Should Morde be reverted?

dakota saturn·Nov 22, 2016·4 votes·456 views

After his disastrous remake, I haven't really seen anyone talk about him. I haven't seen him in any games at all in months, when he used to be fairly popular before the rework.

downvotes

24 Comments

Sightless66Nov 22, 20162 votes

when he used to be fairly popular before the rework.

Eh..... that's being generous. As I remember it, he was pretty much always sitting between bottom 20 and bottom 10 pickrate, and sometimes went lower. He wasn't higher than that since season 2. That's not really popular.

More importantly, old Morde had huge design problems. Whenever he was any kind of strong, he turned into bullshit that you simply couldn't trade against because he had instant damage and shielding that you couldn't really respond to anyway than "have bigger numbers" or "never be in range of him".

That's not to say the new Morde is well-designed. He has his issues. I just can't behind saying that the old Morde was well designed either.

dakota saturnNov 22, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Eh..... that's being generous. As I remember it, he was pretty much always sitting between bottom 20 and bottom 10 pickrate, and sometimes went lower. He wasn't higher than that since season 2. That's not really popular.

More importantly, old Morde had huge design problems. Whenever he was any kind of strong, he turned into bullshit that you simply couldn't trade against because he had instant damage and shielding that you couldn't really respond to anyway than "have bigger numbers" or "never be in range of him".

That's not to say the new Morde is well-designed. He has his issues. I just can't behind saying that the old Morde was well designed either.

Yeah, he had problems, but I honestly don't remember that many complaints about him. It was a different time, when there were all other kinds of OP. Morde has zero mobility, zero CC, and zero sustain until he got Spellvamp. He also had lower range than Annie so it was hard for him to stick on targets. But he certainly had a dedicated playerbase and I do remember seeing him quite often in mid. Easily as often as champs like Lissandra and Lux are picked now.

He did require strategy in lane - stand off to the side so he has to pick between E'ing you or E'ing the minions, and it was possible to shut him down early, same as Mundo, Galio, and other champs who become too tanky later on to deal with.

Idk, I just really hate when they completely delete champs who have a dedicated playerbase and replace them with trash and then refuse to listen to the playerbase when we say that we don't want it. Not everyone agrees with Riot's direction in design philosophies (i.e. the meta as of now is that everyone's job is to feed the ADC and everything else is second to that).

Sightless66Nov 22, 20161 votes

I honestly don't remember that many complaints about him

Well, he's not complained about for the same reason Yorick, Poppy, and Urgot weren't complained about: They were almost never played, and they were considered shit by the general league population. Why complain about something no one ever touches?

I do remember the last time old Morde was really considered strong. I remember back in season 1, before his trading got nerfed and when sustain items were good. I remember how hated this champion was. I remember how much people demanded he get Eve'd back before being Eve'd was even a thing. He was despised as much as any midlaner at the time, even though he wasn't the strongest by any means.

Morde has zero mobility, zero CC, and zero sustain until he got Spellvamp.

Sure, but he had an instant damaging cone that was effectively impossible to dodge, outdamaged anything you did, and gave him too much of a shield to trade back on. That's kind of annoying.

He did require strategy in lane - stand off to the side so he has to pick between E'ing you or E'ing the minions, and it was possible to shut him down early

Everyone requires strategy. Everyone can be shut down early. Not everyone turns into a pure numbers game whenever they're even slightly ahead, but that's exactly what Morde did. If he won trades against you just by hitting you with the unmissable E even when you weren't standing in minions to give him a bigger shield, and if he also outpushed you because its cooldown was negligable, then you ran out of options. Morde deprived you of options more readily than almost anyone else. That's a problem.

Easily as often as champs like Lissandra and Lux are picked now.

I'm sorry, but numerically, you're not correct. His pickrate for more than a year before his rework was about 2%. In a time when there were fewer champions, that's all he had. For the record, Lux's popularity is about 12%, Lissandra is experiencing an all-time low of 2.4%, and Morde's current popularity is 1.8%. So, in a time when there are more champions, Morde has almost the same popularity.

Seriously, he's almost as played now as he was back then. That should say something. He still has a dedicated playerbase. Out of all the champions who go top lane, he has the ninth highest average games per champion. That's pretty good. Are you going to screw over that playerbase by changing the champion away from something they're enjoying? Is appealing to the old playerbase worth dicking over the new one?

the meta as of now is that everyone's job is to feed the ADC and everything else is second to that

Eh, not in higher level play. You kind of want the ADC to be fed, but it's generally better to have the mid and jungler get fed so they can carry throughout the midgame (this is made much easier by the weakening of early teamwide defensive options like Aegis). Getting the AD carry fed at their expense is begging to have all your hard work shut down because being fed doesn't do enough to help them survive a burst combo, and with the decreased power of armor penetration options, going for a midgame carry role isn't very effective.

