I wouldn't have a problem with Tristana if she didn't have so many failsafe mechanics

kargish·Mar 16, 2018·80 votes·4,241 views

And couldn't perform so many roles so well. Personally I feel like ADC are in the same spot that assassins are in, in which their items are the main source of their damage output rather than their kits. This is probably also why the first ADC to get gets to be the best, regardless of if it's .

The main reason why Tristana is so overwhelming, is because she's allowed to pump out damage almost identical to other carries while being super safe due to her kit.

Currently Tristana has top DPS and can pump it out at a higher range than Caitlyn
Her rocket jump is either an engage or a disengage tool, and it's resetable. If she can't reset it through killing someone, she can just detonate her E at max charge to get a free reset
If someone still manages to close in on her, she burst people with a 300-500 base damage ability and does a long AoE 600-1000 unit knockback

I'd be totally fine with Tristana being your go to safety ADC, being able to work well into heavy gap closer combs , but I don't like that she gets to be master of all trades.

gets really high range on her attacks, but the cost of that is low ability damage and no steroids. Also has a really high attack range, but that's for the sake of being a kite ADC and due to her having CC she has sacrificed a significant portion of her damage output.

Tristana on the other hand just has it all. CC? Check. Extreme mobility? Check. Long attack range? Check. High AS steroids? Check (7 bloody seconds...). There's no situation where it's a bad choice to pick Tristana, because quite frankly she has it all.

95 Comments

SmashinBobMar 16, 201846 votes

I completely agree, i am main adc, and have mastery 5+ on all adcs, tristana is by far one of the easiest adcs to play.

You cannot die in lane unless yourself makes a mistake, jumping away if bad trade, jump in if good trade, get reset and jump away. If you cant jump away, ult them away, and god forbid, you actually have to use flash to escape like any other normal adc. And then she scales into a hypercarry in late game, makes no sense.

PoskeMar 16, 20185 votes

Hm here is a thing

Tristana has very little agency compared to someone like ezreal.

While yes ezreal is weaker atleast he can win botlane on its own which trist can not

So if you face an AD carry which has agency you can easly get outshined early on

Varus and Xayah have higher agency

Z3SleeperMar 16, 20187 votes

{quoted}

While yes ezreal is weaker atleast he can win botlane on its own which trist can not

Wat. ADCs don't win lane on their own ever. This point doesn't make sense to begin with, ADCs are never alone.

0 HogapuMar 16, 20183 votes

Being 2 on a lane doesnt win you can solo win it though Poske is right in saying that Tristana can't do more than a Tristana can do (no skillshots or things) while Ez has a highly variable output of damage depending on how much skillshots he hits.

SasogwaMar 16, 201830 votes

Remove the buffer bullshit. I mean just look at aatrox dash and all the memes around unstoppable btw while trist w is basically unstoppable btw. I even saw her jump while in the effect of bard's ult. Bs at its finest

Z3SleeperMar 16, 20186 votes

Aatrox Q just kinda sucks against CC. It's one of the few, if not the only, dash in the game that can be cancelled by a stun.

Dunno if removing the buffer is a good idea though, I personally think removing avenues of skill expression is one of the worst ways to nerf a champion.

I guess it could always go the opposite route, having all forms of CC being able to stop it just like Aatrox. Then the skill expression goes from buffering CC -> making sure you use it when you can't be CC'd.

That actually sounds good. It's weird that a Melee champion has this counterplay effect while one of the safest ranged champions in the game has the opposite.

GentlemanGhidoraMar 17, 20182 votes

If interrupted by anything (which is basically most things) while in either segment of his Q, Aatrox is also punished by having to wait the entire cooldown.

XonraMar 18, 20182 votes

What skill expression? It's not like it takes skill to do it. Press jump when you are being or about to be hit with CC. Tada.

It basically makes CC against her useless unless you have enough mobility to somehow catch her and cc her again or kill her.

