Yes, DFG got removed
Yes, his E isn't instant anymore
Yes, his Q is a skillshot
He still one-shots squishies and can actually interrupt dashes if he times his E correctly. Stop playing him as though his E doesn't have a delay.
He can get more farm now that his Q can hit more than one target and doesn't require a target to cast.
Abyssphere20 votesI don't think he's weak but I think he feels horrendously weak. I feel like a lot of his players think he's shit because even when he does feel he feels pretty terrible. He's so heavily focused on punishing mistakes now that he feels incapable of doing anything unless the enemy is stupid or he has a friend to help him.
VardenSalad4 votesOP will never respond to your comment. You're 100% correct. And I'll never drop the feeling that Riot put him in the dumpster because they're not competent enough to create a game where Veigar retains his kit.
PKnowledge15 votesI think we're not talking about the same Veigar.
One-shooting squishies ? You mean, the stupid APC that went 700 AP and no MR/HP ? At lvl 18, every adc has more than 1.8k HP. You would need at the very least 1.2k AP to OS them, assuming they went full damage. And did I mention that they have to be in 650 range ? Or that Zhonya totally counter it ?
Yeah, Veigar OS squishies. When he already won the game or when the target is not even using their brain.
Interrupting dashes. Let's first agree that once the opponent pushed their dash button it's too late to react with that 0.75s delay. That means that you have to land your stun before. And then there is no reason for them to dash if they see the warning. For example, you would have to push E before you're hit by Lee's Q to interrupt his dash, assuming he's going in asap. And that mean the Veigar player is supposed to predict the move, when the other one is just waiting for the warning.
It's your opponent that get to time their dash. You can only push E and hope that they will go in.
Last but not least, the farm part. Old Veigar was not farming with Q, but poking, to all in at 6. He would only farm mid-late game, when CD is low, or when there is no one to poke. That's because farming mechanics are really risky for your team. If you do nothing but farm, you have no kind of pressure over your lane. Mid is free to roam, Jungler will focus on other lanes, and your team will always be outnumbered. Yes, that would work with Nasus top, or Shyvana Jgl, because they can nearly 1V5 if you let them farm. But Veigar ? You just gank him and shut him down as soon as he overextend. That's why old Veigar players would focus more on kill pressure than farm.
Now, with nothing reliable to initiate your combo, you have no kill pressure on your lane. If the opponent want to stay alive and farm/roam, he will, nothing you can do about it without your jungler. You can't protect yourself has efficiently as before either, so pushing too far is not a good idea. And with that ratio nerf on R, you can't lose farm, so no roaming for you. The only thing you can do is farm, and wait for a mistake you can exploit.
The only reason Veigar seems to be in a good spot is because nearly no one play him, and the fact that some players think making plays with high skillcap champions is enough to win games. You can be a god with Ahri, you still deserve to lose if you build 
against Veigar.
lB2kGRlc8y3 votesOP clearly has no idea why Veigar is complained about, and has brought so many more clueless players out of the woodwork in the process of stating his uninformed opinion.
LeprechaunJinx2 votesHonestly, as a Veigar lover I don't mind the changes, they make playing the game more interesting for me.
Starting with his Q, I always disliked its old usage of just poking your enemy down a ton. I did a lot of research when I first started playing in how to play Veigar since he was one of the reasons I got into League but I was disappointed when most recommendations were to use it solely for harass and pick up farm whenever you could later. The fantasy with Veigar, at least to me, is his limitless potential of getting ridiculous amounts of AP; not harass my opponent a ton with my Q. The changes Riot made make it more interactive where I can decide how I want to use it. Do I use it primarily for farm to get a steady AP gain for late game damage? Do I focus on using it for harass do to its high missile speed? Or do I mix the two and try to fire through the minion line to pick up a point of AP and keep them from just wading in minions? Another thing is now that it can hit two targets I can actually roam now without feeling like I'm missing an opportunity for more damage as well as providing more utility for it in teamfights.
Veigar's E is now more difficult to hit, thus making his burst and harass rotations harder but I don't feel like that's a bad thing. While I am upset that I now am even more at risk of being ganked since a reactionary stun is less likely, I fully understand why it was given a delay. I played support Veigar bottom lane a ton with a friend of mine and the instant 2.5 second stun at max rank was obnoxious to say the least. It may not have just been a targeted stun but with a bit of understanding it may as well have been. It's usefulness in teamfights really hasn't been changed too much as people will still get hit by it in the chaos of abilities being used and hitting the back line with it is just as difficult as ever.