JedenVojakNov 22, 20161 votes

Mordekaiser was fun back before the rework. I would liken the experience to when you were a kid with your toy dinosaur smashing through a block city... just like RAWR SMAAASH!

His cone of pain was not somehow more powerful than spells from most midlaners, and the counterplay to him was always the same - he's really strong in the solo lane, but when he gets ganked he gets destroyed. Why is that? Because he's an immobile champion with no CC, so when he gets caught out he has no escape options and can't maintain his shield.

Also, as far as Morde pushing, he always pushed no matter what. This is not a universally good thing; again on a immobile CCless champ, he has no egress if caught out or low after a fight, and this hurt him as much as it helped.

{quoted}

Are you going to screw over that playerbase by changing the champion away from something they're enjoying? Is appealing to the old playerbase worth dicking over the new one?

Yes because they're the same people, and old Mordekaiser was much more fun than the new completely neutered one: he had better shields, was faster, had a larger targeting range which translated into more damage overall, and was not completely dependent on other people to make his kit work.

New Morde is a gimp, plain and simple.

Sightless66Nov 22, 20161 votes

His cone of pain was not somehow more powerful than spells from most midlaners,

No, it wasn't, because he got nerfed to hell and back and his items got destroyed. He was weak, and I'm aware of that. However, it was very low on counterplay, which meant that whenever he was doing well. That's what necessitated him being weak.

he's really strong in the solo lane, but when he gets ganked he gets destroyed

Sure, but this often turned into his only real form of counterplay whenever he was even slightly ahead. Can you fight him? No, there's nothing to possibly outplay. Can you push? No, he's the best at that. So, what do you do? Give up any chance of interacting with him in a 1v1. This was more of a problem with Morde than with almost any other champion in the game.

The same thing often happened in the other direction whenever Morde was behind, because he had no ways to outfight people if he couldn't pump out the raw damage and shields.

Yes because they're the same people,

I doubt that. He fell to the bottom 5 pickrates after his rework. His playrate has almost quadrupled since then. I don't find the idea that it was just old players returning to him instead of new players coming in and trying him to be a very likely explanation.

JedenVojakNov 22, 20161 votes

{quoted}

No, it wasn't, because he got nerfed to hell and back and his items got destroyed. He was weak, and I'm aware of that. However, it was very low on counterplay, which meant that whenever he was doing well. That's what necessitated him being weak.

Counterplay is irrelevant, you have an entire class built around 0 counterplay, manaless, self-healing, sustained damage. The fact that it's on a spell and has a cooldown doesn't somehow make it less fair than auto attacks. The counter is the same in this case, build resistances.

Sure, but this often turned into his only real form of counterplay whenever he was even slightly ahead. Can you fight him? No, there's nothing to possibly outplay. Can you push? No, he's the best at that. So, what do you do? Give up any chance of interacting with him in a 1v1. This was more of a problem with Morde than with almost any other champion in the game.

That's fine. Not every champion should be outplayable, otherwise you get untouchable champions who bounce all over the place and kill you without you being able to do anything until they get nerfed to the ground (lookin' at you Kalista ).

The same thing often happened in the other direction whenever Morde was behind, because he had no ways to outfight people if he couldn't pump out the raw damage and shields.

Yes, this is him as a high variance champion.

Riot commented much the same in regards to Shyvana : it's okay for her to have games where she runs around and eats all the people since there are also games where she accomplishes bupcus.

I doubt that. He fell to the bottom 5 pickrates after his rework. His playrate has almost quadrupled since then. I don't find the idea that it was just old players returning to him instead of new players coming in and trying him to be a very likely explanation.

His playrate shot up because he got more solo-laning power in his kit bringing back people who were disgusted with the rework, and because people who tried him when they tried to make him a bot lane carry liked him and kept playing him.

If they reverted him to his much funner state, those people would be even happier.

AhristocatsNov 22, 20162 votes

i have fun with morde

i wish they buff him back in duo lane, while deleting the xp passive. His W used to be overpowered and nerfed because of that shit.

MordepoolNov 22, 20161 votes

There exists no itemization to support a reverted Mordekaiser

dakota saturnNov 22, 20161 votes

{quoted}

There exists no itemization to support a reworked Mordekaiser

There's Rylai's.. and.. hmm.

So I'm guessing you support reverting? TBH I only played vs morde, never as him - I never thought he was unbalanced, he had clear weaknesses and if you abused his early game, you could dominate him in lane. But he also had ways to remain relevant later on.