I am all for "skill expression" but Tristana have a free get out of CC jump is not skillful. It's like just jumping away when you are getting hooked with a Blitz Q as Ez. Trist can just do it with everything and it makes playing against her annoying cause it makes her "weaker laning phase" suck cause unless you chunk her to leave lane, she just sits and forever farms safely, even pushing up to just leap away from ganks.

Again, that isn't skill or skill expression, it is just, press the button, get away. Anyone can do it very easily unless you have the reaction speed of that hamster I had in elementary school that died mysteriously when I was at my friend's house that one night.

Z3SleeperMar 18, 20182 votes

{quoted}

What skill expression?

{quoted}

Press jump when you are being or about to be hit with CC.

It's the same as using any other unstoppable mechanic or ability which runs though CC to buffer or ignore a CC effect.

Using Warwick's Q to buffer incoming CC is skill expression. Using (old) Ornn W to buffer CC is skill expression. Using Shyvanna ult to buffer CC is skill expression.

But using Tristana jump to buffer CC isn't skill expression?

I'm not taking sides here, just clarifying what I, and what I think the majority, sees as skill expression. Also I've tried playing Tristana and buffering isn't that easy since you have to predict when the displacement effect is going to hit you (the buffer time is like 0.1s).

Once again though, not saying it doesn't make her overly safe, just saying it's still skill expression nonetheless.

Spank the FoxMar 18, 20181 votes

It’s skill expression is this years’ most annoying buzzword.

Last year it was power budget.

The guy you quoted just sprinkles it in his post without even thinking about possible contradictions

2Charmnot2CharmMar 18, 20181 votes

But using Tristana jump to buffer CC isn't skill expression?

Whoa this tristana pressed W just before the blitz hook hits her wow she's amazing dude!

Guess what the only way blitz can do anything to her with his Q is if she's already in the middle of jumping, she is NOT going to cast her jump till blitz cast's his hook there is nothing blitz can do with his hook if the trist has any brains.

The rest of your examples should also be common sense imo but whatever.

KarfussMar 18, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Whoa this tristana pressed W just before the blitz hook hits her wow she's amazing dude!

Guess what the only way blitz can do anything to her with his Q is if she's already in the middle of jumping, she is NOT going to cast her jump till blitz cast's his hook there is nothing blitz can do with his hook if the trist has any brains.

The rest of your examples should also be common sense imo but whatever.

The buffer window is 1/10th of a second. In almost every case, the Tristana is NOT cheesing Blitz's hook intentionally. To have such impeccable timing IS the skill expression, you need to be ramping up the W jump JUST as it hits. Blinks, such as Ezreal's E and Kassadin's R, have a much larger window because it extends through their cast time to when they're placed in their new position. So you see that more often.

Tristana mitigating CC intentionally is something you're only going to see at very high ELO by a Trist main. Everywhere else is fortunate (or unfortunate for you) timing on their part.

Z3SleeperMar 18, 20181 votes

Look, you can sarcastically describe any skill expressive move to make it sound skill-less.

"Whoa this lee sin pressed R and flashed how skillful."

"Whoa this gragas pressed Q and R'd me into it how skillful."

"Whoa this yasuo pressed E a billion times to dodge everything how skillful."

But it doesn't prove anything.

QuortMar 16, 20181 votes

I watched the Tristana on my team jump while dead and being revived by my Chronoshift... twice! It was the beautiful combination of our teamwork. c:

o brigid oMar 17, 20181 votes

Trist w isn't unstoppable at all. The last time I went agaisnt trist (just yesterday I think) I was playing quinn and easily cancelled her w more than once with quinn e.

I'm sure there are plenty other mechanics (like draven knockback) that would do the same.

My Waifu VanillaMar 17, 20181 votes

The problem is the fact if you use your hard CC before trist jumps. You lose. She will just reactionally jump and never be cc'ed due to the buffer. If she jumps before you use the CC then yes the CC goes through, but that just means she's garbage and deserves to die. The ball is entirely in Tristana's court and you can only really punish bad ones who use their only actually "skillful" move poorly. If Tristana uses her brain she will never rocket jump until you are about to hit her with Vault and then she just ignores the knockback entirely and you get nothing out of it besides now being most likely in way deeper than you need to be.