The nerf to R ratio I cannot dispute as it may have been a little much. Sorta just limits the targets you can use it on to exclusively the enemy's AP carry or another squishy.
PKnowledge2 votesStarting with his Q, I always disliked its old usage of just poking your enemy down a ton. I did a lot of research when I first started playing in how to play Veigar since he was one of the reasons I got into League but I was disappointed when most recommendations were to use it solely for harass and pick up farm whenever you could later. The fantasy with Veigar, at least to me, is his limitless potential of getting ridiculous amounts of AP; not harass my opponent a ton with my Q.
That exactly what I though first with old Veigar, so I get your point. When the new Q was announced, I was like "Finally, I can focus on farming !". But I wasn't expecting a removal of my kill potential as a trade-off.
The changes Riot made make it more interactive where I can decide how I want to use it. Do I use it primarily for farm to get a steady AP gain for late game damage? Do I focus on using it for harass do to its high missile speed? Or do I mix the two and try to fire through the minion line to pick up a point of AP and keep them from just wading in minions? Another thing is now that it can hit two targets I can actually roam now without feeling like I'm missing an opportunity for more damage as well as providing more utility for it in teamfights.
That's where I disagree. It's really hard to poke AND farm in lane. Even harassing is nearly impossible as long as the opponent stay behind his creeps. I think that there is no reason to harass with new Veigar. You usually poke to force a recall, or to all in when they're low enough. But if they recall, you will just farm more, catching up what you lost harassing. If they stay, you're still not sure to get a kill because they can avoid everything but your R, that does maybe 300 damage at 6 if you didn't farm.
As for roaming, I think that's not a good idea when you're farm-reliant and you can't 1v1 anyone. Even following the roaming enemy is dangerous if the river is not fully warded.
Veigar's E is now more difficult to hit, thus making his burst and harass rotations harder but I don't feel like that's a bad thing. While I am upset that I now am even more at risk of being ganked since a reactionary stun is less likely, I fully understand why it was given a delay. I played support Veigar bottom lane a ton with a friend of mine and the instant 2.5 second stun at max rank was obnoxious to say the least. It may not have just been a targeted stun but with a bit of understanding it may as well have been.
Yes, old stun was obnoxious, and didn't provide much counter play. But you still had a cast time, and you could itemize against it, or even "predict" it the same way OP want us to predict enemy moves when we land the new stun. Anyway, I was fine with it being nerfed. But why like that ? Tons of suggestion have been made everywhere on the boards to rework it so that you can still land W, or use it defensively. I would be fine with a reduced stun duration too, no need for 2.5s. But this delay is just too much. You can't land W any more, and you can barely save yourself once every 15s. That, and people don't get that having an enemy in the cage is still dangerous. Syndra, Viktor or Annie will delete you, trapped or not...
It's usefulness in teamfights really hasn't been changed too much as people will still get hit by it in the chaos of abilities being used and hitting the back line with it is just as difficult as ever.
It did change. Now you will get someone, but you don't know who. You're still waiting for the enemy to make a mistake. Zoning is still as great, thought.
The nerf to R ratio I cannot dispute as it may have been a little much. Sorta just limits the targets you can use it on to exclusively the enemy's AP carry or another squishy.
Because "Just farm twice as much with your new Q spell, even if there is the same number of minions as before". You can't really catch up the ratio nerf with new Q. You could farm nearly as much with the old one, it's just that it was used to poke.
Spicy Rice13 votesYes, DFG got removed
Yes, his E isn't instant anymore
Yes, his Q is a skillshot
He still one-shots squishies and can actually interrupt dashes if he times his E correctly. Stop playing him as though his E doesn't have a delay.
He can get more farm now that his Q can hit more than one target and doesn't require a target to cast.
People complain because instead of compensation, he was basically nerfed instead.
And please show me how you are going to stop a dash with a veigar e. The delay is long enough that anyone that isnt an idiot can avoid the cage
AbsoluteSadman18 votesIts called predictive play, you should try it.
Not everything is reactive.
LaceUp233 votesUhm, that's the problem. You predict where they are going to be, and then they just dash away lol.
Trundle Bundle3 votesI would have thought that the predictive play here was seeing the wall animation begin and not dashing a half second later when it finally activated. Maybe that's just me though.
Big Lincoln11 votesYou mean like when Veigar's wall was "instant" and the counterplay was to predict it?
:^)
AbsoluteSadman5 votesThat was a form, but now you have to predict where there gonna move to use the wall effectivley.
