and you see tryndamere you can switch a summoner spell to that. also, to respond to what you said about killing people, no, not just 2 people instead of 3, 0 people or maaaybe 1 or 2 if hes a god or you just had bad positioning, instead of 3 or 4 because you didn't see a point in cc-ing him.

Also I just wanted to point out this sentence, it really helps to show my point: "unless youre stupid enough to try to flat out fight him when you are on equal terms"

remember what I said earlier, about him being primarily fighter secondarily assassin? same thing applies here. unless you are either extremely tanky like shen or malph, or you have lots of cc, sustain, or a good defensive ability like xin and jax, you are going to lose trades. also, I meant to add to that "at least if he has some fury. otherwise, depending on your champ, he could very well lose the trade." tryndamere excels at brief confrontations and long fights.

InsaneSamuraiSep 28, 20141 votes

You're exaggerating, and contradicting yourself a bit there("tryndamere excels at brief confrontations and long fights." that's kinda everything), I'm assuming because he's your main. I'm sorry that your main has a toxic skillset, but it needs to go. He needs far less than 40 kills to start taking over a game in the hands of a remotely competent player, and in a skilled player's hands it's even worse. If you tried to argue less and actually read what I'm saying, you'd realize that part of my issue is the derpy tryndamere players accomplish drastically more than they ever should due to this problematic skillset.

Yes most viable teams should have that much CC overall between slows and such, but you think it's fair that the only way to deal with tryn is to have everyone on the team stop what they are doing and all focus and chain CC him? What about the rest of the team who gets to basically run free during that fight? The tryn forces an entire team to ignore everyone else and put every CC skill they have on CD, just to have a shot at killing him, and that's balanced?

I only said the gap closer was extremely low cd, and his ult has a lower cd than it should considering it's one of the best in the game. Sure, the W is not technically an auto-slow, but if you're a squishy and you start running toward a tryn, it's probably already over, and if you're running away, the 4 second slow and extremely low cd gap closer will cover it. The guy can build an entirely offensive item set and fly around a teamfight, completely throwing caution and normal league logic to the wind, because he can become completely invincible for 5 seconds at a time. Primary fighter you say, well fighters should have to build defensive items to dive multiple players, kill one(or more), and get out scot free. He's a melee champion who has no trouble chasing people down, but his kit gives him almost no reason to build any armor, health, or mr beyond a GA most of the time. That is not how this game is supposed to work.

Don't be like that about ignite. You're a tryndamere main, so you know as well as I do the majority of the time you are running away with your ult and someone ignites you, you laugh at him, pop your heal, and go about your business. On paper it sounds like it would kill him pretty often, but you know tryn rarely has low enough rage (considering you did just engage) for that to actually happen most of the time. Finally, about the focus, again, yes there are many situations where if every single person focuses tryndamere for 7 seconds, he will eat enough cc to actually get stuck and die after the ult wears off, but like I said, what about the other 4 people on his team? They just got 7 seconds free reign to murder the enemy team while they all have to focus tryn or let him wipe all the squishies on your team.

I Main SwainSep 29, 20142 votes

trust me man, I looked into tryndamere for months before playing him and ive mained him for over a year, you aren't going to win this argument. I promise you, tryndamere is just fine as he is. I seriously suggest you play tryn for a while and you will understand what I mean, and that im right about at least almost all of what I said (some of it also depends on the player). and no, im not just saying hes fine because I don't want anything done to him, he really is in a good place right now with defined strengths and weaknesses, you just have to know how to exploit those. anyways, ill try to answer your questions and stuff now. (starting with the end because I can).

about that ignite thing you said in the last paragraph, ignite actually will kill tryndamere most of the time when he ults unless you use it waaaaay too early. the healing reduction makes his heal do absolutely nothing, even with full rage, and you usually die anyways. it happens to me all the time. also, tryndamere, upon engaging, wont necessarily have high rage. he gains his rage bar fairly slowly (not super slow, but a little), and like I said even a full rage heal doesn't cut a properly timed ignite. about what you said about focus, you've already lost if you focus him. what you do is you bait his ult out, cc him, and ignore him until his ult is about up. sure, tryn will have died if you focus him, but do anything but cc the guy who's invincible for the next 5 seconds?

