Promos: Upvote to remove them, Downvote to keep them

Mast3rShake·7/14/2015, 4:19:45 AM·968 votes·55,693 views

Riot said they made promos because it makes you feel good when you win them, but their psychology on it is wrong.

Getting through promos is like surviving a gun shot wound. You don't feel good about it, you feel **relieved **you didn't die. Riot confuses feeling relieved with feeling good. When I go 0-100 LP I feel good enough. Promos need to be removed!

Upvote this post if you want them removed Downvote it if you like them and want them to stay

Leave a comment about your choice as well if you'd like :)

edit to Riot: 500 upvotes for a thread where your customer base is telling you that when they win promos they feel like they have survived being shot and you have no response...

279 Comments

Taintednight7/14/2015, 12:27:05 PM54 votes

[deleted]

WooBeeWoo7/14/2015, 6:01:01 PM38 votes

This is what I hate about promos... because of the way MMR works if you are winning you get matched with and against players of a higher rank. This means when you are Silver 1 trying for Gold you are almost always playing against Gold 5 or 4 players (in my case I tend to see Gold 3 players too) and when I lose I'm upset because silver players aren't keeping me in silver, gold players are... If I am playing at Gold level give me fucking gold don't make me prove I can beat a team of gold 4s so that I can be gold 5.... basically if your skill level is only gold 5 you have the hardest time ever getting there and tend to just stay silver and playing promos over and over and over.

CoolKnightST7/14/2015, 10:03:26 PM24 votes

They just need to remove promo's between divisions:

Only promo's between tiers (bronze, silver, gold, plat, diamond, master)
Promo's should be a best of 5, maybe a best of 7 for plat/diamond & a best of 9 for master
Between divisions you just need to go to 100 points to get promoted
In divisions IV-I ones you lose a game when having 0 points you get demoted to the devision below. The amount of points you recieve will depend on your mmr. If your mmr is a tier higher you won't get demoted. If your mmr is equal to the division you are in you start with 80 points. If your mmr is a tier lower you start with 0 points.
In division V ones you lose 3 games when you have 0 points & your mmr is lower than your current tier you get demoted.

TheGrandAlliance7/14/2015, 5:05:10 AM24 votes

**The problem isn't the promo existing... it is the mechanics that the MMR system uses which makes your promo a troll series. **

If they were simply to "fix" the promo system by not making it intentionally put you with the AFKERs or otherwise every time that would be nice. Or perhaps not put you on teams who MMR is "stacked" against you... that is placing you with ave MMR much lower then enemy team (for instance enemy has silver... you all bronze) thus forcing you to "carry" the match (good luck if your Support Main).

Other trolls include the people who clearly have toxic patterns who always end up on your teams on the promos... whereas outside are more evenly displaced. These can be either toxic chat; the "instalockers", the "pick order>win order so therefore IZ MIDZ/TOP" people. Basically anyone who engages in troll like behavior, even in small quantities, that end up costing a game.

Do they exist outside of promos? Of course they do. However for whatever reason (especially if you promo at non peak times) the propensity of them is far greater.

In other matters... you do need a promo system because otherwise the rankings would have no meaning. Who cares if you are Division 3 of something if it doesn't mean anything? Might as well have 1 super division per League like Challenger/Master and forget Divisions all together.

Alas... for many reasons I have given up on season 5. Worst season ever no doubt about it. Other seasons may had champion balance issues but at least these problems were transparent and known... not like the "mysterious" nature that is MMR.

EDIT: LoL new UI is finally coming... time to make an quick exit to the doors. If you insist upon playing Season 5 I suggest you stay away form Ranked for at least 2 weeks or be prepared to SUFFER GREATLY. Even if you like the new UI and are good with it... doesn't mean your troll team is.

Indeed it is so...

Seenan7/14/2015, 4:46:22 AM16 votes

I one time lost 4 promos in a row...Consecutively. Like, I lost promos, won the game to get into promos, lost...and so on until I just gave up on Ranked.