The old box was bullshit in all forms
Big Lincoln4 votesAnd now they can react to it anyway, which leads to why he feels like utter trash to play
Squidblimp3 votesActually, please try playing Veigar. A 0.5 second delay is incredibly easy to dodge. I main Veigar, and when I play against an enemy Veigar, I NEVER get stunned. Sure, sometimes I get trapped inside the cage, but he still can't land his W unless I'm stunned.
Squidblimp2 votesPeople downvoting this don't play Veigar. This is very true. It's extremely easy to dodge.
Sasogwa8 votesVeigar is not weak. Thanks to his amount of CC and damage he can provide. But Veigar is not really enjoyable to play anymore because he has 0 play potential by himself. Landing his E and W which are core to his kit depend entirely on his teammates chaining good CC, or opponents litteraly walking into it, and not Veigar being good at landing it, because the delay is simply too long. Veigar makes nothing happen, he chains on it, and that's kinda sad.
Meep Man8 votesIts not he is weak, he just kind of lost that "I am your doom" feel when he became less reliable to killing a target. Before, you would actively avoid Veigar in a fight usually, especially late game. Now Veigar has to actively avoid others and try not to die in a fight. Basically, even though Veigar was a little annoying before, playing him felt great and you knew you weren't OP since there were a lot of ways to play against him through items and faking him out.
Simply put, Veigar feels less powerful now although he might not be less powerful.
LaceUp237 voteshe can get more farm now
Last time I checked, 6 minions per wave regardless of Veigar's Q.
ElJanitorFrank2 votes2 AP per Q is likely what he meant.
And if you think Veigar gets all 6 minions, well, let's just say that his auto attack animation is lacking a bit.
Big Lincoln6 voteshow does he farm more, his W was already his mass waveclear and his Q had a lower cooldown pre-changes
if anything he sets himself up to get blown up by anyone who can dive early trying to position to take out 2 minions or he pushes the wave harder than he needs to by killing two minions simultaneously
why would E stopping dashes be relevant when most people can dash before the walls go up, unless you're like 
with a delay on his dash, if people have a decent enough reaction time they can jump out. even then, it's still just like before where trapping them in the box = missing your stun.
at best Veigar is only good at punishing bad positioning/reaction times and being solely reliant on that is not good design. even if he was good he feels extremely unsatisfying to play, i'm actually kind of upset that my friend gave me final boss just for me to hate playing him
TomA3X2 votesIf you don't get more farm, then you're doing something wrong. It's incredibly easy to set up a double Q, you don't have to do any bullshit maneuvering, and it doesn't push the wave more than intended. Quite honestly, I want to ask have you actually played the new veigar?
X8ViEhkPS04 votesIf you don't get more farm, then you're doing something wrong. It's incredibly easy to set up a double Q, you don't have to do any of bullshit maneuvering, and it doesn't push the wave more than intended. Quite honestly, I want to ask have you actually played the new veigar?
I'm still not entirely convinced he gets more AP from his Q. They didn't add more things for him to kill, they just gave him the off chance to double dip by having his Q on a flatter cool down curve. But at after rank 3 it is a longer cool down.
But I would need to see some statistics.
Big Lincoln2 votesi've played him extensively before and after his rework. and i stopped playing him because he feels like utter shit to play
most of my wins with are from enemies being bad and i'll stand by that it doesn't matter how good i am as veigar if my enemies are just flat-out worse than me
but riot's been ruining most of my favorite mid laners for ages now
Lugg6 votesI agree that Veiger isn't "weak" per say, it's just that he is definitely not strong compared to most mids. He only needs a slight buff or QoL change and he would be fine.
Cicote6 votesYou're right, Veigar isn't weak. That isn't his main issue though. His main "problem" is that he relies too much on his opponents mistakes.
lB2kGRlc8y4 votesNumerically no, he isn't weak, but the fact that his meteor is a non factor against anyone with a working brain makes him worse than other champions. He lost reliability on the ability that gave reliability to his meteor, and then they peppered in some more loss of reliability by making Q a skillshot. You make this post cause you clearly have no idea whats wrong with the champion, and haven't played against competent enough people as him (or maybe you haven't even played him) to shine light on the issue.
Enosetc1 votesYou make this post cause you clearly have no idea whats wrong with the champion, and haven't played against competent enough people as him (or maybe you haven't even played him) to shine light on the issue.
no.
i'm making this post to offer a different opinion from the "i can't do these things with this champion after their rework, therefore this champion is bad" opinion i keep hearing this board spout about nearly every rework. this is usually followed by said champion getting buffed and then nerfed into obscurity soon after.
