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Mages should have a complete item overhaul

Namazu Ebisu··14 votes·1,646 views

I feel like every single role in the game has so much choice in their itemization but playing mage feels clunky and repetitive like ADC's were before the update.

You want burst ? item 3089 or item 3285 You want tankiness ? item 3157 or item 3001 You want sustain ? item 3152 or item 3145 (WHO BUILDS THAT ANYWAY EXPECT Vladimir OR Swain )

And i don't wanna build support items for some bonuses and lose my burst. Why don't we have more options as mages to be safe or burst to make things even more rewarding when it succeeds ? Like the new assassin item that has a huge cooldown but gives you a satisfating kill if you manage it well.

And really, spellvamp needs a total rework because out of 130 champions only maybe 5 or 10 if them uses spellvamp while lifesteal is a major part of the game.

Why can't i sustain as a Mage anyway ? While ADC's can come and destroy me in two shots and then regen their whole health in some autos back in the jungle, i should just back and waste my time ?

35 Comments

Penns8 votes

Bruh have u seen adc itemisation?

https://i.gyazo.com/af0655f8860ba2b7b04ebd31daaec88f.png https://i.gyazo.com/0eb10e7d2e9adb72712a8985d897e999.png https://i.gyazo.com/c00d0971c8d33ba38bac047b3011cd36.png https://i.gyazo.com/6c0b25443723859cbc32760b97251fd8.png https://i.gyazo.com/68cd50545e0b4efa9f5b19bd1f3e40ba.png https://i.gyazo.com/7df80c6ec39fedd0099e9e99ac00ba9a.png https://i.gyazo.com/a31331ac66ab09d3c8106ed4bbc0b28e.png https://i.gyazo.com/3dfa421150a68d1dcc1b95915e14f61a.png https://i.gyazo.com/8ab47a30631c20840ac397e0f39c49f1.png https://i.gyazo.com/da3568dce7263bd2497941d5e2b4f923.png lmao

Civil Dawn1 votes

{quoted}

Bruh have u seen adc itemisation?

https://i.gyazo.com/af0655f8860ba2b7b04ebd31daaec88f.png https://i.gyazo.com/0eb10e7d2e9adb72712a8985d897e999.png https://i.gyazo.com/c00d0971c8d33ba38bac047b3011cd36.png https://i.gyazo.com/6c0b25443723859cbc32760b97251fd8.png https://i.gyazo.com/68cd50545e0b4efa9f5b19bd1f3e40ba.png https://i.gyazo.com/7df80c6ec39fedd0099e9e99ac00ba9a.png https://i.gyazo.com/a31331ac66ab09d3c8106ed4bbc0b28e.png https://i.gyazo.com/3dfa421150a68d1dcc1b95915e14f61a.png https://i.gyazo.com/8ab47a30631c20840ac397e0f39c49f1.png https://i.gyazo.com/da3568dce7263bd2497941d5e2b4f923.png lmao

To be honest, this true. I've been picking up new ADCs recently, so I've been using popular builds to get me started, and this is like ALL I've seen. Both mages and adcs need item adjustments. Supports could use another item or two as well, since it usually comes down to item 3190 item 3222 item 3050 [excluding the 3 starter choices] and maybe item 3110 item 3060.... More items like item 3504item 3222 item 3190 would be nice because they're great for specific situations but not OP. For example, item 3504 would be great for a Janna supporting a fed Vayne and Azir. We also need more armor options, especially for mages. Right now, it's just item 3157, while for MR people regularly build item 3001item 3139 item 3140 item 3065 item 3222 item 3190 item 3102 item 3174 item 3156 ..... Why do you think AD champions are so strong in Mid right now? It's because building Zhonya's hinders your damage and overall usefulness for the majority of the early game, but if you don't build THAT specific item, you're taking a huge risk. Especially since it's practically essential VS Talon or Zed. For ADC, it's just really boring. The items aren't really unfair from what I've seen, just really meta. At least on Supports/Fighters/Tanks you usually have some personal options where you won't be totally useless if you don't run 5 out of 6 of the meta items.

Penns1 votes

Well there is only really 1 good AD/MR item as well and mages like Lux, Ahri and TF are still really good mid, probably better than AD assassins. Its the same for them, if they go Hexdrinker first, they lose a lot of damage and armor pen, but if they dont theyre taking a huge risk as well.

LankPants3 votes

Its the same for them, if they go Hexdrinker first, they lose a lot of damage and armor pen, but if they dont theyre taking a huge risk as well.

An AD mid losses 0 AD for taking Hexdrinker first over Serrated Dirk. The only real difference between the two is the survivability VS the pen. More to the point it's a choice. It's feasible for an AD Assassin to go Hex or Dirk without just auto losing the lane.

