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Its really about time to remove that stupid "Utility scaling" for supports...

Raoul··3 votes·1,101 views

I mean honestly, which giant braindead IDIOT even had this idea?

Really, I wish to know how that meeting went. "Hey, you know these Champions that never get any money and barely have any Items, and if they do, they buy supportive Items instead of AP and the only impact they have in the game is the utility they provide?" "Yes?" "Lets make their utility base stats suck hard and make them scale with AP!" "GENIUS!"

I mean... WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE? I know it has been years, but I was silently waiting for you to just ADMIT YOUR MISTAKE and just quietly reverse this bullshit changes, but you never did!

Supports are still the weakest link in any game, and dont act like they are not while you are now FORCING PEOPLE to play support because NOONE FUCKING WANTS TO!

Utility should be the selling point of every support hero, but Nuke mages or tanks just do the job better, because the Utility on most of them sucks. Sona is literally only picked because of her insane damage poke early game and Soraka because her healiung is just broken AF. The only Support whos actually picked because of Utility in the top 5 support picks is Janna and that is because her Ultimate counters the heavy engage everyone and their fucking mosther has a gapcloser meta we have like forever!

Get rid of that stupid scaling and balance the supports around offering awesome utility, not being able to poke people out of lane (Sona) or just plain making any kind of trading a bad decision for the enemy team (Soraka).

30 Comments

Walentzack5 votes

I'm sorry but you can lose the game easily when you're ahead if your support is bad. The support has a big impact on team fights and if you can't see that, well you're probably the one getting carried.

As for not being able to 'carry' if your team sucks, well no matter what role you play you'll lose the match if your teammates are monkeys. It has nothing to do with being in support role.

Raoul1 votes

{quoted}

I'm sorry but you can lose the game easily when you're ahead if your support is bad.

Only if the support keeps feeding the enemy carry...

Walentzack1 votes

A bad support will feed and not ward properly. That means their adc will be fed and u'll lose cause no vision.

S0kaX4 votes

{quoted}

Supports are still the weakest link in any game, and dont act like they are not while you are now FORCING PEOPLE to play support because NOONE FUCKING WANTS TO!

Actually people don't play support because they want to "shine" and the support's job is not to shine, but to help others shine.

Raoul1 votes

Strange... in games like DoTA you can shine as a support, because you actually have power to influence the outcome of the game.

S0kaX3 votes

So you're saying support don't influence the outcome of the game. And don't say you don't because you just said.

Raoul2 votes

Yes, that is exactly what I said. A Support can only make a team that is already ahead win harder. If your team doesnt win already, you cant do shit about it.

S0kaX1 votes

you can, trust me. I'm a support main and some hooks ( Thresh ) made my 0/5/0 adc become a machine gun and carried the team.

Raoul1 votes

If supports were good, RIOT wouldnt have to force people to play them. We both know that most likely 99% of all autoifills are Supports!

And Tanks are played just right, and they dont stack up kills either. Its only support where you actually have to force people to play it.

S0kaX1 votes

It's not just the kills thing (although tanks usually get more kills than supports), it's the fact that you have to rely on your ADC to not suck. If you're an ADC, and your support sucks, you can at least rely on ganks from lanes and jungle, but if you're support and your ADC suck there's nothing you can do and you have to rely on other lanes to carry.

Raoul1 votes

You said it. If you are an ADC and your support sucks: You can work around it, because your role can have an impact. If you are a Support and your ADC sucks, you are doomed, because your role is only good if you support someone who is already good, because you on yourself have no impact on the games outcome.

S0kaX1 votes

there is always late game and mid game

Raoul1 votes

Where every other class starts to get insane powerspikes while you are still as weak as you were at early game. Lategame you are even more useless if your teammates didnt snowball hard enough.

S0kaX1 votes

But you can help your teammates snowball in early by roaming, also did you hear of Thresh ? or Bard ? Useless in lategame? How?

Raoul1 votes

Yes, you can HELP a GOOD player to snowball, but if they dont, you are fucked. You cant take things into your own hand. You cant do anything if your team doesnt snowball.

You are as reliant on your team as a Diver is on the air supply on his back. You can be the best Diver in the world, but if that bottle on your back doesnt work, you will die and there is NOTHING you can do about it.

S0kaX1 votes

My question to you is: If supports are useless then why the heck even bother to exist????? why not double jungling instead of having a support? why not only 4 people in a match?

Raoul1 votes

Because DotA had 5 players, LoL is based on DotA, but RIOT had no idea how to do support right.

S0kaX1 votes

So if supports are that bad why not double jungling? or duo marksman bot? Why do supports exist if they are useless and why don't we change that if we know it?

Raoul1 votes

Because you need a ward bitch and a scapegoat to keep the important role alive during early game so they can farm to carry. If they dont... well, sucks to be you, not like you could do anything without them.