Who's stupid fucking idea was it to make the new mmr system that shifts your rank in placements around to what you were before in the prev season? It was way fucking off. A whole tier down.

We technically have to get 130 LP to move up a division, and >150 LP to move up a tier...? With losses being of higher value? Promos are a forced waste of time.

Klockwerk7/15/2015, 1:22:50 PM12 votes

The logic here is extremely flawed. I don't support promos or the league system but it is extremely fair. If you are a solo queued player and your MMR (Elo) is higher than your division you gain more LP than you lose. On top of this, if you are far above your division you will skip a division after completing promos. If your MMR is actually higher like some people say they are Silver I and facing Gold III players that is a side effect of the Gold III player likely having Gold IV MMR and you also having somewhere between Gold IV-III MMR. The system is fair, if you are not actually capable of defeating and competing with Gold III players, your gains will even out and you will eventually be playing Gold V and Silver I players to pass your promos. If you are seriously trying to climb the ladder you should be looking to improve your play not just hit Gold by any means necessary then stop. There's a reason it's a competitive ladder.

Personally, I'd like to add that I hate the League System as opposed to ELO system because it makes it more of a grind to play up to where you belong than if it was just MMR. I feel like once your MMR rises to that of two divisions above you should be instantly promoted or put into the promotion series equivalent to their MMR and notified of this.

Uiru7/14/2015, 10:59:17 PM10 votes

Bash yourself in the head with a hammer several times.

When you stop, you feel AMAZING.

This is promos.

Señor Karthus7/15/2015, 1:34:35 AM7 votes

me: Yay! 7 wins in a row! is at 99LP me: Yay! 8 wins in a row! gets 1Lp for 100 me: Yay 10 wins in a row! is at 0LP

Tribbles Foxfolk7/14/2015, 10:44:08 PM6 votes

{quoted}

Riot said they made promos because it makes you feel good when you do, but their psychology on it is wrong.

Getting through promos is like surviving a gun shot wound. You don't feel good about it, you feel **relieved **you didn't die. Riot confuses feeling relieved with feeling good. When I go 0-100 LP I feel good enough. Promos need to be removed!

Upvote this post if you want them removed Downvote it if you like them and want them to stay

Leave a comment about your choice as well if you'd like :)

Promos are held hostage by trolls, AFKers, feeders, and awful duo queues as it is. I don't see ANY negatives in removing Promos between divisions and just increasing the LP required to 120. If nothing else, add a 5-LP barrier (95-100) to immediately bypass promos and start at 0 LP of the next division/tier.

Riot, the promos are pointless now. People that are trying to climb the ladder are basically held hostage by trolls and at their mercy.

Robert Smith7/14/2015, 1:35:43 PM6 votes

If they removed promos I feel as though they have no reason to stop you from being able to immediately going back down too. You got 100 and start at zero. You lose the next one and bam back to the previous teir. Since they have mastered in place why not make it part of the promos. You lost the game but you had amazing objective control as the Jungler and have a lot of assist to get you A+, for that you don't lose anything. S+ would mean you gain some LP and anyone below a C means you lose the normal amount

Gorgannan7/14/2015, 11:51:00 PM5 votes

But you can't deny, there's a lot of fun in GETTING to your promos :^)

Because it takes 2-5 wins in a row to get to your promo, it should really be win 2 out of 4.

Fr4k7/14/2015, 5:51:58 PM5 votes

I completely agree. It's hard enough trying to get 100 LP with all the afk's and trolls. Promos just gives you unrealistic standards in my honest opinion. Because winning 2-3 games in a row after reaching our goal is just stressful. Plus the fact that if you don't win 2-3 games in a row then you pretty much have to start from scratch, and all of that hard work goes to waste. Even if the idea of removing promos isn't a good idea in Riot's eyes, at least don't make us lose all of our LP after earning it. If we do lose promos just make it so that at the very least we lose half the LP we earned.

