Boards›Gameplay

8.12 Shield Nerf Feedback & Discussion: Janna, Karma, Lulu

mSticky·6/14/2018, 8:11:41 AM·13 votes·8,687 views

I'm MattUSticky, a plat support main. http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=mattusticky

I wrote a long post earlier this week about why I felt the 8.12 shield nerfs went too far, and, as expected, the nerfs went through anyway. This post is meant for me to give my feedback after testing the nerfed supports and hear yours as well.

For those of you who weren't aware, Janna had her shield modified to decay over the duration after a .75s delay, and Karma, Lulu, and Orianna had their shields reduced to 2.5s.

Let's go down the list:

Janna - **Verdict: Appropriate ** This was the most graceful nerf in my opinion. A decaying shield doesn't excessively impact Janna's overall playstyle (i.e. spam shield on her ADC), rewards good play (timed shields) over bad ones, and should bring down her excessive 53% win rate in lower ELOs at least. Of all the nerfs, this one should probably stick.

Karma - **Verdict: Unnoticeable Early, Hurts Mid/Late ** Karma doesn't max shield in lane, so the shield duration nerf isn't really noticeable. It does, however, start to become an issue during the mid and late game. While her shield's 2.5s duration is usually enough time to get decent value for allies already IN combat, it is usually not enough time for aggressive allies to chase down enemies and THEN fight. Considering that one of Mantra E's main functions is to help Karma's team run down isolated enemies, the duration noticeably weakened Karma's engaging shield efficiency. This would not be a problem if Karma had a winrate like Janna's, but considering that she was sitting at 47% in her pre-nerfed state, she's probably going to need some love next patch.

Lulu - **Verdict: Feels. @#$@ing. Awful. ** We all saw it coming. This nerf is by far the most noticeable and the most painful of all three, and the numbers back it up. Dropping from a 6s shield to 2.5s shield is nearly a 60% decrease in shield uptime, and Lulu feels it the moment the laning phase ends. With proper timing, Lulu can still get similar defensive burst mitigation results to before, though a bit weaker (read: Forbidden Idol nerfs & shorter overall uptime). However, the duration nerf considerably hurt her aggressive playmaking range, as a preemptive shield + speed up on an engager is usually fading by the time the ally has started fighting, resulting in wasted shields. This. Feels. Bad. After playing several games, it feels like Lulu is considerably worse at assisting allies who aren't in her direct proximity (which is tough as a short range, low mobility support), and that her playmaking options are even more shoehorned into a "sit on my backline" role as a result. Nerfs aside, Lulu has fallen out of favor recently as bruisers and mages have moved into the bot lane, and this change will certainly drop her 50% win rate in the few games she shows up in moving forward.

Final Opinions: Janna feels fine, Karma took a hit (but needed help already), and Lulu got beat up. I'd be surprised if Riot doesn't give the latter two some help in 8.13.

Discussion What do you guys think? How does it feel fighting with/against/as Janna, Karma, and Lulu this patch? Do you notice the changes?

18 Comments

Onkel Malte6/14/2018, 8:30:54 PM3 votes

I think the shield duration reduction was fine, however, it was a little harsh. My opinion on the nerfs:

Janna shield should fall off after 1 second instead of 0.75s. Lulu shield with 4 seconds instead of 2.5 would be fine enough as a nerf. KarmaOrianna If anything, reduce the duration to from 4s to 3s, and not to 2.5s. Both were not very shield centred characters after all. And to be honest, Karma needs some big work done on her especially after this hit.

Suppordle6/14/2018, 12:15:25 PM3 votes

I posted about this, but yours is much better made. Lulu feels awful. I will avoid playing on my main and smurf (pretty much avoid playing altogether) until they fix this. While I took today off work, I generally don't have time to grind ranked, so I play a few normals here and there. But for those, who want to grind with their favorite champions in ranked, this must feel even worse. I trust the balance team's judgement, they will help her out. My idea is for Morello/executioner's calling to hit shields as well. That will be an indirect nerf to Urgot/Shen/Sion, etc, but it will help the enemy team ITEMISE against the 'frustrating' shield comp. [sg-janna]

IxtaliKing6/14/2018, 12:16:40 PM2 votes

Everything you said is pretty much as I expected, Karma's shield will feel the same at earlier levels because of the MS boost. Karma's has always been more of a reactive shield compared to a support like Lulu. Not surprised by it falling off later in the game for the reasons you stated and it's lower scaling.

For Janna these changes just make her a bit fairer to deal with, but I don't imagine this hurting skilled Janna players much.

Lulu would take this nerf hardest as she's coming from a 6 second shield down to 2.5. I could be wrong but it seemed to me that her 6s shield duration was to support the on hit buff, which to me seems like a spell to prep for an extended trade. The lower duration makes what appeared to be a proactive ability into a reactive one, which feels off.

Conclusion: They all need reworks to varying degrees. Imo Janna could actually do with a VGU since there's so much that could be done (ability wise) with that wind theme.

