Poppy: Courage vs. Grasp?

Oglaf·Nov 16, 2016·3 votes·3,628 views

Seems like she'd have a very easy time triggering it whenever she wants, no?

44 Comments

EVG MikeNov 16, 20163 votes

Grasp is better on poppy, you can only proc collosus once per 30 seconds, you can proc grasp every 4 seconds. Grasp benefits poppy 10x more than collosus.

Edit: I made my assessment based on assumptions that it would be a balanced mastery, it is not. The range on colossus is 5x what it should be, which results in 5-man procs almost every teamfight. That being said, colossus is definitely the way to go until they patch it.

Tychusfindlay919Nov 16, 20166 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mike 2017,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7bBmzJjE,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-11-16T16:11:30.530+0000)

Grasp is better on poppy, you can only proc collosus once per 30 seconds, you can proc grasp every 4 seconds. Grasp benefits poppy 10x more than collosus.

That is such a shitty evaluation that leaves so much important info out.

RalanrNov 16, 20161 votes

I'd say grasp is better for lane because sustain. In the jungle, Courage is better.

Tychusfindlay919Nov 16, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I'd say grasp is better for lane because sustain. In the jungle, Courage is better.

Until you face someone like riven or renekton where you need an on demand big shield every once in a while before you get fucked out of your mind.

RalanrNov 16, 20161 votes

Or just farm under tower because they bully you under it.

Tychusfindlay919Nov 16, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Or just farm under tower because they bully you under it.

Try that shit on me and Ill freeze the wave.

RalanrNov 16, 20161 votes

Not if I freeze lane at my tower first.

Tychusfindlay919Nov 16, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Not if I freeze lane at my tower first.

Push wave directly on to your tower. Lane resets afterwards (your tower shoots things ya know).

Conduct wave freeze.

OglafNov 16, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Try that shit on me and Ill freeze the wave.

{quoted}

Not if I freeze lane at my tower first.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRH-Ywpz1_I

EndlessSorcererNov 16, 20162 votes

Courage of the Colossus is probably the best option this patch.

We will see if it gets nerfs in the next couple patches.

Tychusfindlay919Nov 16, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Courage of the Colossus is probably the best option this patch.

We will see if it gets nerfs in the next couple patches.

If it gets nerfed without anything ranged getting nerfed as well Im quitting and moving to fallout 4 full time. The one time melees get something good and it gets fucked will be the last straw.

RalanrNov 16, 20161 votes

Why would range be nerfed because of Courage? I can't see the correlation.

Tychusfindlay919Nov 16, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Why would range be nerfed because of Courage? I can't see the correlation.

If courage gets nerfed for whatever reason I want something that ranged uses to abuse melees nerfed. That is a bare minimum. As it stands right now, even with current CoC specs, ranged needs to be hit top lane somehow.

I want any nerfs to CoC to be in conjuction with nerfs to ranged-favored masteries (but im fine with nerfs to range kits or ranged favored items too).

RalanrNov 16, 20161 votes

Dude, I hate ranger champions too, but you're being ridiculous.

Tychusfindlay919Nov 16, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Dude, I hate ranger champions too, but you're being ridiculous.

Maybe, but unless this is a smurf of yours, you dont seem to be in any position to arbitrate on this issue with me.

RalanrNov 16, 20161 votes

So because I'm unranked I can't argue that X should get nerfed with Y despite having no connection?

Tychusfindlay919Nov 16, 20161 votes

{quoted}

So because I'm unranked I can't argue that X should get nerfed with Y despite having no connection?

Not necessarily, but it goes towards credibility.

One doesn't have to be a doctor to give a medical opinion, but we're all better off listening to a doctor.

The way ranged vs melee is right now, CoC is one of the few respites melees have been given to deal with ranged. Nerfing that would bring us back to square one with ranged champions absolutely shitting all over melee. The logic of nerfing CoC in conjunction with ranged nerfs would be to prevent us from going back to square one in the first place.

I'd love to make the logic clearer than that, but if you don't get it at this point then it's a waste of time.

RalanrNov 16, 20161 votes

That makes more sense. I didn't fully consider CoC being a direct counter to range.

Tychusfindlay919Nov 16, 20162 votes

{quoted}

That makes more sense. I didn't fully consider CoC being a direct counter to range.

It's not a direct counter to anything but damage. One of the biggest problems with ranged vs melee is that ranged can lay the beatdown like no freaking tomorrow between fresh blood, greenfathers gift, the strength of current ranged build paths compared to tank or damage-oriented melee build paths, and of course the most blood-seething advantage of being able to right click from 400+ units away.

CoC is that one thing that can help you soak damage and mitigate some of those disadvantages when you finally do get onto that ranged champion.

With the exception of this asshole Jayce CoC is the one item that gives melees the opportunity to actually comfortably beat a ranged champion once they finally get into melee distance (which they should, because the idea of being ranged is that you can kite, and once you get into melee forming, the melee should absolutely fucking wipe the floor with you, especially juggernauts).

kile147Nov 16, 20161 votes

I mean it's somewhat fair to say "Hey Riot melees are abusing Courage and it should probably be nerfed, but it's also one of our few defenses against ranged champs abusing other masteries. If you hit one you need to hit the other as well."