KarfussMar 17, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Trist w isn't unstoppable at all. The last time I went agaisnt trist (just yesterday I think) I was playing quinn and easily cancelled her w more than once with quinn e.

I'm sure there are plenty other mechanics (like draven knockback) that would do the same.

That's actually a valid issue. When dashes and blinks (not limited to Tristana) are activated at the same time as stun/displacement/supression effects are applied, they will not cancel them. During a dash, however, it will interrupt it but not at the point of activation.

One of the oldest example of that is Ezreal cheesing Blitzcrank grabs. Tristana can do it too, if timed perfectly.

The problem there is coding and how placement altering effects interact. There isn't any fix for that, if it was doable it would've been done. Obviously Tristana receives more hate for that, because her dash covers a very long distance.

SpecterVonBarenMar 17, 20182 votes

The other reason people notice it so much is because it has such a long cast time for a dash. The cast time is why you can outright kill her before she gets away if enough damage hits her.

AwesomeGuyDjMar 17, 20181 votes

iirc any form of knockback cancels but if you stun her/root during buffer it wont. Unless rito fixed that in bug part of the patches it hasnt changed afaik.

SpecterVonBarenMar 17, 20184 votes

So you want her to escape easier? The buffer exists because of the cast time, removing the buffer means you remove the cast time.

GinormousVnerMar 16, 201810 votes

She currently has a 47-48% win rate, has already been nerfed, has no ability to freeze the lane (extremely important at high elo), no true CC and only comes online at her 3rd item mark meaning her early-mid game is pretty shit right now (as it should be).

Contrast that to Varus who is relevant the moment he has Guinsoos (and never not becomes relevant), has an insanely powerful cc or Xayah who is just disgusting right now (Invulnerability+Damage that allows of disengages and engages, one of the strongest laners right now who also scales well, great cc potential and is also strong at every moment of the game) and yet you say nothing about these champions.

Varus I get, dude is unsafe and is pretty much the "unerfed" Kog'Maw right now but Xayah is far more disgusting than Tristana right now and all of the data backs my claim up.

There is literally nothing wrong with Tristana or her kit right now.

NorthernRedStarMar 16, 20185 votes

{quoted}

She currently has a 47-48% win rate, has already been nerfed, has no ability to freeze the lane (extremely important at high elo), no true CC and only comes online at her 3rd item mark meaning her early-mid game is pretty shit right now (as it should be).

Contrast that to Varus who is relevant the moment he has Guinsoos (and never not becomes relevant), has an insanely powerful cc or Xayah who is just disgusting right now (Invulnerability+Damage that allows of disengages and engages, one of the strongest laners right now who also scales well, great cc potential and is also strong at every moment of the game) and yet you say nothing about these champions.

Varus I get, dude is unsafe and is pretty much the "unerfed" Kog'Maw right now but Xayah is far more disgusting than Tristana right now and all of the data backs my claim up.

There is literally nothing wrong with Tristana or her kit right now.

She has a small AoE click-on knockback and a massive AoE slow in her W landing zone. That's hardly 'no true CC'.

She coming online after 3 items is complete BS and you should know that. She snowballs extremely hard even in lane.

HeeroTXMar 16, 20185 votes

{quoted}

She has a small AoE click-on knockback and a massive AoE slow in her W landing zone. That's hardly 'no true CC'.

She coming online after 3 items is complete BS and you should know that. She snowballs extremely hard even in lane.

Her slow is only on landing W near the target, that is FAR from a "good" CC ability. It's a "useful" chase mechanic but terrible for most anything else. OTOH, Xayah can root (from range), Twitch can slow (from range), Caitlyn can root and slow (from range), Jinx can root and slow (from range), Vayne can STUN (from range), Varus can root (from range). But the champ that's being claimed as problematic because of her massive "scaling range" (which only becomes "best" at Level 18) safety only has CC when she essentially puts herself in MELEE range.