If you build any item other than Seekers on a mage into an AD Assassin you will lose lane. You can expect to die to the Assassin's all-in burst. There is no option to build more offensively on a mage.

Penns1 votes

It costs more tho and if you go for Maw over Youmus you lose a lot of stats + the active.

Apart from that, assassins are supposed to kill long range mages and other squishy carries. This is the case in pretty much any serious game, mages should be happy to at least get such a broken active with Zhonyas lol

Civil Dawn1 votes

{quoted}

Well there is only really 1 good AD/MR item as well and mages like Lux, Ahri and TF are still really good mid, probably better than AD assassins. Its the same for them, if they go Hexdrinker first, they lose a lot of damage and armor pen, but if they dont theyre taking a huge risk as well.

Yeah, it's taking away some fun either way because if I'm going to pick Ahri or any other assassin/bursty mage to play, I want to be able to do damage lol. Building Zhonya's on Ahri seems like such a chore for me. I'm not sure why :(

LankPants1 votes

ADCs have a single set of itemisation for the most part because they mostly have a single role. You pick an ADC because you need a source of sustained damage, this is the role most ADCs fill. Because of this they all tend to build towards sustained damage and items like IE and Zeal reign supreme since they have the best sustained damage.

On ADCs who don't prioritise sustained damage you tend to see different builds. Champs like Graves, Corki and Ez build differently because they fill a different role to standard ADCs.

Penns1 votes

Thats true but I actually took the 4th build from Graves lol http://champion.gg/champion/Graves/ADC

LankPants1 votes

You took it from Graves bot, which represents only 1/4 of Graves play. Graves is still an ADC regardless of where he plays, this makes his most common build item 1412 item 3009 item 3142 item 3053 item 3156 item 3036 and his highest winrate build item 3142 item 3009 item 3053 item 3156 item 3072 item 3036

Penns1 votes

Yeah but in that case Graves isnt even an "adc" anymore anyway, more like a ranged bruiser.

LankPants1 votes

When you play Corki or Blue Ez they're more spellcasting AD mages than ADCs.

This isn't really a very good argument because the class isn't very well defined.

Look at it this way as well, Vlad is still primarily a mage, just one who builds tanky. I think Graves is more or less just the ADC version of this.

MissMikasa4 votes

They took out the Spell Vamp in item 3152 and item 3146 and gave it the stupid 15% healing from all abilities crap. So you can't even stack it as they both had the passive. When before this happened they both at +20% SV in their stats but different passives so you could stack it.

Good-bye SV stacking Morgana. That was my favorite way to build her and now I just have to go burst because of this.

And I totally agree with everything you say.

Meep Man4 votes

They both stack... and you couldnt stack it before because Spell Vamp was a unique passive.

MissMikasa1 votes

Well it stacked somehow before, at least from what I remember. So it does stack now? Huh...

Civil Dawn1 votes

{quoted}

They took out the Spell Vamp in item 3152 and item 3146 and gave it the stupid 15% healing from all abilities crap. So you can't even stack it as they both had the passive. When before this happened they both at +20% SV in their stats but different passives so you could stack it.

Good-bye SV stacking Morgana. That was my favorite way to build her and now I just have to go burst because of this.

And I totally agree with everything you say.

Yeah, SV stacking would be cool on Morgana. I'm sad I never got to try that :(

Abyssphere3 votes

I feel like you are underestimating how much a mage can do with their items. I play mages almost exclusively but really, you're not going to get a good view of a class's itemisation by listing six items (one of which is a component item to another one which mages just don't build...). You left out items like item 3116 and item 3151 that are actually interesting,

Paladin 0f Life1 votes

{quoted}

I feel like you are underestimating how much a mage can do with their items. I play mages almost exclusively but really, you're not going to get a good view of a class's itemisation by listing six items (one of which is a component item to another one which mages just don't build...). You left out items like item 3116 and item 3151 that are actually interesting,

Morel lo too. But still you can't deny that mages lack build diversity over tires favored ADCS and easy auto champs

XeroKimo2 votes

I really wish they can make Liandry's work well with mages that doesn't use DoTs, whenever I play any mages that doesn't use DoTs makes it look like Liandry's deals no damage, and I don't like it since the counterpart for AD's Bortk, works with practically anybody auto reliant, while Liandry's it's like Brand, Rumble, Malzahar or something

SH Azykan1 votes

it gives 80 ap and 15 magic pen, not even accounting for the passive it actually gives significant damage, especially vs squishies

XeroKimo1 votes

True, but wasn't liandry's was aimed to be an anti tank item for mages to buy? So why all the changes to make it more effective against squishies and a small amount of ap champs?

Abyssphere1 votes

{quoted}

True, but wasn't liandry's was aimed to be an anti tank item for mages to buy? So why all the changes to make it more effective against squishies and a small amount of ap champs?