his ult cooldown, imo, is fine as is. I would think otherewise if A) it wasn't so easy to bait out and B) if it didn't take a full half second to activate. his e cooldown isn't extremely short, its just extremely short when hes getting crits off. otherwise, its not coming up again for another 9 seconds, and his w isn't coming up for another 14 regardless. also, yes tryndamere builds purely offensive, but he cant throw caution to the wind unless your team has 0 cc or mobility, and correction (key correction at that) his ult doesn't make him completely invincible. he just cant drop below 1 hp for 5 seconds. you look at him too hard after that and he dies. and, he often cant just fly around a teamfight either. first off, one thing the really pro timing people will do is interrupt tryndameres e, and his w is easily counterplayed against by simply kiting him with auto's if youre ranged (decreases chance of getting hit with the slow), and using a little cc or mobility. at this point, tryndamere having likely had to ult .75 seconds after diving, his ult has about 1 second left. now if he was lucky he may have gotten a kill or 2 if his team followed up well, but he will honestly probably consider himself lucky to get even 1 against a good team. tryndamere doesn't dive multiple players, kill 1 or more, and get out scot free. he will likely die doing that unless the champs are squishy with no cc or mobility and hes incredibly fed. yes he hasn't much trouble chasing people down, hence his being an incredibly offensive champion. his kit is built to be fantastic offensively, and crappy defensively. a behind tryndamere often stays that way unless you let the game go to him catching up simply by farm or passive gold gain.

weren't you complaining about me exaggerating? now youre claiming that in order to cc tryndamere everybody has to stop what theyre doing and focus him while ignoring the rest of his team who will clearly be with him immediately 1--5 of the time. once again, if you follow that logic you've lost the game already. he doesn't force the entire team to use every spec of cc, again if you do that you deserve to lose the game and he deserves to win for baiting it all out of you. a thresh alone with his q and e has enough cc to peel tryn off him entire team, including himself, at least for the duration of the ult which is all he needs.

no I wasn't exaggerating and no I didn't contradict myself. you say brief confrontations and drawn out fights are kinda everything. first off, when I say drawn out fights, I mean anything that doesn't go past the duration of his ult

I Main SwainSep 29, 20143 votes

my gosh I really need to make these shorter. anyways, continued:

...which is typically a long fight, assuming he's against another fighter or a tank. he really doesn't have a toxic skillset, and he is a very high skill cap champ (though to be able to play him and not do bad doesn't take much skill, he still needs more skill to do well with him). many of those derpy players that you are talking about were either against teams that didn't know how to deal with tryn, or they were just pretending to be derpy, or you are confusing derpy with toxic or "solo players" who refuse to do anything with the team. tryndamere is in a good place right now, riot isn't going to change him, you just need to learn how to deal with him better.

IAmNeverViableSep 27, 20142 votes

I don't find tryndamere broken but i hate him. Reason I hate him because his kit does not offer any utility or cc to teamfights. His kit promotes split pushing than teamfights. I don't hate all of tryndamere's kit because i believe that some of his kit are good tools. His e, his escape and engage tool, nothing wrong with it. His passive, amply his power when full fury and offer counterplay when he has no fury, His ult is his signature move, it allow him to survive longer to output more damage and can be counter by kiting and cc. What i don't like about his kit is his q and w. His q promote selfish heals in lane and not in teamfight. His w which i hate the most is a very situation skill. His w only reduce ad and slows enemy who's back is turn against him. His w wants to create a split push situation to effectively use it. I think his w can be improve to offer more utility rather than cc. Currently his kit does not offer anything for teamfights.

I Main SwainSep 27, 20141 votes

ooooh yes it does provide utility. his w slows by 60% late game and reduces their ad by 80, thusly raping their ad champs and immobile champs. also, what do you mean his q promotes "selfish heals"? please explain. and just for the record, I use his w in almost every situation. intimidation, make them miss cs, fighting, kiting, defense with that ad reduction, etc. (and btw, cc is utility, and his kit certainly does offer things to teamfights. they call it "crazy damage")