Tristana is pretty easy to zone or bully early because her early range and AS are low specifically BECAUSE her kit makes them stronger later. And as was noted, she can't freeze safely due to her E passive, so if you put the wave in a difficult spot you can poke and zone her off farm and then beat her with better stats. (if she has a good support and you don't, then you're boned, but that's true of most ADCs)

NorthernRedStarMar 16, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Her slow is only on landing W near the target, that is FAR from a "good" CC ability. It's a "useful" chase mechanic but terrible for most anything else. OTOH, Xayah can root (from range), Twitch can slow (from range), Caitlyn can root and slow (from range), Jinx can root and slow (from range), Vayne can STUN (from range), Varus can root (from range). But the champ that's being claimed as problematic because of her massive "scaling range" (which only becomes "best" at Level 18) safety only has CC when she essentially puts herself in MELEE range.

Tristana is pretty easy to zone or bully early because her early range and AS are low specifically BECAUSE her kit makes them stronger later. And as was noted, she can't freeze safely due to her E passive, so if you put the wave in a difficult spot you can poke and zone her off farm and then beat her with better stats. (if she has a good support and you don't, then you're boned, but that's true of most ADCs)

Xayah root can be dodge with minimal brain usage. Caitlyn slow is 0.5 seconds and easily baited out and dodged, puts her out of range for followup. Jinx is dodgeable, with ease. All bad comparisons.

Tristana is not problematic due to her scaling, she's problematic because her kit has everything on while being relevant and strong at all stages of the game, IN COMPARISON with every other ADC. She's a swiss army knife, that becomes M16 as game goes on.

Being able to gun down towers faster than others is more relevant in a meta such as his than freezing waves, which can easily be played around with jungle synergy and support non-braindead pick efficiency.

Lane bullying has most its attraction because ADCs can easily supplement early sustain with Doran's Shield and Fleet Footwork.

You can tell the game's becoming more and more casual as you see people on boards with no goddamn idea what they're talking about.

HeeroTXMar 16, 20186 votes

Aside from her bomb formerly being Grievous Wounds (and no "burst" on 4th hit) Tristana has LITERALLY had her entire kit exactly as it exists now (with various numbers tweaks) since she was introduced. Her jump, knockback, range and steroid have ALL been there from the beginning and she has at times been viewed as complete TRASH tier and other times S tier. And there has really been NO change to her "kit" in the time between. Heck, her range used to be LONGER and all her kit items used to synergize more with cooldowns, and she STILL wasn't "must pick". She's been a common pick this season, but again HOW HAS HER KIT CHANGED? It hasn't, AT ALL. She had her ult cooldown extended in 8.4 and had her overall range reduced in 8.5. (max now 661 instead of 669, for comparison, with Fishbones Jinx can hit 700)

The one debatable point is that ORIGINALLY Tristana's "weak point" was supposed to be "mid-game". And Riot seems determined to get rid of mid-game, presumably because it is boring. So she's decent at early game and (as intended) strong in "late game", so now it's hard to hit her "weak point" because Riot doesn't want that phase to exist. That's a GAME problem tho.

My Waifu VanillaMar 17, 20181 votes

Having a single AD ratio added to a kit at no real downside was a massive buff as well as adding more ways to reset her jump (detonating E manually resets it). The only thing Tristana had in her kit before her rework was range. She didn't actually scale well, but was generally safe enough to pelt people down with bee bees until they died. Adding a 198% Bonus AD ratio to a kit with next to no trade offs (it added a condition that was fairly easy to achieve) and converting it to physical damage caused her damage to actually scale fairly hard and have burst attached to it. Tristana's damage from her kit stopped at level 9 unless you built AP (the ult did go up a bit in damage at level 11/16) with the rest being multiplicative stats with items (AS is useless on its own). All of Tristana's damage before the rework was directly related to how good items were since that was the ONLY way she did damage. Adding a ratio to her E still does cause her damage to be fairly correlated with items, but a 198% AD ratio causes her E to do ~170 more damage with just IE+DBlade on a fully stacked one (which yet again isn't very hard with IE+Zeal item and about level 10 so 3 points in Q).