According to Riot the item is designed to kill people who are stacking HP but not a lot of MR, so it seems like it's supposed to be stronger against squishies building a bit of health and bruisers (particularly juggernauts) than it is against full on tanks. Against tanks I think the item is just designed to force them into buying an MR item to not die to the mage.

legionnaire992 votes

Fiddlesticks item 3152 item 3146 THIS IS EVIL THIS SHOULD NOT WORK BUT IT SO FUN TO JUMP IN AND GET full health with that ult who needsitem 3157

Erockandroll1 votes

{quoted}

Fiddlesticks item 3152 item 3146 THIS IS EVIL THIS SHOULD NOT WORK BUT IT SO FUN TO JUMP IN AND GET full health with that ult who needsitem 3157

I was wondering if I was the only one who noticed this. Now that they changed the passives to both those items. They now stack.

MissMikasa1 votes

I'm not sure of that. The healing is the same but the passives are worded differently. It doesn't say though that they don't stack.

Vistha Kai1 votes

They should. Those aren't named passives, just uniques for the sake of not stacking copies of the same item.

AMYS GRAVE1 votes

Swain That's my trick.

Shadow Hazard1 votes

I did not know those stack. That is something i will have to think about with future AP build plans.

GreenLore2 votes

I actually think that mages have one of the more diverse item pools,because the different AP-items tend to do different things. You need more mana?item 3027 item 3174 item 3040 are all options,but most of the time you will only need one of them. You need more damage?item 3089 is good if you have high AP scalings,item 3285 is good if you want more burst You want to prevent enemies from healing?item 3165 is there You are up against heavy MR?item 3001 and item 3151 are options(liandrys is also good if you have a DoT-mage) You want more healing?item 3152 and item 3146 are possibilities(though gunblade is more for hybrid champs than mages) You want CC?item 3116 is your man You want to avoid damage?item 3157 and to some extent the aformentioned item 3001 You want improved auto attacks?item 3100

There doesn't need to be a tons of options for everything you want,but there are a lot of options in general.

Meanwhile AD-assassins basically have to use the leftovers from the ADC-items and some of the juggernaut-items.It doesn't really feel like they have their own itemization(of course AP assassins have this problem as well,but the mage items are almost all good on them as well,so its not much of a problem here)

Anyway mages are getting a class wide update this year similar to the adc and juggernaut updates,so I guess their itemization will improve as well.

MazeMangler1 votes

I dont know, a 20% cdr ap item without manaregen attached to it would be enough for the time being. (Reverting the AP itemisation nerfs from preseason would be too much i guess...).

DeathBurst1 votes

Good thing there is an item pass scheduled for the Mage Roster Update...

morris11 votes

I think it comes down to overall choices. I enjoy that with the marksman overhaul the single best crit item has been split between item 3031 and item 3508, both having the same prices, similar build paths and stats, but each being chosen based on the champion. I think mage items should need a "second" Rabadon, something that can coincide with this, or that adds more diversity to core powerspikes.

PSA: Same thing applies to item 3036 item 3033 diversity, though item 3036 is picked more frequently across the board.

Catastrop1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moraru Maurice,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7dbeRj7t,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-02-04T18:53:47.718+0000)

should need a "second" Rabadon

This used to be Zhonya's. Now it's more defensive than anything.

Abyssphere1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moraru Maurice,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7dbeRj7t,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-02-04T18:53:47.718+0000)

I think it comes down to overall choices. I enjoy that with the marksman overhaul the single best crit item has been split between item 3031 and item 3508, both having the same prices, similar build paths and stats, but each being chosen based on the champion. I think mage items should need a "second" Rabadon, something that can coincide with this, or that adds more diversity to core powerspikes.

PSA: Same thing applies to item 3036 item 3033 diversity, though item 3036 is picked more frequently across the board.

The mage equivalent is item 3165 vs item 3174, but unfortunately Riot have basically never been able to make it so that both of those items are viable at the same time. Right now you basically always get Morello unless you have severe mana problems, while in the past you'd always get Grail unless you didn't use mana.

It could be somewhat interesting to see a Deathcap competitor but I'm not sure what you can really make to compete with + 35% AP.

Meep Man1 votes

I just feel like Mages need more items for certain stats like CDR and such. If you dont synergize well with Athene's or Morrelo's which are very similar items, you basically aren't going to get 40% CDR.

Civil Dawn1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7dbeRj7t,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2016-02-04T20:01:54.806+0000)

I just feel like Mages need more items for certain stats like CDR and such. If you dont synergize well with Athene's or Morrelo's which are very similar items, you basically aren't going to get 40% CDR.

I love your Starbound picture! Novas [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

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