Revert LeBlanc's 'update'.

dakota saturn·Nov 20, 2016·4 votes·1,323 views

It's awful. Go to r/LeBlancmains. Nobody likes it.

Her winrate took a crap after 25 minutes. She is in a horrible place, and lost everything that made her fun.

downvotes

24 Comments

VisthaNov 20, 20164 votes

She is crap, because using her W in teamfights is a trap, thanks to the lock-out on reactivating Distortion.

Hence why her winrate goes to shit after the 25th minute. That's where most teamfights happen.

If it wasn't for that, she'd be completely fine.

AstôlfoNov 20, 20161 votes

It gives "counterplay" but also makes her trash. Her still being forced on a 1.5s lockout in mid/late also makes her trash. As does having any sort of on-target CD between simultaneous mark procs. Which should be 0.

BeatzBoyFTWNov 20, 20161 votes

It's only been like what, a week or two? Give her more time.

DauntNov 20, 20161 votes

Every assassin's win rate has gotten worse because people need to adapt to the changes.

I'm sorry that you think it's healthy to kill somebody with q->rq->e, and what was even fun about that? I, for one, like the changes they did to her. She actually fits her theme now and is way harder to be successful with. Now she has a better wave clear than most mages do, anyone that's crying about LeBlanc's rework is either dumb or not capable of passing through her stupid old two dimensional kit.

dakota saturnNov 20, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Killer Instinct,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7whUzdxZ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-11-20T15:25:35.036+0000)

Every assassin's win rate has gotten worse because people need to adapt to the changes.

I'm sorry that you think it's healthy to kill somebody with q->rq->e, and what was even fun about that? I, for one, like the changes they did to her. She actually fits her theme now and is way harder to be successful with. Now she has a better wave clear than most mages do, anyone that's crying about LeBlanc's rework is either dumb or not capable of passing through her stupid old two dimensional kit.

And it's also clear that everyone who thinks the rework is fine has never played LeBlanc in their life. It's a fact that her winrate tanks after 25 minutes, and she's absolutely useless in late game teamfights in comparison to every single other champion in her role. She can't even kill the enemy APC or ADC after 25 minutes. I don't care if she can't QRW and do it - LB simply doesn't have the toolkit to fight anyone by herself because she's gated by the 1.5s lockout. Every single other champion in the game will be able to put out their full burst in less than 1/4 that time, and kill her before the chain is even close to proc'ing.

I mean, it's clear people are well aware that she's in a much worse place now - but since people just don't like the champion, they're cool with her being a potato after midgame.

AstôlfoNov 20, 20161 votes

And then you realize she's just a far shittier mage now?

dakota saturnNov 20, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Killer Instinct,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7whUzdxZ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-11-20T15:25:35.036+0000)

Every assassin's win rate has gotten worse because people need to adapt to the changes.

I'm sorry that you think it's healthy to kill somebody with q->rq->e, and what was even fun about that? I, for one, like the changes they did to her. She actually fits her theme now and is way harder to be successful with. Now she has a better wave clear than most mages do, anyone that's crying about LeBlanc's rework is either dumb or not capable of passing through her stupid old two dimensional kit.

Also, every assassin whose name isn't Kha'Zix Rengar or Talon was objectively nerfed. No shit they're going to have a lower winrate now - that was the intention all along; to make things easier for ADCs to farm to late game. It's not a matter of 'l2p' or getting used to the changes - she is in a worse spot than she was, and she doesn't have a clear role, when that was supposed to be what the rework would give her.

If she doesn't have a role, struggles to do any of her intended purposes, and has an awful late game and massively oppressive early game.. wasn't this exactly what the rework was supposed to FIX rather than CAUSE?

DauntNov 20, 20161 votes

People are blowing it out of proportion.

Also, every assassin whose name isn't Kha'Zix Rengar or Talon was objectively nerfed

As a Katarina the only thing that changed was her skill floor, and in exchange she got more damage from her full combo.