KarfussMar 17, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=My Waifu Vanilla,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7MHpU5zV,comment-id=000600000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-17T02:07:04.532+0000)

Having a single AD ratio added to a kit at no real downside was a massive buff as well as adding more ways to reset her jump (detonating E manually resets it). The only thing Tristana had in her kit before her rework was range. She didn't actually scale well, but was generally safe enough to pelt people down with bee bees until they died. Adding a 198% Bonus AD ratio to a kit with next to no trade offs (it added a condition that was fairly easy to achieve) and converting it to physical damage caused her damage to actually scale fairly hard and have burst attached to it. Tristana's damage from her kit stopped at level 9 unless you built AP (the ult did go up a bit in damage at level 11/16) with the rest being multiplicative stats with items (AS is useless on its own). All of Tristana's damage before the rework was directly related to how good items were since that was the ONLY way she did damage. Adding a ratio to her E still does cause her damage to be fairly correlated with items, but a 198% AD ratio causes her E to do ~170 more damage with just IE+DBlade on a fully stacked one (which yet again isn't very hard with IE+Zeal item and about level 10 so 3 points in Q).

Tristana did need that buff though. You said yourself, she had no AD scaling and her niche was her late game range. When you compare that to someone like Xayah, who comes with an AS roid and AD scaling... Tristana would be completely out of her depth.

I can get behind hitting Tristana by changing her E stack W resets. Give it a partial reduction like Lux's ultimate, or just reduce her jump cooldown overall. But her damage output relative to other ADCs is more than fine, she is outclassed by almost all of them in that department. Her only saving grace for her damage is the range she can pull it at late game.

SpeeedyMar 16, 20189 votes

i really like tristana and you are not stating any of her weakness

Currently Tristana has top DPS and can pump it out at a higher range than Caitlyn

only at lvl 17 & 18

Some of her major flaws with the recent range nerf is that it is very easy to set up a freeze on her. I was watching a stream where it was a TahmKench vs Caitlyn Morgana . The tristana had about 45 cs in 13 min in a masters level game. Her other major flaw is she can never freeze a lane when you are behind.

They definitely made her weaker early which is fine but I don't see her being S tier now with Xayah, Cait and varus being top 3 in my opinion.

If someone still manages to close in on her, she burst people with a 300-500 base damage ability

Also that is any ADC due to crit and that much damage is late game

Votable JesterMar 16, 201811 votes

That last bit is talking about her ult i think.

OzXMar 16, 20187 votes

You didn't state any weakness either, except from "she can't freeze lane" which can be a disadvantage If you are behind but is also an advantage when you want to push.

Taking a single example of an extreme case is also useless.

HeeroTXMar 16, 20187 votes

Not being able to CONTROL wave position completely (which she can't due to E passive) is a disadvantage.

My Waifu VanillaMar 17, 20182 votes

Which has been a thing since Tristana was a champion back in beta and yet despite that she has been the best ADC out of the roster on MULTIPLE occasions. If it is supposed to be a glaring weakness (which it really isn't) it shouldn't be VASTLY offset by the rest of her kit causing it to not matter in 90%+ of games (anything below plat and no one knows what a freeze even is).

SpecterVonBarenMar 17, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=My Waifu Vanilla,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7MHpU5zV,comment-id=0003000100000000,timestamp=2018-03-17T01:46:40.821+0000)

Which has been a thing since Tristana was a champion back in beta and yet despite that she has been the best ADC out of the roster on MULTIPLE occasions.

SO HAS EVERY OTHER FREAKING ADC!

KarfussMar 16, 20186 votes

Her win rate is below 50%, and the core of her kit has been unchanged for years.

