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Jin Balance Discussion: Captive Audiance

Taiku Altergrund·4/5/2016, 11:25:20 PM·3 votes·1,205 views

FOR REFERENCE

Teemo Mushroom's (pre-bounce form) did not stack explosion damage when you got caught in multiple blasts. Now they space out in a way the blast zones don't naturally overlap.

Gangplank Barrels: Do not stack damage.

Caitlyn Traps: Do not stack damage.

Jih's Captive Audience: Stacks Damage limitlessly. '

Why is this? Is this fair? How would this be fair? Should this be allowed? Can this be allowed when no other trap in the game does this?

Captive Audience Stealths like Teemo Shrooms. And while it deals damage at the end, A single crowd control effect is enough to allow the damage to go off. We will assume he has 5 traps in 1 spot, a blitz grabs the jungler who comes in for a gank and knocks them up when he sets the traps off. that is 5x (260 +(1.2*[average 100 ad])) for a total of a free 1900 damage at level 9 before ult, w, or q from jhin. and excluding the hook and punch damage. that is an instant kill

NO OTHER CHAMPION. in the game has this ability

The jungler has no idea where the traps are, or if they used sweeper to clear wards, a way to spot them. or even if you swap blitz for thresh/ naught. you have a similar issue.

What are your thoughts?

My opinion is to remove the ability for the traps to stack damage. Force Jhin to use them as intended. No champion should be able to 1 shot anyone in the game at lvl 9 with no contest.

20 Comments

Kai Guy4/5/2016, 11:31:52 PM3 votes

Season 2. Ap shaco. Could level 1 insta gib dragon (not like gone in a second but it would be dead moments after spawn.) . the jib nests destroyed folks. Jhin with out W or allied cc should never be able to 1 shot some one with captive, unless they goof up.

Crowe Stalker4/6/2016, 12:19:15 AM2 votes

First off, Jhin's Captivate Audience has a 60% damage fall-off after the first trap. Second, Jhin's traps take two seconds to go off and the slow is negligible. Anyone with boots could walk the opposite way and anyone with a movement item (save Anivia) could legit walk through them before they go off. Sure, Deadly Flourish can reach 2 seconds of immobilization, but you have to rank it up to get there (and that takes away from leveling Captivate Audience)

If you die to Jhin 6 Traps, chances are pretty solid either you were playing badly or the enemy is really good.

Billy VoHagen4/6/2016, 12:25:19 AM2 votes

I love how you list a very specific situation that is really hard to pull off. Did you also know that if you let veigar get 2000 bonus ap, he can kill you with 1 W.

Also, in the league of mobility and with so many people getting Swifty boots, you should be able to walk out of the trap. If he's stacking them all in one spot, he's giving up a lot of vision and control of areas. Also, if you didn't know, they do reduced damage after being hit by one.

Slythion4/5/2016, 11:39:50 PM2 votes

The situation you described would actually be very difficult to pull off and would most likely result in a burned flash instead of a kill.

From the other side of the argument there is this:

Every trap in the game has instant effects once triggered while Jhin's has delayed effects. In this meta where the majority of champs have movement abilities and so many items provide movement speed it is fairly easy to avoid a trap's damage once set off

Hayaishi24/5/2016, 11:40:26 PM2 votes

Because the trap detonation can be easily avoided so they thought it wouldn't be necessary to limit it.

I avoid it with Varus all the time

Taiku Altergrund4/6/2016, 1:40:19 AM1 votes

Number balance =/= mechanical balance

This is why Old poppy was not balanced even though she was massively underpowered.

It is why yorik is not fun to play against even though his kit is not powerful.

Something can be wrong and it be numerically fine. I am not saying change the damage or even remove stacking damage entirely.

Posible solutions:

Max number of traps that can damage you: 2

Remove stacking damage.

Remove the Ap scaling on them

Reduce the AD and ap scaling on them since they have a cc component and trigger the ability to land another cc component.

Taiku Altergrund4/6/2016, 12:03:27 AM1 votes

Allow me to put a different perspective.

If for some reason the detonation could not be avoided for some reason JUST LIKE WITH THE GANGPLANK BARRELS ON A CHAIN (pre-nerf). An LVL 9 jhin with just a BF sword can 1 hit kill an LVL 18 all damage build ADC. IS THIS FAIR?

No that is not fair or balanced. now let us ramp that up to infinity edge and LVL 18. Just those 2 things. (201*1.2+260)5. That is about 2600 damage at lvl 18. with 1 item and a decent position and teammate. with 1 item. that kills anyone not full tank.

Is that fair? No it is not. They nerfed gangplank's barrels for having this potential. Why does Jhin get to keep this?

Taiku Altergrund4/6/2016, 12:17:19 AM1 votes

Oh. As for the reengage. They would probably have 1 of 2 options. either back out after the kill on the jungler, turn and go for another kill.

I would probably say they would back out most of the time because they spent kit on the easy kill. and wait for abilities to come up before going back to farm stance and resetting the scenario. and low levels even 2-3 traps is enough with the other abilities added in to get the kill. I am just pointing out the maximums.