The intention of the update was to make assassin's burst window longer, which they did achieve but in exchange each champion got a unique tool to outplay their opponents.

LeBlanc IS meant to fall off late game and IS suppose to be a champion that'll snow ball hard enough to force an early win, and still is. They extended the burst window by adding the 1.5s delay on her passive BUT also gave her invisibility when she uses Mimic, as well as the RR clone that's highly underrated.

The update did fix the struggles she had. She's got wave clear and her old W speed is back. The update WASN'T suppose to fix her late game, because she's suppose to fall off as every other assassin does as well (even tho they made Rengar way better at late game now).

dakota saturnNov 20, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Killer Instinct,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7whUzdxZ,comment-id=000100020000,timestamp=2016-11-20T17:53:11.102+0000)

People are blowing it out of proportion.

As a the only thing that changed was her skill floor, and in exchange she got more damage from her full combo.

The intention of the update was to make assassin's burst window longer, which they did achieve but in exchange each champion got a unique tool to outplay their opponents.

LeBlanc IS meant to fall off late game and IS suppose to be a champion that'll snow ball hard enough to force an early win, and still is. They extended the burst window by adding the 1.5s delay on her passive BUT also gave her invisibility when she uses Mimic, as well as the RR clone that's highly underrated.

The update did fix the struggles she had. She's got wave clear and her old W speed is back. The update WASN'T suppose to fix her late game, because she's suppose to fall off as every other assassin does as well (even tho they made Rengar way better at late game now).

It didn't fix anything. Old LB did fall off later in the game, but according to statistics, her winrate picked back up significantly after 40-45 minutes because of her pick potential and high death timers. If she could capitalize on an ADC being out of position, she could win the teamfight for her team. Current LB can't do this. Even if she catches an ADC who is blatantly out of position, she can't kill them before getting shot down because of a thing called life steal.

The invisibility on her mimic is 10% of what it used to be on her passive - you used to be able to use that 1s window to blink or flash and have your clone take your place - that's actually being deceptive and confusing. The current one spawns a clone that lasts less than 3 seconds, and it's predictable. Her wave clear was never an issue, especially late game with her R on a 14.5s cooldown.

If every assassin falls off late game and becomes useless, I ask - what is the point of them existing then? Before, it was a balanced trifecta: ADCs kill tanks, tanks kill assassins, assassins kill ADCs - you had to be cognizant and think of who you're facing and adjust your playstyle and build accordingly. Now it's ADCs kill tanks, ADCs kill assassins, assassins... are just there. Why on earth would they make a role that purposely falls off to the point of uselessness? Why would they make an entire subset of champions that do nothing but sit and leech gold and xp after 30 minutes when there was NOTHING WRONG with their existence in the first place? Assassins were already struggling in every tier above silver, and almost never saw any competitive play. Why on earth would they destroy them, and make them even weaker while giving broken abilities that don't work half the time?

I struggle to understand the logic of not only the people who developed this remake, but also the people who support it.

DauntNov 20, 20161 votes

They are what they are, champions who are suppose to snowball super hard and excel in focusing down and killing their target. That becomes hard when everybody has 6 items and are level 18 which is why they all fall off.

I don't fully agree to the logic of them being useless in late game, but that's just what they are.

EDIT:

And yes, i do think ADCs are too whiny and too privileged atm.

dakota saturnNov 20, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Killer Instinct,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7whUzdxZ,comment-id=00010002000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-20T18:33:05.435+0000)

They are what they are, champions who are suppose to snowball super hard and excel in focusing down and killing their target. That becomes hard when everybody has 6 items and are level 18 which is why they all fall off.

I don't fully agree to the logic of them being useless in late game, but that's just what they are.

EDIT:

And yes, i do think ADCs are too whiny and too privileged atm.

Falling off and becoming less effective is one thing. Being utterly and completely unable to do their intended job is another.