She isn't the only one with a dash, she isn't the only one with a knockback, she isn't the only one with self-peel. She's fine.

Disclaimer: No, I'm not an ADC main nor do I think ADCs are balanced. Fact is that Tristana certainly isn't the strongest ADC right now, and her stats reflect that. She'll need BUFFS come itemisation nerfs.

kargishMar 16, 20184 votes

I get that you didn't read the post, but as I said I am fine with Tristana being the supposed selfpeel ADC, I just don't like that she has the longest attack range and hyperscaling while being able to do that.

KarfussMar 16, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I get that you didn't read the post, but as I said I am fine with Tristana being the supposed selfpeel ADC, I just don't like that she has the longest attack range and hyperscaling while being able to do that.

I did read the post. Disagreement =/= Not reading.

Her attack range is her hyperscaling. She only surpasses Caitlyn's range at level 17-18 and that has ALWAYS been the case.

The truth is that Tristana gets bullied by every other ADC early. Caitlyn out ranges her, Draven/Varus/Xayah/Kog'Maw/Vayne out damages her, Ashe/Sivir/Ezreal out poke her. She falls behind, she can't freeze waves and she can't farm under turret. That's how she is designed, the AoE on her E that you argue is the best for pushing is actually there to cripple her early.

It is only at late game, level 15+ onwards, where she reaches her potential. Take a look at her win rates by game duration.

kargishMar 16, 20184 votes

Sorry mate, but the reason why I say you didn't read the post is because you're arguing against a topic I haven't commented upon. I'm not talking about Tristana's laning phase, I am not comparing her to other carries and saying she's too strong and I certainly haven't talked about her AoE E. You're making up those arguments yourself.

KarfussMar 16, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Sorry mate, but the reason why I say you didn't read the post is because you're arguing against a topic I haven't commented upon. I'm not talking about Tristana's laning phase, I am not comparing her to other carries and saying she's too strong and I certainly haven't talked about her AoE E. You're making up those arguments yourself.

You're arguing she's OP. I'm arguing she isn't.

kargishMar 16, 20182 votes

Please point out where I have said that she is OP compared to the other ADCs

KarfussMar 16, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Please point out where I have said that she is OP compared to the other ADCs

{quoted}

gets really high range on her attacks, but the cost of that is low ability damage and no steroids. Also has a really high attack range, but that's for the sake of being a kite ADC and due to her having CC she has sacrificed a significant portion of her damage output.

Tristana on the other hand just has it all. CC? Check. Extreme mobility? Check. Long attack range? Check. High AS steroids? Check (7 bloody seconds...). There's no situation where it's a bad choice to pick Tristana, because quite frankly she has it all.

Automated RivenMar 17, 20182 votes

Pointing at the two actual worst adc's in the game and talking about their opertunity cost is not saying that the third must be op because she chests out of the same weaknesses.

Also being a jack of all trades doesn't mean she is op either. For literal years we have had Lee sin (before his most recent nerfs) and renekton who were both balanced but filled a jack of all trades role. It means problem, not over powered. Same with old moakai and literally every meta mage in LCS.

Mast3rShakeMar 17, 20181 votes

Cait is the top ADC in the game right now. Please keep up

Automated RivenMar 17, 20181 votes

My bad. She goes from garbage tier to top tier all the damn time. And I barely ply this game anymore.

KarfussMar 17, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7MHpU5zV,comment-id=000c0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-17T00:10:52.210+0000)

Pointing at the two actual worst adc's in the game and talking about their opertunity cost is not saying that the third must be op because she chests out of the same weaknesses.

Also being a jack of all trades doesn't mean she is op either. For literal years we have had Lee sin (before his most recent nerfs) and renekton who were both balanced but filled a jack of all trades role. It means problem, not over powered. Same with old moakai and literally every meta mage in LCS.

Oh come off it. If you're saying X champion has X weakness but Y champion doesn't, you're inferring that Y champion is automatically better.