Champion Skin2 votesI don't think Veigar is particularly weak however I do understand the people who dislike that the way veigar plays is different from what they like and is used to As he is more focused on sitting back and poking and farming with Q
However before he was more focused on poking his opponent down with his targeted Q and killing them... and was more focused on the mid game
Marthian3 votesAlong those lines, can we doing the same for Miss Fortune? She's anything but weak or easily replaced.
NapaIm7 votesAlong those lines, can we doing the same for Miss Fortune? She's anything but weak or easily replaced.
MF is not weak, she is just outclassed. Her issue is everyone does her job better. Namely Graves and Caitlyn. She isn't weak, just outclassed.
Binxy Prime3 votesisnt that the same thing in a video game
planters2 votesit kind of is except riot said they "reworked" her instead of something like a "brush-up". no matter how you slice it supposedly, she has been nerfed and her kit has little sense in its scaling. I havent played her but the general problem come 2-fold. first everyone is stating small things like how her Q doesnt priorites champs properly and has too small a window of effectiveness in the second bounce. the second is that she still doesnt have a niche. Until these two aspects of her are fixed people will complain because if you look at riots full scale reworks like Sion they can do an amazing job. Even small scope reworks like ashe where they barely changed anything, only going so far as to manipulate the already existent power to a better scope, show that they can and should put her into a better niche so that she doesnt feel useless. Feel seems to be paramount, and the general complaint is that veigar doesnt make you feel like your good only like your enemy is an idiot.
GamerThink3 votes
I am evil!
Arch Mage Magnus3 votesJust laned against a Syndra where I had 920 AP. Her ult could 100-0 me, but mine would only bring her to 80%. I had +170 AP from my passive. Trust me, Veig is weak.
Enosetc5 votes[{quoted}](name=Arch Mage Magnus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7XNkFjnl,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2015-07-28T20:15:53.950+0000)
Just laned against a Syndra where I had 920 AP. Her ult could 100-0 me, but mine would only bring her to 80%. I had +170 AP from my passive. Trust me, Veig is weak.
was it a full tank syndra
A Miss Fortune2 votesimagine syndra walking into lane with 6 spirit visages
Coiner105 votes"I had +170 AP from my passive." There's your problem, you should have had well over 1k ap in a 50 minute game.
Arch Mage Magnus2 votes"I had +170 AP from my passive." There's your problem, you should have had well over 1k ap in a 50 minute game.
At this point it was a 30 min game actually.
was it a full tank syndra
No, she was rocking Rylais, Deathcap and Morellos.
Kuroi863 votesWeak, no. Incomplete. What parts of his kit work, work well. His issue is that hitting his Dark Matter is based solely upon your ally ccing your enemy while you catch them. Without this, you lose out on nearly 40% of your damage.
Jari2 votesWho exactly do you play a lot? I'm just asking. Need to tell riot that we need to give them some, "compensation."
Enosetc1 votesWho exactly do you play a lot? I'm just asking. Need to tell riot that we need to give them some, "compensation."
Shen.
And before you get up in arms about "oh so you're just a FoTM abuser", I've played Shen at his strongest (back when his ult shielded both him and his ally) and his weakest and will likely continue to play him regardless of any nerfs or buffs he receives because I don't whine about toxic gameplay patterns being removed from champions.
Jari1 votesShen's FoTM? I'd be damn surprised. And my point was that they said he was to get compensation for the removal of a core item. Once they noticed he did fine without it anyways, they nerfed him because he got played support ONCE in a tourney. Nobody is saying he's worthless, and anyone that is saying it clearly still hasn't tried him. The point is that with this new kit, you don't feel good about landing that E. You didn't land it due to skill, knowing the cage, or anything like that. You landed it because your enemy walked into it like a moron. So if your opponent is decent enough to not walk into it, Veigar is useless outside of teamfights.
Plus his Q was used for harassing, not for farming. It gave him pressure in the lane, which made the enemy mid laner less likely to roam, or the jungler more likely to go mid instead of the other lanes. Now he has very little pressure. I can just completely ignore mid because I know all he's going to do is farm farm farm.
Enosetc1 votesShen's FoTM? I'd be damn surprised. And my point was that they said he was to get compensation for the removal of a core item. Once they noticed he did fine without it anyways, they nerfed him because he got played support ONCE in a tourney. Nobody is saying he's worthless, and anyone that is saying it clearly still hasn't tried him. The point is that with this new kit, you don't feel good about landing that E. You didn't land it due to skill, knowing the cage, or anything like that. You landed it because your enemy walked into it like a moron. So if your opponent is decent enough to not walk into it, Veigar is useless outside of teamfights.