If you pit LB against any ADC or APC after 30 minutes (Besides one of the other ruined assassins, ofc), there isn't even a chance for LB. It's not a matter of outplaying, or using her abilities to their fullest - even using her entire kit, even if you jump and catch them offguard, she won't be able to kill anyone before getting killed.

This is not okay.

dakota saturnNov 20, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Killer Instinct,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7whUzdxZ,comment-id=000100020000,timestamp=2016-11-20T17:53:11.102+0000)

People are blowing it out of proportion.

43% winrate. Statistically one of the lowest of any champion in the game. That's not a skill floor issue, that's a balance issue. I really feel for Akali and Katarina mains - they got totally screwed over by this update. LB at least got a toxic early game to abuse and try to force FF20's from bad players - those two got nothing.

DauntNov 20, 20161 votes

Well, as a Katarina main i think the rework couldn't have gone better. Reason for the 43% win rate is because people still think they can face-roll with her. Honestly, new Katarina is broken in lane and has even less counters in the right hands.

Rock MDNov 20, 20161 votes

nobody likes it

https://www.reddit.com/r/LeBlancMains/comments/5dwfnu/i_actually_like_the_rework/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYVaSZ0SKmw

dakota saturnNov 20, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chairman Rock,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7whUzdxZ,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-11-20T16:53:20.482+0000)

https://www.reddit.com/r/LeBlancMains/comments/5dwfnu/i_actually_like_the_rework/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYVaSZ0SKmw

He cuts the video off before dying repeatedly to Fizz. He streamed that game in the video and right after he cuts it off, he loses all ability to do anything in the game. There was a long reddit thread about this particular game and Bjergsen not being 100% truthful. There was a link posted to the full replay which tells a very different story than Bjerg does.

The winrate statistic is an undisputable fact. Her being nerfed is an undisputable fact. The massive majority of LB players who despise the rework is an undisputable fact. Even in the reddit thread you posted, there are people who say that LB sucks and they're unhappy with the rework. That was a controversial topic you posted and doesn't really help your argument because in the comments, people argue with the topic creator and the people saying the rework sucks have more karma points than the original poster.

You can find framented evidence here and there to the contrary if you dig deep, similar to evidence of Bigfoot existing and aliens being responsible for 9/11, but if you live in the real world, the overwhelming majority is that people don't like it and she is significantly weaker.

At the very least, she is a completely different champion with a totally different playstyle that is overshadowed by every single other champion in her role now. Every single APC and ADC can delete LB with ease if she even tries to fight them past laning phase. Every fight LB enters after this point has to be a 2v1 or she will automatically lose.

How is that healthy or fun gameplay for anyone but ADC mains?

Rock MDNov 20, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=dakota saturn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7whUzdxZ,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-11-20T16:57:24.568+0000)

He cuts the video off before dying repeatedly to Fizz. He streamed that game in the video and right after he cuts it off, he loses all ability to do anything in the game. There was a long reddit thread about this particular game and Bjergsen not being 100% truthful. There was a link posted to the full replay which tells a very different story than Bjerg does.

The winrate statistic is an undisputable fact. Her being nerfed is an undisputable fact. The massive majority of LB players who despise the rework is an undisputable fact. Even in the reddit thread you posted, there are people who say that LB sucks and they're unhappy with the rework. That was a controversial topic you posted and doesn't really help your argument.

You can find framented evidence here and there to the contrary if you dig deep, similar to evidence of Bigfoot existing and aliens being responsible for 9/11, but if you live in the real world, the overwhelming majority is that people don't like it and she is significantly weaker.

At the very least, she is a completely different champion with a totally different playstyle that is overshadowed by every single other champion in her role now. Every single APC and ADC can delete LB with ease if she even tries to fight them past laning phase. Every fight LB enters after this point has to be a 2v1 or she will automatically lose.

How is that healthy or fun gameplay for anyone but ADC mains?

No it's not an undisputable fact. An undisputable fact is everyone does bad at least once and there's nothing they can do. IT HAPPENS. But his scores recently are insane.