Even the OP didn't respond to that when asking me to quote them. I have no idea why you're debating that, there isn't any debate to be had. The tone of this thread and the OP's post is a bias in that Tristana is OP, despite literally every statistic proving the opposite. How she is a jack of all trades, has no weaknesses, is ultra safe;

http://champion.gg/champion/Tristana/ADC

Like every single hyper carry, mediocre 0-20 mins. Nose dives 20-25. Picks back up again 30+ mins.

She clearly isn't as overwhelming as the OP and yourself paint her because her win rate would be higher than 50%. She clearly doesn't have no weaknesses (as I've outlined for you), and she certainly isn't jack of all trades (define jack of all trades with relevance to Tristana and her place as an ADC, instead of using it as a buzzword. It's just throwing words around at this point).

This is just ADC hate bandwagoning. WE and Riot know that itemisation is the issue, burst (by crit proxy) and the highest penetration options in the game don't mix well. The individual champions aren't the problem, and certainly not Tristana, whose core kit has remained untouched since 2009.

Funny how when ADCs are the strongest they've ever been, Tristana's 2 min cooldown knockback, scaling range and rocket jumps is now a problem. Not within the past 8-9 years for a champion whose kit is "toxic" "oppressive" "overwhelming" "ultra safe" "jack of all trades." You'd think if that were true, they'd be an issue then.

My Waifu VanillaMar 17, 20181 votes

I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you, but Tristana did receive a rather substantial rework in January 2015 which changed her E significantly and actually gave her an AD ratio in her kit (it was ALL AP before the rework causing her to actually scale very poorly). Since then they have added and removed synergies with Q/E and also implemented the jump reset on E detonation which is generally one of the biggest bandwagon complaints about the champion since even if she doesn't get a kill or assist it is still fairly hard to punish her for jumping on top of you if she is at 3/4 stacks of her E since she can just jump right back out after 2/1 autos respectively.

KarfussMar 17, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=My Waifu Vanilla,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7MHpU5zV,comment-id=000c000000000000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2018-03-17T01:52:35.954+0000)

I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you, but Tristana did receive a rather substantial rework in January 2015 which changed her E significantly and actually gave her an AD ratio in her kit (it was ALL AP before the rework causing her to actually scale very poorly). Since then they have added and removed synergies with Q/E and also implemented the jump reset on E detonation which is generally one of the biggest bandwagon complaints about the champion since even if she doesn't get a kill or assist it is still fairly hard to punish her for jumping on top of you if she is at 3/4 stacks of her E since she can just jump right back out after 2/1 autos respectively.

That's fair, the point is that the rocket jump (and its reset) and her knockback ult has always existed in one incarnation or another.

I'm actually for removing her 4 stack reset, because she never had it up until that acute rework and she never really needed it, perhaps having it reduce the cooldown rather than reset entirely. Also if attack speed wasn't so freely abundant and didn't coincide with crit (a la Zeal), I don't think her E stack resets would be that bad either, but that's a wait and see.

The issue is when people would rather her not have a jump at all, when the jump itself has never been an issue in the past 8-9 years until now when ADC itemisation is overboard.

My Waifu VanillaMar 17, 20181 votes

I think another problem is the fact that ADCs damage is much more front loaded now compared to pre rework (the traditional build beforehand was like BT+P Dancer) meaning the resets actually mean more and she can actually jump around killing people. I don't think Tristana is an actual problem and that it is the items and how exponential ADC damage is (a 3 item ADC does WAYYY more damage than a 2 item one) combined with the fact a statikk shiv crit from like 700 range (due to RFC) can do at least half of a squishies health if it crits which it will more often than not since ADCs rock 80% crit nowadays since lifesteal is unnecessary when DBlade+Fleet Footwork are more than enough for sustain until 4 items (which is yet another problem in itself).

Automated RivenMar 17, 20181 votes

Alright. I will try to explain a little better.

