Jin Balance Discussion: Captive Audiance

{quoted}

The situation you described would actually be very difficult to pull off and would most likely result in a burned flash instead of a kill.

From the other side of the argument there is this:

Every trap in the game has instant effects once triggered while Jhin's has delayed effects. In this meta where the majority of champs have movement abilities and so many items provide movement speed it is fairly easy to avoid a trap's damage once set off

In norder: Should not be a valid argument because this situation can be replicated more often than the cooldown of Flash allows.

I addressed that issue already by stating a CC support would allow for the trap to go off. You would be surprised how many people don't use mobility properly and fail to use it to get out of the traps. The traps also have the highest combined hybrid scaling in the game. with 120/100 split. so why do they also get to stack their damage and slow? There is also technically a delay on the GP barrel damage. you have to wait for him to set the barrel off. Especially if he chained the barrels to extend the range on the damage.

{quoted}

The situation you described would actually be very difficult to pull off and would most likely result in a burned flash instead of a kill.

From the other side of the argument there is this:

Every trap in the game has instant effects once triggered while Jhin's has delayed effects. In this meta where the majority of champs have movement abilities and so many items provide movement speed it is fairly easy to avoid a trap's damage once set off

I addressed all of the cc and W stuff in the post directly prior to posting. If you would care to go back through.

{quoted}

Because the trap detonation can be easily avoided so they thought it wouldn't be necessary to limit it.

I avoid it with Varus all the time

Read the post please. I addressed avoidance, as well as precedence, and comparison, and a fairly common pairing that jhin can use to create balance issue.

[{quoted}](name=Billy VoHagen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=84sRNM76,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2016-04-06T00:25:19.455+0000)

I love how you list a very specific situation that is really hard to pull off. Did you also know that if you let veigar get 2000 bonus ap, he can kill you with 1 W.

Also, in the league of mobility and with so many people getting Swifty boots, you should be able to walk out of the trap. If he's stacking them all in one spot, he's giving up a lot of vision and control of areas. Also, if you didn't know, they do reduced damage after being hit by one.

[{quoted}](name=Billy VoHagen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=84sRNM76,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2016-04-06T00:27:31.781+0000)

Even if they adc is full damage (you're really not proving the point you think you are) the traps do magic damage, and many ADC's get either maw or mercurial scimitar.

{quoted}

I did and you clearly don't understand trade offs.

If his traps detonation are easier to avoid then he needs something that makes up for it. That's a basic concept.

In order for each point quoted:

1: We are also discussing something that takes a tremendous amount of time to earn the potential to have, where jhin currently can have this capacity to ace withing the fist few minutes of the game. I will now amend the calculations of damage: (280 + 4(0.6(280))) = 1192 magical damage at level 9. While this is nearly 700 less than previously calculated. This is quite the bit of damage.

2: And yes I will agree that the vision loss is quite staggering. BUT he should be managing his wards properly and getting Pink wards, and placing his vision wards on cd. same with his support. there is no reason why they should lack bush control if they are using one fo the support pairings I have already listed (Blitszcrank, Thresh, Nautilus, and even Nami, Lux, or Morgana.)

3: Swift Boots are a thing, but You are talking about the average person in Soloque. How reliable are they going to not make a stupid play? or pay enough attention to noticed the traps are stacked? Not many. Higher Elo (where I most certainly am not) may certainly notice) but below play most likely won't. Especially if they get hard cc'ed over the traps when they go to engage or ward.

4: Bear in mind. Gangplank used to have stacking damage on his barrels. and being able to 1 hit kill players early game was why they kept getting nerfed over and over and over again. That is the precedent i am using to base my argument on.
The Logic is "If no there is trap in the game is allowed to have this ability, This this trap should not." and "This trap had this ability and it was found to be broken and unfair even when a delay of damage was added to the ability, therefore this ability still should not have stacking damage"
"If A no b, Then no b." and 'If A b and b was removed, then remove b."

5: I do understand the trade-off. He has a slow which combos the snare on his w which is meant to allow for the increased damage, which has the some of the highest combined base scaling of any ability in the game at 220% (120% ad and 100%). THe ability has absurd base damage. So why then should the ability which already has obscene base damage, and a champion with absurd ad scaling from his passive then get stacking damage on said ability as well? even at a 60% reduction? ESPECIALLY when you look at point 4. Just walk out, should not be a valid answer to is this ability unbalanced. the question i am asking is "Should you not be unable to escape, Should the damage still be able to stack enough to 1 hit an enemy champion?" Gangplank had that abilty removed after many consecutive nerfs. including a similar effect to the current state of Jhins traps where there was a detonation delay (in his case a .25 second delay per barrel in the chain) and % reduced damage from each additional barrel. But it only promoted stacking them on top of each other and spamming them to 1 hit kill people.

It is less about Is 1 trap fair, and is the slow fair and is the ability as a whole fair. but is the circum stace in which you are unable to get out fair and abalnced? Something can be Balanced, underpowerd or overpowerd and still be fundamentally broken. It would be a nerf to burst damage, but a quality of life fix to the game. it would put an end to bulshit deaths and make all jhin player be more tactical. And actually play the champ as intended.

[{quoted}](name=Taiku Altergrund,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=84sRNM76,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-04-06T00:03:27.290+0000)

If for some reason the detonation could not be avoided for some reason

Most peoples point is that the damage is easily avoided. Also going back Jhin can not stack traps limitlessly... going for a blitz odds are your going to be looking at 2 or 3. Remember that jhins traps deal less damage to folks hit by one recently at 65% damage . So your math (201*1.2+260)5 is a bad reflection of the abilitys damage output and again most people will point out your investing over 1 min of game play setting up that nest and also have to hope no one interferes with it and that said blitz lands the grab. Realistically i would use 3 traps as math for a best case as that's do able by having 1 down earlier then dumping 2 more on top. Just remember to do the reduction this time.

Even if they adc is full damage (you're really not proving the point you think you are) the traps do magic damage, and many ADC's get either maw or mercurial scimitar.

Personal i thought old poppy was massively overpowered but i jungled her.