And don't give me this real world condescending bullshit. LB has always been balanced around pro players, not Plat 5s and below like you. And look

https://www.reddit.com/r/LeBlancMains/comments/5dvyif/new_leblanc_skill_order_including_pro_orders/

pro players are managing just fine.

dakota saturnNov 20, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chairman Rock,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7whUzdxZ,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2016-11-20T17:11:37.819+0000)

No it's not an undisputable fact. An undisputable fact is everyone does bad at least once and there's nothing they can do. IT HAPPENS. But his scores recently are insane.

And don't give me this real world condescending bullshit. LB has always been balanced around pro players, not Plat 5s and below like you. And look

https://www.reddit.com/r/LeBlancMains/comments/5dvyif/new_leblanc_skill_order_including_pro_orders/

pro players are managing just fine.

Undisputable facts are statistics. If LB's winrate drops like a rock after 25 minutes, it's not just a few people having bad games with her; it's the champion having issues doing their intended job. And if she WERE balanced around pro players, she would have been BUFFED because she's had a sub-par winrate for a long time. The changes were done just to cater to whiney ADC mains who couldn't be bothered to ward or make any effort to not die to her.

And again you post stupid links that detract from your argument - look at all those players with 33% winrate.. 40% winrate.. ZERO % WINRATE. Ok, so Faker had 3 games on new LB that he won, who cares its faker, he'd get those stats on AP Riven. I'm also seeing a lot of so-called pro players that struggle with her. And even besides that, that is an EXTREMELY small sample size - maybe 20 games max.

If you want to go off scores, then sure - my scores have been excellent with her too. I haven't lost lane, I've had extremely high CS, and have never gone negative. That doesn't mean the champion isn't complete garbage - if anything, it's even more testament to how broken she is, not only that her early game is toxic and busted, but it also shows that someone THAT fed, and THAT farmed can't do anything late game because of the mechanics of her retarded passive.

Nik NikersonNov 20, 20162 votes

Statistics are facts, but statistics need to be interpreted. Without deeper context statistics are just numbers.

People with a 33% win rate can be attributed to players that aren't able, or aren't willing, to adjust to a new play style; as well as new players unable to deal with such a mechanically complex champion. I'm friends with a Leblanc one trick, and he's adjusted and is working his way back up to where he was with her before. So clearly its not every single player that's struggling immensely with her.

It takes adjustment. You can't do the things you did with her before, and you have to play accordingly. That being said, she may need some buffs, but that hardly means that all the changes made to her need to be reverted.

dakota saturnNov 20, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nik Nikerson,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7whUzdxZ,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-20T17:48:36.360+0000)

Statistics are facts, but statistics need to be interpreted. Without deeper context statistics are just numbers.

People with a 33% win rate can be attributed to players that aren't able, or aren't willing, to adjust to a new play style; as well as new players unable to deal with such a mechanically complex champion. I'm friends with a Leblanc one trick, and he's adjusted and is working his way back up to where he was with her before. So clearly its not every single player that's struggling immensely with her.

It takes adjustment. You can't do the things you did with her before, and you have to play accordingly. That being said, she may need some buffs, but that hardly means that all the changes made to her need to be reverted.

Regardless of numbers buffs - what exactly is her role now? What do you think she is supposed to do in teamfights? Because all I've read people say is you act as a chainbot for your ADC and try to W on the front line. Trying to do anything to their ADC or APC is suicide, essentially.

Meanwhile, the enemy team has a champion that isn't complete garbage and doesn't have to act as a glorified support champion, and can not only nuke down the front line, but also one shot the ADC with ease if they catch them out of position. Something LeBlanc can no longer do no matter how fed she is.

WarlockLawNov 20, 20162 votes

The winrate statistic is an undisputable fact. Her being nerfed is an undisputable fact.

You say indisputable, but I use chamion.gg and her overall winrate has gone up since the last patch (48.14% on 6.21 vs 48.94% now). To me this looks like she was buffed, at the very least buffed for high level play.

