Open letter to Riot regarding the new Thornmail

GrotesqueImagery·7/11/2017, 7:33:58 PM·3 votes·1,169 views

I just want to have an open, honest discussion about the Thornmail changes that we are seeing in the most recent patch notes.

**TL;DR The new Thornmail is a huge counter to every single ADC in existence, and it alone gives a tank EVERY single stat they would itemize against an ADC in one inventory slot. **

I understand the initial idea, allowing tanks to have a CHANCE against sustain AP bruiser style champs, like Vladimir and Swain. While this is going to achieve exactly what you intend it to, it is also one of the biggest ADC nerfs I've seen in awhile. Is it really worth it to nerf every ADC in the game just to buff tanks (again) allowing them to counter two champions? Well really it's more than a counter to just Swain and Vladimir.

Every support in the game will likely build Tabi+bramble vest. That combined with the HP from sightstone, ADC will have a much harder time in lane, especially now considering BORK is still quite meta on most ADC's, even after the 3% lifesteal reduction in patch 7.11. The grevious wounds effect will likely phase out most use of ignite users in the bot lane, so we'll see exhaust mostly. Soraka, Sona, Taric, Nami, will all be CONSIDERABLY nerfed. ADC's wouldn't need to build executioners calling anymore, your support can just build bramble vest instead.

But I have one serious question.

Why do you feel the need to give Thornmail 5 "things"?

250 HP 75 Armor Damage Reflect Cold Steel Grevious wounds to attackers

Lately, as in the last two or three years, you guys have had a fixation on saturating the game with effects. Look at Kayn's kit, and then look at any champion released in season 2. Look at Ekko's kit, look at new Galio, look at Camille. I know it's sort of a meme, but "Camille's E is literally Jarvan IV's QWE in one" is not too far off from accurate. This new thornmail is just another example of this overloading of effects.

Playing ADC was (and still kind of is) frustrating enough with Ninja Tabi being purchased in nearly every single role, as well as most tanks having the tools and base damages to deal nearly 75% of an ADC lifepool in one rotation of their abilities. This combined with the complete ease of achieving 40% or 45% CDR and we have what's called movement creep. ANYWAYS... Tanks have just received one item that counters every single ADC in the entire game, for the entire game, and the item is cheaper than one core item on ADC's.

Thornmail giving health means it makes the armor more "effective", which means that champions that wouldn't normally build thornmail now can. Yasuo (as if he's not tanky enough with tabi+PD+passive shield+frozen mallet) can now just build thornmail and ACTUALLY be the most disgusting ADC counter we've ever seen.

I understand the attempt to give tanks some love, but it's sad to see this happening yet again. Every time we see ADC finally becoming powerful something happens that considerably buffs tanks. ADC is actually drawing bans and it's kind of awesome!

It feels like you're holding the "tank" 's hand, giving them something that will help them at every stage of the game. Tanks will always become tanky (given a long enough game), and they usually have farming tools available to them to CS rather efficiently (see your Galio rework).

I'm sure you've considered everything that I've said, but I just want to express my frustrations.

36 Comments

ZT Xperimentor7/11/2017, 7:49:40 PM3 votes

To be fair, marksmen have had an item to counter tanks in every way for the past year. Dominik's regards deals more damage against champions with more health, and has significant armor penetration; both huge counters against tanks when it already has decent attack damage. Last whisper was left separate from blade of the ruined king for a reason.

Big Lincoln7/11/2017, 7:45:56 PM3 votes

old thornmail would do more damage to counter lifesteal than new thornmail's after you have more armor items

it's better early and as a standalone item but assuming they're building armor specifically to counter you, you'd be healing off them more end-game

Evil Yasuo7/11/2017, 7:37:07 PM3 votes

Tanks are broken, what else is new.

Ralanr7/11/2017, 8:11:56 PM2 votes

Against champions and teams that lean on heavy healing and regeneration effects, tanky melee types sometimes feel like they’re actually hurting their team by serving as convenient health batteries. While mages have Morellonomicon and other carries have Executioner’s Calling to help focus down healing-oriented threats, we wanted to make sure that melee champs can at least force high-sustain damage dealers to look elsewhere for their healing

They don't specifically mean people like Swain or Vlad here. They could also point towards heavy sustaining building marksmen or even against tanks like Maokai or Zac.

Honestly I'm still not sure if they can make this work healthy, but I'm tired of having to build item 3123 in place of my ADC to deal with a heavy sustain threat when I'm a tank, so I'm glad we're getting it.

FiddlesOnTheRoof7/11/2017, 7:43:03 PM2 votes

Here comes the "but adcs are busted" flame.

Escheton7/12/2017, 6:48:14 AM2 votes

Binary thinking. Adc main?

Commando Yi7/12/2017, 7:33:17 PM1 votes

mwf when an adc main doesn't understand that he won't be killing himself on thornmail anymore