I kinda miss him tbh.. rather him than Syndra, Yasuo, and Zed every single game.

MordepoolNov 22, 20161 votes

Rylais is on the verge of getting axed. Morde used to roll spell vamp guess what doesn't exist anymore

Jon1174Nov 22, 20161 votes

I like the new Morde TBH but thats just me

MordepoolNov 22, 20161 votes

I want A Rework from a Sane emotionally invested Designer not some hack experimenting

dakota saturnNov 22, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I want A Rework from a Sane emotionally invested Designer not some hack experimenting

I find it kind of amusing that the same guy who did the Morde rework was also responsible for Darius, Kalista, and Yasuo - all champions deemed ungodly toxic and frustrating by the playerbase. One was completely redone, one had her knees broken because she was so oppressive, and the last one... yeah I'll let you figure that one out.

All of his champions and reworks are failures. Just.. why?

Big LincolnNov 22, 20161 votes

yes

he was infinitely more fun and unique as a mage imo

MordepoolNov 22, 20161 votes

I'd like to see him as a Juggernaut/ BattleMage since ya know that's what he is maybe give him something to stop all the flashy play champions like grounded

LadyRenlyNov 22, 20161 votes

this morde isnt half bad

JedenVojakNov 22, 20161 votes

The answer is yes and hell yes.

I would reinstall the game if they actually did that.

SukishooNov 22, 20161 votes

The word you're looking for is deleted [slayer-jinx-wink]

CalabokNov 22, 20161 votes

its ok, there are 100+ other champs to pick.

who cares about that walking tin can?

dakota saturnNov 22, 20161 votes

{quoted}

its ok, there are 100+ other champs to pick.

who cares about that walking tin can?

A lot of people only play one or a few champions. There were quite a few Morde onetricks/mains that quit because of the rework. If you have a champion that just 'clicks' with you, it really sucks to have them essentially deleted from the game.

Sir FuzziNov 22, 20161 votes

Just needs a better scope on his identity. There are tons of fleshy champs more 'iron' than him and he's counter-playable as all hell; the poor son of a bitch doesn't even have a latent slow. He has a speed up, if he's walking toward his W's other target, if there is indeed one.

Even his ultimate damage is halved over time and immediate, making it plenty easy to counter with a variety of things.

He just feels antique. No other champion is quite as lacking in resources-- even if the Kaiser of Morde can make it 4v6, he's gotta work for that meal and he gets an AA bot-- which doesn't do him much good against fellow APs (though they will amp his AP).

I think he just needs to be made a bit more concurrent with design philosophies. I can't think of any other champion who has fewer resources. His shield's the best he's got and after that, he had better be killing things very, very hard.

Critmaster GarenNov 22, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=dakota saturn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7bn0yG6a,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-11-22T02:22:04.499+0000)

when he used to be fairly popular before the rework.

he really wasnt. you havent seen him in games AT ALL.

dakota saturnNov 22, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7bn0yG6a,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2016-11-22T06:07:40.840+0000)

he really wasnt. you havent seen him in games AT ALL.

When I played ranked in seasons 1-3, I saw him at least once every 10 games. I am a LeBlanc main so I'd get counterpicked by him all the time. I actually loved seeing him because Morde had zero kill potential on LB, and zero roam potential even if he shoved me to tower, and it meant they didn't pick something that was actually threatening, like Cho or pre-rework Sion (UGH FUCK THIS CHAMPION). Since the rework and nerfs that took him out of bot lane, I literally haven't seen him at ALL. Not even once. I've played thousands of games since his rework, and not even ONE game have I seen him. I don't even know what his kit does anymore - I'd have to pull up wiki if he actually showed up in a game.

Why would anyone pick him unless they are a main/onetrick? What is his niche? Who does he counter?

Critmaster GarenNov 22, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=dakota saturn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7bn0yG6a,comment-id=000d0000,timestamp=2016-11-22T06:11:04.884+0000)

When I played ranked in seasons 1-3, I saw him at least once every 10 games. I am a LeBlanc main so I'd get counterpicked by him all the time. I actually loved seeing him because Morde had zero kill potential on LB, and it meant they didn't pick something that was actually threatening, like Cho or pre-rework Sion (UGH FUCK THIS CHAMPION). Since the rework and nerfs that took him out of bot lane, I literally haven't seen him at ALL. Not even once. I don't even know what his kit does anymore - I'd have to pull up wiki if he actually showed up in a game.

Why would anyone pick him unless they are a main/onetrick? What is his niche? Who does he counter?

ok, in seson 1 - 3 maybe, but prior to his rework, he was nowhere to be seen for pretty much 2 years.