Tristana is not OP.
The design problems that people have with tristana have started becoming apparent once people started to abuse a mechanic that she has which priorly was not used. This being the buffer on her rocket jump. If you combine an essential uninterruptible resetable long range dash (I know it's interuptible but it forces you, as a player, to have two forms of displacement or your team to work together to throw two CC's if she plays perfectly. Which not even pros have been seen to do) with a 1000 range knockback. It's provides way to much safety for her without any real investment.
It's not her laning or midgame people have problems with, it's her late game. Which is reached far to early with current adc itemization. She becomes (as one tristana main on the forums put it) the late game self peeling hyper carry. That's what people have a problem with. Once you hit three items and level 14-18 her range is too high for the safety she has. And the design philosophy in this game is balanced in such a way that 'dont let her get there' is not really an option.

Tldr. She is too strong late game. She should not have access to en extra reset which was implimented in her last rework, and her rocket jump needs to either be recoded so that cc interuptible the buffer or the range needs to be slightly lessened and have the buffer removed. Nothing major. But she should not have multiple ways to peel for herself once divers and tanks get on top of her.

Oh ya. Jack of all trades.

She has a strong laning. It's nearly impossible to shove her in due to her passive on E i think. She rapidly out ranges most other champions in botlane. It used to be level 2 but now it's like level 4-5. She has fairly reliable harrass patterns 'dropping e on a 1 shot minion and aaing when next to an opponent' she doesn't really lose lane to other bot lane champions because she just shoves and then doesn't interact with you. Barring sivir (kinda) and Caitlin. Maybe there are others. She also doesn't actually have a bad midgame. BF plus static shiv and she is equally as useful as most other adc's at that time. Barring midgame centric adc's but she rapidly passes that point due to easy waveclear into 2-1/2-3 item where she hits late game status and becomes extremely strong. She can do everything that other adc's can do at this point. And almost as well. She kills Squishies in like 1.5 seconds if she catches them out. Bomb into 3 autos and ultimate quing the last auto during the cast time. She peels herself. She has mobility that randomly resets without her really trying. She has the longest static range in the game at that point.

TopperHMar 17, 20185 votes

In terms of hypercarries Jinx, Twitch and Xayah all have access to big AOE damage that can shred multiple enemies at once when they are grouped up (jinxrunnans+rockets, twitch R runnans, xayah passive and E)

Meanwhile Tristana a good dps but only with Q and E up and SINGLE target.

Her "massive range" isn't massive until later levels, and Jinx rockets still have higher range.

Her laning phase is now trash since the last nerf unless enemy fucks up and she gets a successfull all-in early.

People need to stop pretending Tristana has the best DPS, she does way less damage in teamfights than a twitch, jinx or xayah, and without Q up her attack speed is garbage.

So yeah she gets to have safety and your complaints are missplaced.

Mast3rShakeMar 16, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Tristana on the other hand just has it all. CC? Check. Extreme mobility? Check. Long attack range? Check. High AS steroids? Check (7 bloody seconds...). There's no situation where it's a bad choice to pick Tristana, because quite frankly she has it all.

Let's check the accuracy of this quote out for laning:

"CC?" nope, she gets her ult at lvl 6 and it now has a two minute cooldown

"Extreme mobility?" if you call rocket jump extreme. If she jumps in and doesn't get a reset she is done.

"Long attack range?" sure, when you don't count Caitlyn Ashe Varus Corki Draven Ezreal Jhin MissFortune Twitch Vayne who all have longer AA ranges

"High AS steroids? Check" Yup, even a blind squirrel finds a nut

"There's no situation where it's a bad choice to pick Tristana, because quite frankly she has it all." Yeah, I guess if everyone gets to start at level 18 with three items you are pretty much screwed, but if there is a laning phase in the game with supports you may have exaggerated just a tad.

And if you point is correct, that the best adc is going to be the first to get item 3031 item 3087 item 3094 then cait will get it well before tristana if their supports are equal in skill. There is a reason that Trist is currently not top tier at the moment and has a sub 50% win rate in all elos.