Critmaster GarenNov 16, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Courage of the Colossus is probably the best option this patch.

We will see if it gets nerfs in the next couple patches.

well that, and grasp is garbage.

Mirage SeraphNov 16, 20162 votes

I find Courage helps her stay in fights longer than Grasp, and being able to double up on shields is extremely nice against burst champs. The lack of sustain has definitely been a drawback, but taking less damage counteracts that and 3% or whatever the number is wasn't exactly reliable sustain mid-late game anyways.

... That being said, either is good, unless you really care about min maxing I feel as though which you choose depends on your play style.

OglafNov 16, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mirage Seraph,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7bBmzJjE,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-11-16T15:31:32.562+0000)

I find Courage helps her stay in fights longer than Grasp, and being able to double up on shields is extremely nice against burst champs. The lack of sustain has definitely been a drawback, but taking less damage counteracts that and 3% or whatever the number is wasn't exactly reliable sustain mid-late game anyways.

... That being said, either is good, unless you really care about min maxing I feel as though which you choose depends on your play style.

What about switching out Unyielding for Recovery to help the sustain?

Mirage SeraphNov 16, 20161 votes

{quoted}

What about switching out Unyielding for Recovery to help the sustain?

I tend to build Warmogs on Poppy so I personally wouldn't do that, but I can see that being a viable option.

SpoofghoulNov 16, 20162 votes

courage 100%

it's flat out better for survivability

grasp only gives 1,5% hp every 4 seconds 30/4=7,5 x 1,5 = 11,25 with runic armor and visage thats about 15% hp in the same time frame so as long as you can proc colossus with 2 enemies or more nearby its stronger for surviveability

Grasp will give more damage though and is probably better in lane

DREADN0UGHTNov 17, 20162 votes

Courage by far. Its just too fucking op not to be considered with no hesitation atm.

Just wait for Rito to nerf it. Its just like patch 6.01 (League of Thunderlords), don't bother going anywhere else for now.

legionnaire99Nov 16, 20161 votes

do you remember when they added keystone you ran thunderlords. yea that courage right now

RalanrNov 16, 20163 votes

Eyup. Saw a Nasus with Courage. Courage was so OP.

OglafNov 16, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Eyup. Saw a Nasus with Courage. Courage was so OP.

:/

...how would Nasus even trigger it?

EndlessSorcererNov 16, 20162 votes

That's the joke.

I think.

RalanrNov 16, 20162 votes

Bingo.

Edit: though I did see a Nasus with Courage. Reminded me of when keystones were introduced and I saw juggernauts that didn't build crit have old warlords.

Was pretty funny.

legionnaire99Nov 16, 20161 votes

yea he doesn't have common scene. but it's really op on Darius think trading with him is hard add a 300 health shield at level 2

RalanrNov 16, 20161 votes

It's more busted on Volibear IMO.

Also it was my poor attempt at a joke. Because it is in no way as universal as TLD was.

legionnaire99Nov 16, 20161 votes

Renekton ?

RalanrNov 16, 20161 votes

Another champion that can use it and is annoying. How does this counter my point that I feel it's more busted on Volibear?

RalanrNov 16, 20161 votes

Sarcasm probably isn't the right word. I was more straight up mocking the idea that Courage was as good a choice as TLD because TLD could be procced by anyone.

kile147Nov 16, 20161 votes

I think I ran into that guy too... luckily not on my team

RequiemsfireNov 16, 20161 votes

Courage of the colossus is waaay better. The shield makes it possible to initiate with an even bigger shield than before, and make small plays that off of that such as tower dives with your E.

RandomoniumNov 16, 20161 votes

http://lolalytics.com/champion/Poppy

This says it all.

OglafNov 16, 20161 votes

{quoted}

http://lolalytics.com/champion/Poppy

This says it all.

Heh those are my exact masteries for her except I prefer Tough Skin over Siegemaster.

NkeyoNov 16, 20161 votes

Courage hands down, so long as you can position to use it effectively in teamfights. Combined with Fearless and Legendary Guardian you have an all around massive tank steroid for teamfighting, and everything else I guess.

Grasp gives a shitty heal and a nice single target damage steroid, which is great to get ahead in lane, or for dueling/extended fights outside of lane, but outside of that it's useless. The heal (1.5% max hp = 60 hp heal with 4k health before modifiers) is nothing compared to the hp shield from Courage, and that hurts your ability to fulfill your role as a tank. The damage is pretty nice early, especially if you have hp scaling and/or Titanic, but with 4k health the proc will only be 120 extra damage before MR wrecks it because you have no pen, so somewhere around 60 damage per proc on a squishy with around 100 MR; which could add up if your teamfights are lasting almost a minute, and you're able to proc it consistently on the target you want through that whole time.