Now this is entirely anecdotal, but I have done far better on this version of LeBlanc than her previous version. I'm better at her now than when she had a silence. I feel that the issue most people are having is her changed playstyle. LeBlanc is no longer about insta-deleting her target. She has to mark her target with her passive before going in for the kill, and her best ability later on is her tether.

dakota saturnNov 20, 20162 votes

{quoted}

You say indisputable, but I use chamion.gg and her overall winrate has gone up since the last patch (48.14% on 6.21 vs 48.94% now). To me this looks like she was buffed, at the very least buffed for high level play.

Now this is entirely anecdotal, but I have done far better on this version of LeBlanc than her previous version. I'm better at her now than when she had a silence. I feel that the issue most people are having is her changed playstyle. LeBlanc is no longer about insta-deleting her target. She has to mark her target with her passive before going in for the kill, and her best ability later on is her tether.

Yes, I agree with you about doing better on her - for the first 30 minutes, she is fun, she is strong, and she can do a lot to affect the game. However, the winrate you quoted counts where the VAST majority of wins with her are the enemy FF'ing at 20 because they don't understand how her kit works. If you don't count all the FF20 wins, she is a much weaker champion than she was. Undisputably. And in a ranked or competitive environment, I guarantee games won't end at 25 minutes once people actually bother to read the patch notes and do some research.

https://s13.postimg.org/4aotk5m1z/lbwins.png

Her overall winrate is skewed because of her high winrate before 25 minutes. If you don't know how the champion works, you're going to see her snowball and get very fed in the early game, but you won't have the knowledge that she's less than useless later. As time goes on, and people realize how weak she is late game, I can all but guarantee that her winrate will plummet as people realize if they don't FF20 it's basically a free win as the game slowly becomes 4v5 for LB's team.

Even beyond this, half of her kit is broken - her clones are completely worthless, and her RR has the worst AI in the entire game. It doesn't fill its intended purpose as a decoy since nobody is fooled by it. It works as a skillshot blocker and Cait Ult interceptor, and trying to use it to actually deceive someone will just bring frustration as it decides to dance in a circle rather than run towards the champion 5 feet away.

WarlockLawNov 21, 20161 votes

I haven't had any of the mid/late game issues she is supposed to have. Most of my games I'm comfortably far enough ahead to end a game before the adc can kill me in 1.5 seconds. I also think that late game she can do a decent job of peeling tanks/juggernauts/divers off of your carry with 2 snares and a significant damage (assuming Void Staff). Against other fed champions she doesn't do too great for the most part, but if they aren't focusing you or you can outplay/outskirmish them she can still kill most champions with similar gold that have skillshots or are melee.

As for her RR, I really only use it when I roam during laning phase. I'll send my clone to one side lane, and go to the other. Outside of that I only use it as a blue trinket or to attempt to burn long cooldowns.

dakota saturnNov 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I haven't had any of the mid/late game issues she is supposed to have. Most of my games I'm comfortably far enough ahead to end a game before the adc can kill me in 1.5 seconds. I also think that late game she can do a decent job of peeling tanks/juggernauts/divers off of your carry with 2 snares and a significant damage (assuming Void Staff). Against other fed champions she doesn't do too great for the most part, but if they aren't focusing you or you can outplay/outskirmish them she can still kill most champions with similar gold that have skillshots or are melee.

As for her RR, I really only use it when I roam during laning phase. I'll send my clone to one side lane, and go to the other. Outside of that I only use it as a blue trinket or to attempt to burn long cooldowns.

You are aware that she will almost certainly see early game nerfs, correct? Her early game is beyond toxic right now, and I'm honestly surprised she hasn't been hotfixed yet for how oppressive she is before 25 minutes.

But god forbid you get camped by enemy Lee jungle or the enemy outplays you and stops your snowball - you will be completely useless all game with zero chance of coming back. Old LB could at least get picks, this one, nope.