Worlds Have Shown, Nay, Proved, This Jungler Needs A Nerf

Mast3rShake·Oct 5, 2015·99 votes·7,028 views

Number of plays in first four days of Worlds:

15x 11x 9x 5x 2x 1x 0x, so ~~buff~~ nerf incoming

Best Balance Team NA

218 Comments

Cowgirl EdOct 5, 201542 votes

but muh stealth

Mast3rShakeOct 5, 201523 votes

Clearly OP, cause you know, what's a pink ward?

MadLyfeOct 5, 201582 votes

wtf is a ward can i eat it

JariOct 6, 201513 votes

Will you take these? Seriously that was hilarious. XD

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/491/523/f7f.gif

Guy Fox TeemoOct 6, 201514 votes

Evenlyn doesn't need nerfs but the pink ward argument is retarded since it can die, and you now have to spend another 100 Gold to cover A VERY small portion of the map

AbyssphereOct 6, 20156 votes

{quoted}

Evenlyn doesn't need nerfs but the pink ward argument is retarded since it can die you have to spend another 100 Gold to cover A VERY small portion of the map

Evelynn turning up to your lane and destroying your pink, then having to leave because you saw her, is a gold swing in your favour. She's wasted her time when she could have been farming creeps for gold/xp just to get some measly gold from destroying a ward. It feels bad but really is a win for you.

Guy Fox TeemoOct 6, 201514 votes

You also used 100 gold and she gained 30. You now have to back and spend another 100 gold which is 1/3 of every kill or about 5 CS.

A Miss FortuneOct 6, 201511 votes

For only 5 CS a minute you TOO can invalidate Evelynn!!!!

Hurry, act now and we'll throw in a free item 3364

Tannhäuser GateOct 6, 201516 votes

item 3364 does nothing as the truesight range is lower than the range she is visible.

A Miss FortuneOct 6, 201526 votes

There's a reason we sell it for free.

Shield VillainOct 6, 20156 votes

That's the upgraded version, and you're ignoring the fact you might as well not have it since it's literally useless against Eve. At the range you can cast it, you can already see her.

Your argument would hold up a little more if you were talking about item 3362 but even then it's not free, and it's not without its weakness in cool down time. Yeah you save money but by the time it's back up again you might have been ganked by her. So either you opt out on wasting 100 gold every time it's destroyed, or you do nothing about her stealth.

You can't just place good wards, because her passive allows her to travel the entirety of the map without being seen, so long as she's not attacking. So you can't say good ward placement is key either.

If you don't keep that item 2043 up you're always vulnerable to her.

Guy Fox TeemoOct 6, 20153 votes

5 CS is actually a lot bud lol , losing about 75 CS a game = 1500 Gold (Average 20 Gold Per Minon) , while also adding the fact it doesn't negative evelyn as there are many routes she can take that you can't always ward and easily spotted by the enemy laner. And you can only cover the map with 5 Pinks which VERY little in terms of where she can go.

Mast3rShakeOct 6, 20153 votes

since when did 5 = 75 ? and if you did spend 75 cs on pink wards that means you bought 15 pink wards...seems plausible; her only advantage is her stealth so sorry you have to play around the only thing that makes her useful in the game

Mast3rShakeOct 6, 20151 votes

oh no, 5 cs to negate a champ and gank... oh the humanity; bronze mentality if i ever saw one

look what pro's do, their map is littered with pinks from everyone, always

Guy Fox TeemoOct 6, 20158 votes

It's not littered with pinks though :/ You can only place one per champion.

EddardStark84Oct 6, 20156 votes

Except that she doesn't have to leave and can sit there without you knowing it because the pink is gone. Pinks are NOT a huge hard counter to stealth. They are a soft counter. They only shed vision on a small area of the map and can only have 1 per person. So unless you plan on sitting next to your pink ward all game and not farming, taking objectives, etc...they are very clearly not the huge counter you seem to think they are. There's a BIG reason all stealth champions are considered "cancerous" and generally kept in a weak state...

Mast3rShakeOct 6, 20152 votes

but when u see her clear it you let the wave push into you, play safe for a while and if she stays waiting for you to push she just wasted all that time for nothing; so yes, you have to play smart and not be lazy

DokiDokiTodorokiOct 6, 20153 votes

It takes less than five seconds to clear a ward. She leaves, maybe takes a camp or scuttles, and then she can immediately be back and ganking you because now there's no true sight. Even if you spend the next five minutes farming under tower, she can be running through your jungle or on the other side of the map and you have no idea. 30 gold in 5 seconds? Worth it to gank, even if the gank doesn't go well at least you get farm faster than clearing a jungle camp.

CrownsyOct 6, 20155 votes

no, on many levels. You just clearly don't like to ward because "Fuck vision, mah damage!"