DontTouchMyBall6/14/2018, 7:16:17 PM2 votes

No1 talking about my main shield support Orianna ?

My opinion if any1 cares: It certainly doesnt feel as awful as the others shield nerfs but she wasn't in a good place to begin with.

Lystrates6/17/2018, 9:41:41 PM2 votes

Both Lulu and Karma right now are unplayable (unless you are ok with your team carrying you). I dont see the point in picking either one. WIth the 2.5 shield, just play Lux and do massive amounts of Damage and have one of the most powerful roots in the game. Why would anyone play Lulu now? There are just better choices out there.

I am sad that Riot made these changes in a vacuum without compensatory buffs. I am also sad that we have not had an enchanter support since Nami. In all honesty, right now just play a Mage support. There is no reason not to.

mSticky6/14/2018, 10:15:27 AM2 votes

bump. Really? No opinions?

Jarring6/14/2018, 8:36:15 PM1 votes

i think it sucks. the point of shields is to have them preemptively. reducing the duration totally removes any edge shields had over heals. Now it just feels like a worse version of a heal that gets redacted after a few seconds. I have a feeling they will eventually have to nerf the heals to compensate for the shield nerfs. also many shield supports will have to start building athene's and going straight AP instead of actual support items. They might be able to go redemption cuz it works so well with athene's but other than that, it seems like a mistake on riot's part. A huge mistake.

Salson6/14/2018, 9:13:46 PM1 votes

Pretty much everyone will tell you Karma needs an update, an Aatrox level update. Sure, they should give her some compensation so make her at least viable, but core issues won't be addressed so easily.

Sheldons6/14/2018, 9:38:00 PM1 votes

I can’t believe riot implemented these changes. Shields are crap compared to cc supports who get a guaranteed kill/wasted flash when they hook someone.

Lulu is unplayable right now and Janna feels decent.

These nerfs were in no way merited.

Why is it that we as a community have absolutely NO say in the game that we support with micro transactions?

I wish we could do something that would make riot hurt like what players did to EA.

ChaddyFantome6/21/2018, 12:31:56 AM1 votes

Well said. Couldn't have put it better myself.

I feel like the Duration nerfs in of themselves were the right way to go, but Karma and lulu definitely need compensations.

The Yetii Rider6/14/2018, 12:34:36 PM1 votes

Karma should build Shurelya's Reverie anyway, as should Lulu.

Noor Sakata6/14/2018, 4:48:24 PM1 votes

Tbh if Lulu had to get a nerf , I would rather nerfing the amount of damage she can shield from , and/or nerf her W , since it's already the reason what makes Lulu a Lulu

Solidair36/14/2018, 5:08:02 PM1 votes

I've played as both Lulu and Karma thus far this patch. Playing as Karma felt, as you said, about the same in lane. Shield is not maxed first, and so the protection that comes with it will usually break before the 2.5 seconds is up. I did notice the shielding to be less effective in the mid-late game, but overall I didn't hurt TOO much on that front. Granted, when I play Karma, I'm typically building higher AP items and AP support items, so I feel the decreased shielding isn't SUPER noticeable, but change nonetheless. That being said, Karma WAS already weak and definitely needs some help. I'm hoping she gets some number buffs just to keep her afloat while we wait for some much needed changes (which we are told will be at the LeBlanc/Rengar level, so nothing CRAZY major). Frankly I prefer her in mid where she was even weaker (46% winrate compared to 47% for support), but I'll take what I can get at this point.

I played Lulu in two games thus far (one was an ARAM, though, so I won't count that one). Frankly I didn't notice much change. I tend to max Help, Pix! first in lane (which I assume is standard?) and, with proper timing did not notice any major issues. I typically prefer to shield reactively so I have not had a problem sending an engager in with Whimsy. However I am in Gold, so my games may not be as intense. I sense these changes might her Lulu specifically at higher elo, but overall I haven't felt too much effect. She might need some buffs, I don't think she was especially strong in the last patch and taking a hit like this might put her around Karma's place last patch.

I have not played Janna this patch, but I expect her to be the same as ever, and frankly she could take a win rate hit. I love her but I can't even remember the last time I thought "Is Janna not the strongest support this patch?"

Anyway, hopefully we'll have something coming for Lulu and Karma. A little for Lulu and a lot for Karma, preferably.

Arìes Wínd6/14/2018, 5:47:44 PM1 votes

Conclusion : NERF IT MORE ! Joking.

rtbf2236394336/14/2018, 6:30:01 PM1 votes

This season I've been playing a lot of Brand and other poke supports like lux and soraka E max. With the shield nerfs I have a little bit more opportunity to poke the enemy adc in lane. That is if I play Brand. So the enemy Jana or Lulu has to be super good and shield right at the exact time I put my Brand W. They can't shield preemptively anymore and allow their adc to go in and farm with the shield on.

Feels really good to be playing Brand support, or any other damaging support.