S0kaX1 votes

so they do have an impact

SchmidttyGames3 votes

Zyra also.

If there were actual numbers that reflect what Supports should do well, like damage mitigated (shielded or avoided) or a standardized vision control rating (wards placed + wards destroyed / enemies spotted by wards or whatever), the average glory hound would appreciate the role more. As it stands, most players simply want that pentakill and to be the hero.

Did it ever occur to you that shitting on the role, and by default everyone who is a Support Main, could be the reason why most Supports don't appreciate your opinion of it?

S0kaX1 votes

You replied to the wrong comment but it's ok

Raoul1 votes

Actually, Zyra is just another proof of what I said. Shes a mage that has been taken as a support because a mage with a root is a better support than actual support champions.

SchmidttyGames2 votes

Depends entirely on who you're facing. I wouldn't take Zyra into anything with hard engage (Leona/Alistar) and she is outright countered by one specific ADC (Miss Fortune). Much like Brand, she is typically a direct response to someone like Soraka and Sona who can simply heal any damage you do. So you have to do more. Only Zyra mains can bring her into any fight, like any other main.

But Support is less about the champion you play, and more about the knowledge you bring to the role. If you're getting beaten to every objective and the enemy always seems to know where you're going, look no further than the wards category. Their Support was all over you and you never knew it.

The role is far more than just being the carry's bitch. It's vision control, objective control, wave management, sometimes roaming to help, sometimes imposing your will on your lane, and almost never boring if you know what you're doing. Until you learn to dodge skillshots while watching the minimap, keeping tabs on Top, Mid, and looking for signs of their Jungler, and understanding what your opponent is trying to do and thinking of ways to beat them to it, you haven't really been a Support.

AMYS GRAVE1 votes

Oh yeah, supports have an influence over the game, but they are ultimitly force multipliers to their team. The best hook in the world is worthless if your team doesn't or can't follow up. A good support with a good team is a godly combination but a good support with a bad team does not win a game generally speaking.

Floofz1 votes

while I agree that making utility scale off AP on supports when u usually don't get much AP due to being gold restricted and the items u want to build have very little to no ap, unless ur a mage support like zyra brand, kinda doesn't make sense. Id love if they added more base utility into supports kits and just kinda cut/gutt ap scaling on them as it would fit the philosophy of you don't need gold to perform ur job. However I do believe that supports can carry a game by enabling your carrys to live long enough to kill the enemy/provide crucial vision for objectives and allow ur team to capitalize on that however one way or another as a support you are team reliant especially since you by urself usually cant push/take objectives by urself or flat out result in the death of those who u need to kill to get more objectives unless your fed and are zyra/brand or through means of creating the opportunity for someone else to kill them through cc. As for your comments on only a few see play mainly soraka janna the reason is because enchanters serve the purpose of keeping there teammates alive for as long as possible through the use off some kind of way of granting effective health and then you get the problem of well these couple perfom that role better then the rest so why play anything else then. Why would you play lulu who gives one person like 1300 more hp when you can play soraka or janna who can give there team like 4k assuming all heals/shields are being consumed/not overhealing. Its a problem with the class lacking distinctive idenititys late game because usually they have one ability and an ult that defines them late game and then there other abilities/passive tend to just be there and lack little impact in most cases. I believe taric is a good example of what enchanters should be as all 4 of his spells and even his passive matter throughout the entire game. His passive gives him damage early and a proactive way to reduce his cds increasing his uptime in fights. His Q fuels his passive with a nice aoe heal tagged to it, his W is a shield based on HP% meaning it scales throughout the game and is always relevant. His E is a sona ulitimate on a basic ability with less range/width and his ult is a huge game changing ability centered around protecting his team but has both offensive and defensive applications. His kit just flows very well with itself. Then you have champs like raka/janna who when I atleast think late game just think of there ult/w (for raka) and e (for janna) as there real identity I never really think of raka Q outside of laning phase and while her E can b impactful Its situational same goes with janna q then both of there passives are just kinda bleh where they sometimes are like hey that was kinda helpful but don't really contribute a lot to the match as a whole. But hey maybe will get an enchanter class update one day who knows.

Raoul1 votes

Dude, while I think your post is correct, you really should put in paragraphs...

This Wall of text is horrible to read...

Floofz1 votes

{quoted}

Dude, while I think your post is correct, you really should put in paragraphs...

This Wall of text is horrible to read...

yea mb lol

VoraciousX1 votes

Heal+shield power items work better than any AP you're going to build as a support. Just get those instead. Your AP ratios won't matter if you can shield for an extra half of what your base shield is just for having windspeakers+40%heal+shield power.(not to mention Ardent Censer gives 60 AP, which is usually around 20-30 in shields)

0otay1 votes

I agree, we need more utility supports like BBard Janna Nami Lulu Zilean

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