First, as has been pointed out, her finding the ward is actually a victory for you. 1st, she has to destealth to kill it, and you can either collapse on her, or get safe in that time. Second, at level 9, you get unlimited pink wards for 250 GP. At the very least, she has to waste time on a failed gank, which if your Jungler is smart, should lead to a gank in the opposite lane the minute she shows herself.

Also, as has been pointed out, since she invades to push her stealth advantage constantly, you green ward your jungles camps, or near them. If your pushing bot, you can even ward her camps. When she shows to clear a camp, you know what quadrant she is in for the next 1-3 minutes. Don't overpush if it's near you.

Honestly though, this is a losing battle. People are going to continue to not ward properly, or blame their support. The new vision system assumes competence and effort to deal with stealth the average player isn't going to put in. At this point, as a former Eve main, I wish they would just gut her passive, and rework it since she clearly isn't going to get a fair shake as long as the boards explode with:

"WTF! I was pushing the enemy bot lane to their tower 3 minutes in with just a trinket ward and this bitch ganks me! OP!!!!!"

magic poleOct 6, 20154 votes

Vayne is too good for item 2043

Braum used item 2043 in river bush, but Braum only has 1 .

Evelynn came from tri.

item 3070

Earl EulrichOct 5, 201516 votes

yea, eve really could use some love (or better yet, a rework that works out)...

UrGayTwink04Oct 5, 201514 votes

Eve is already terrible and I am surprised she is getting a nerf.

Her early game ganks are great but you could get 20 kills on her in the first 10 minutes of the game and still lose the game because she contributes almost nothing to late-game teamfights. In fact, something like this is what happens to me every time I play Eve. I get hugely fed but then if building damage she will die instantly in any late game fight, or if built tankier she will do no damage and have no CC so she just stands around doing nothing. Maybe I don't understand how to play this champ?

XelviOct 5, 20158 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cuttin Queefs,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7Lp1WEIH,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2015-10-05T22:45:28.039+0000)

Eve is already terrible and I am surprised she is getting a nerf.

Her early game ganks are great but you could get 20 kills on her in the first 10 minutes of the game and still lose the game because she contributes almost nothing to late-game teamfights. In fact, something like this is what happens to me every time I play Eve. I get hugely fed but then if building damage she will die instantly in any late game fight, or if built tankier she will do no damage and have no CC so she just stands around doing nothing. Maybe I don't understand how to play this champ?

No that's pretty much how it goes. She's designed right now to get your team ahead, because if you take kills you're doing your team more harm than good.

YumaS2AstralOct 6, 20155 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cuttin Queefs,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7Lp1WEIH,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2015-10-05T22:45:28.039+0000)

Eve is already terrible and I am surprised she is getting a nerf.

Her early game ganks are great but you could get 20 kills on her in the first 10 minutes of the game and still lose the game because she contributes almost nothing to late-game teamfights. In fact, something like this is what happens to me every time I play Eve. I get hugely fed but then if building damage she will die instantly in any late game fight, or if built tankier she will do no damage and have no CC so she just stands around doing nothing. Maybe I don't understand how to play this champ?

Eve has the same problem as Lee Sin. Unless he snowballs his team and end the game early, he WILL be outscaled. And hard.

However Lee Sin has several advantages over Eve: Much more mobility. He has an easier time stealing dragons and does not need to burn Flash to do that. Due to his insane base damages AND scalings, he can actually build somewhat tanky and still do decent damage late game. Or he could build full damage - this is not recommended, but the burst is insane. He uses energy so he doesn't run into mana problems. Also, he has much better CC. Eve's only advantage over Lee is stealth. But that's not something that is too hard to solve. A simple pink ward can ruin Eve's day.

DealthOct 6, 20153 votes

Lee Sin's weakness isn't his scaling, he has some of the best scaling in the game for being a bruiser. The problem is his team fighting, because he has almost nothing to offer when late game is team-fight oriented.

Jungle Lux GodOct 6, 20158 votes

To be fair, he does have really good pick potential in teamfights.

LeeSin You want their carry? Here, you can have their carry.

Veigar Thanks Lee Sin!

Bouffon dAnglaisOct 6, 20157 votes

Tristana You want their Sivir? take her Azir Thanks!

LC$BIGPLAY$

Rinky DinkyOct 6, 20154 votes

Then you probably have no idea how to position or play eve in teamfights.

... ever think of that?

Lord DusteonOct 5, 20157 votes

If you look at all of the top picks though, they are all champions with good early game ganking that can transition into a tanky frontliner and still catch people out. That's what worlds values: high early game ganking potential to secure leads, followed by tankiness since the carries give all the damage their team needs. Eve provides amazing early game ganking, but she doesn't scale as well with tankiness so other champions with actual hard CC are being picked instead as they fit what they are looking for the best.