Plus his Q was used for harassing, not for farming. It gave him pressure in the lane, which made the enemy mid laner less likely to roam, or the jungler more likely to go mid instead of the other lanes. Now he has very little pressure. I can just completely ignore mid because I know all he's going to do is farm farm farm.
Yes, his rework changed his gameplay patterns. This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.
Veigar being played in high-level competitive formats obviously raised a red flag for Riot because there were already multiple discussions about how ridiculously strong his E was when it was instant. We're all familiar with the trickle-down effect professional play has on the different ladders in this game. Riot knew they had to nip the problem with Veigar's E in the bud before it got out of hand.
I also wouldn't say that landing Veigar's E is 100% dependent on the opponent's stupidity. There are many non-AOE skillshots that give an indicator to the enemy of where they'll end up. Creating situations in which the opponent will be more likely to walk into the area is part of learning how to make the new Veigar work. It can still exist as a zoning tool in spite of not being instant and it can still create a favorable situation if you catch an opponent in the circle while not necessarily stunning them. I'll say again: the rework changed his gameplay patterns. Everyone should expect a rework to do so.
Jari1 votesBut here's the problem. It completely removed any way he could use it defensively. Any champ with mobility should not be hit by that E. They can dash out well before it appears. And you still never explained the change to him from a poke in lane to force the enemy out to... A legit nasus. The only difference is, at least Nasus can Q a turret. Veigar can't. Veigar shows no pressure in lane if he plays farming. And if he plays aggressive, I'll just dodge the cage and ruin his entire day.
And the only time your E isn't based off of the enemies poor positioning, or your opponents inability to pay attention to anything, is during a teamfight where it blends into everything for a surprise. That's it. And if your opponent can just avoid your E, good luck with W. And according to riot in tickets, there were plenty of people telling them how amazing this rework was over on the boards. I looked at those accounts. Not a single one played Veigar. In fact, they played things like LeBlanc and Zed, who got buffed from this change.
Enosetc1 votesBut here's the problem. It completely removed any way he could use it defensively. Any champ with mobility should not be hit by that E. They can dash out well before it appears. And you still never explained the change to him from a poke in lane to force the enemy out to... A legit nasus. The only difference is, at least Nasus can Q a turret. Veigar can't. Veigar shows no pressure in lane if he plays farming. And if he plays aggressive, I'll just dodge the cage and ruin his entire day.
And the only time your E isn't based off of the enemies poor positioning, or your opponents inability to pay attention to anything, is during a teamfight where it blends into everything for a surprise. That's it. And if your opponent can just avoid your E, good luck with W. And according to riot in tickets, there were plenty of people telling them how amazing this rework was over on the boards. I looked at those accounts. Not a single one played Veigar. In fact, they played things like LeBlanc and Zed, who got buffed from this change.
I did address the Q change in my "reworks change gameplay patterns" statement. There's also no guarantee that you'll dodge the E just because of the fact that it has a delay. Again, multiple skillshots have similar indicators while also having delays attached to them -- this isn't unique to Veigar.
I will concede that W change wouldn't hurt with E being not-instant anymore, but I still stand by my original statement of Veigar not being weak.
Jari1 votesMost of those indicators don't require you to touch the wall to be effected. If you stand in the middle of the cage, you can STILL dodge most of his damage and kill him in the process. And for some clarity here, I am NOT saying Veigar is weak. I'm saying he's unrewarding and just does well at punishing mistakes. And completely changing a champ's playstyle is not what you expect. What was Ryze before the rework? A mana based mage. What is he now? A mana based mage. It's just simple. Veigar. Isn't. Scary. He went from someone to fear to, "Just let him do his thing. Won't matter. While he's farming in mid we'll take Nexus."
Cloud Potato2 votesI feel like changing W could go a long way to making Veigar feel better. Right now it's pretty much useless without E or another champ's CC. Unlike many slow skillshots it lacks size to make it a proper zoning tool, and the fact that it's only huge damage without any other effects makes it feel rather unsatisfying to land considering the effort.
As for what to change about it, I'm not sure what could be the best thing to do. Veigar as a whole only really has E for his utility and there's a lot of things he could get. But one thing that would be neat could be something that helps set up Q kills, like for example, landing a killing blow with W on a minion/monster leaves it on low HP instead and refreshes the cooldown on Q.
Keitron2 votesHis winrate/pickrate is crap he is incredibly squishy oh and of 500 ranked games in soloQ i have not seen him once.
MAN OF INTELLECT1 votes
"Beaten by a little girl! HAH"
Only Play Darius5 votesIt's actually pretty sad, Annie is more of a nuke mage than the iconic purpose-built 100-0 nuke mage.