Mast3rShakeOct 5, 20158 votes

That is the point. Why is she getting nerfed if she has a clear downside and is getting no play from the players that know what champions are strongest.

The Yetii RiderOct 6, 20152 votes

{quoted}

That is the point. Why is she getting nerfed if she has a clear downside and is getting no play from the players that know what champions are strongest.

She's getting a mana cost added to her W because she is a spam-based champion who just received an additional 200 maximum mana with the release of Runeglaive. It's to tone down her ability to gank with her Q over and over before she backs. It's not because she's overpowered, it's because they need to balance her around her synergy with a new item.

Mast3rShakeOct 6, 20152 votes

That mana cost is going to kill her before she is able to get Runeglaive so that is a terrible argument and if she isn't overpowered that leaves her being balanced. She has no way to get through the jungle quickly other than her W and now her early game will be pathetically slow. Lee can dash about for free, and other champs all have gap closers they use to jump around the jungle.

The Yetii RiderOct 6, 20154 votes

{quoted}

That mana cost is going to kill her before she is able to get Runeglaive so that is a terrible argument and if she isn't overpowered that leaves her being balanced. She has no way to get through the jungle quickly other than her W and now her early game will be pathetically slow. Lee can dash about for free, and other champs all have gap closers they use to jump around the jungle.

As a Nunu main, I do not feel your pain. I have mana costs on my W as well, and I still clear it perfectly fine.

Evelynn has good ganks and dodges green wards. Her early clear should suck. It's what keeps her from permaganking.

Tristanl0lOct 5, 20156 votes

as long as they dont continue to nerf my freelo Xer'Sai Queen.

HugifyOct 6, 20154 votes

Rek'sai Is getting so awful In soloQ tho :/

Hayaishi2Oct 5, 20153 votes

I thought you meant that the jungler role in general needed a nerf.

SwapShadowsOct 5, 20153 votes

don't wanna be the one that points out the obvious but Evelyn was nerfed due to solo Q reasons.

Having green wards null and void to a jungler is way too overpowered in solo Q where you are playing with strangers and not 4 other pros like in competitive.

Karn BishopOct 5, 201510 votes

your implying that people actually ward, I play vi also and might as well have invisibility for how often people ward.

SwapShadowsOct 5, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Karn Bishop,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7Lp1WEIH,comment-id=000c0000,timestamp=2015-10-05T23:06:16.630+0000)

your implying that people actually ward, I play vi also and might as well have invisibility for how often people ward.

Warding is one of the biggest things in league of legends.

Mast3rShakeOct 5, 20156 votes

So they nerf a champion because people are too cheap to buy pinks? There are plenty of champions that are strong in solo que and not as much in competitive play so why aren't those champions getting nerfed too?

I don't want to spend gold on armor items so will Riot nerf adc's next?

Aych PiiOct 6, 20153 votes

Okay, so you buy a pink ward. Evelynn ganks, and you back off in time because you saw her coming. She kills your pink. Want to avoid another gank? You'll have to back again, buy another pink, and put it down quickly because she will be back again soon. Evelynn just successfully forced you to back and spend 100 g, giving her laner an exp and gold advantage as well as forcing you off the map for a decent amount of time. That's a successful gank. And she didn't even have to touch you.

She's not absurdly strong but the nerfs are targeted at a place that won't hurt her overall power much, while also making it feel like she's actually vulnerable when out of mana. You won't even notice the difference the majority of the time, but if someone catches you with an empty mana bar they'll be able to punish you harder for it. This is a pretty healthy interaction.

3TWarriorOct 6, 20151 votes

compared to late game monsters and early game instakill champs? her job is to snowball the team to victory, bu the problem is, she can't deal all of her damage immediately

she can give the lane a minor gold advantage by forcing a back, but in reality, a junger that could score a kill and scale into late game and mid game is much more appreciated because eventually, even a 1000 gold lead (impossible if the jungler on your team decides to help) won't save a 4 vs 5 late game

Aych PiiOct 6, 20151 votes

She needs her damage spread out like that to balance out the fact that you almost never see her coming. Instead of coming out of stealth and killing you instantly, making her passive almost akin to a constant, self-refreshing rengar ult, she comes out of stealth and whittles you down while being very hard to out DPS and very hard to shake off. Even as it is she doesn't have too much trouble finding kills.

3TWarriorOct 9, 20151 votes

lol, early game she can attack someone who's at 30% with constant spam and so long as they run away from her or have flash or both, they will survive

though that may burn their summoner, it still doesn't change that she needs someone else's damage(including self-inflicted damage by over-extending) to have any hope of getting a kill early and mid, and by late, there's nothing she can do but splitpush

her job is to snowball other lanes, but she has a hard time doing that as it is

Aych PiiOct 9, 20151 votes

She can easily burst someone who's at 30%. They'd have to flash almost guaranteed, and they're not always going to have flash available.