The Hate Boat7/14/2015, 5:53:58 PM5 votes

Promos serve no purpose other than allowing for demotion (rewards) protection. If all you want to do is protect rewards, just have them based on TOP LP/MMR during the season. Any concerns about players screwing around after they've earned the reward are just as valid with the current system, where it's nearly impossible to demote from one tier's 5th division to the next tier down. Everything else you do (break players up into divisions, give out shiny badges, etc), can be done just as easily by MMR/LP as it is with a system that uses divisions.

On the other hand, promos do add a lot of bad things to ranked. They're a giant source of frustration and 'ladder anxiety', which Riot said they wanted to avoid. They're a game where Riot's LP system doesn't work, because all that matters is win/loss, not how much LP you gain. They're especially vulnerable to trolls, as dodging a promo game counts as a loss. They also form a barrier for a player to arrive at their "correct" division, which often feels really bad to the player, as they have to play against players in higher divisions, while they don't get to be in that division themself.

WeFlyNoLie7/15/2015, 8:15:39 PM4 votes

I feel like Promos would be less stressful if you ONLY had other players on your team that were in promos as well.

Then everybody will be on the same "Do or die, I need to win this" page. To be honest, I feel this should be 100% of games if you're playing ranked because its supposed to be a competitive environment, but that just doesn't happen.

This would be a welcome change in my book.

Mast3rShake7/15/2015, 3:31:11 AM4 votes

It really is this simple:

If you are regularly are wining 2/3 you climb, 1/3 you fall, and 1/2 you stay the same and that is where you belong.

There is no reason to complicate things. Promos create luck in an otherwise balanced system. Let me quickly explain. For every instance you get a troll/dc probability says your opponent will have a troll/dc one game too. This means that over time you will lose 50% of games because of a troll/dc and win 50% because of one so it balances out. Great! Now introduce promos. Promos means that if these random instances happen to you during a promo or two but to an opponent during a regular ranked game or two there is a significantly different effect on your ranked ladder climb. This is why promos are a bad thing. Promos literally can cause some players to have good luck and bad luck, where as without promos all players theoretically have the same amount of luck.

If I confused you, here is an example of what I am trying to say:

Two players both play four games, both starting in their promo series. Player 1: Game 1: Win Game 2: Loss Game 3: Gets a troll, loses game and promos Game 4: Other team gets a troll, he moves back up to 98 LP

Player 2: Game 1: Win Game 2: Loss Game 3: Other team gets a troll, wins game and promos Game 4: Gets a troll, loses game and stays at 0 LP in next division

In a promoless system both players would have been effected the same, going 2-2 and not moving anywhere on the ladder. However, Riot introduced an aspect of luck into their system, where player 1 got unlucky and the troll cost him his promo series causing him to stay in the same division and work back up to promos. Player 2 however got lucky, and got an easy win in his promos thanks to a troll on the other team. Skill-wise the players are the same, but because of Riot's promo system luck came into play.

tl;dr A promoless system is a system that through random probability over time adjusts itself when it comes to trolls/dc/ragers/etc and shows itself to be a fair system that best represents the skill of player. However, Riot created a system that actually inserts an aspect of luck into a system that is suppose to represent only skill. It baffles me and I wish a Red would explain why now knowing this (if they didn't before) they would continue to use this system.

CasterGilgamesh7/14/2015, 4:35:36 PM4 votes

what riot needs to fucking do is when a player is afk for more then 5 mins that match doesnt count towards a lose or lp or promo its very unfair to everyone for something that's not in our control

Twëek7/14/2015, 8:01:31 PM3 votes

Promos are the price we pay for not dropping immediately if you lose a game at 0 LP. I suppose you can if your MMR is very low, but it is true for the general case. As much as the series can be frustrating, it is a relief to know that I won't drop a division immediately if I have some bad luck or do poorly myself at 0-LP games.

In a system where hidden MMR is the only thing that really matters, just don't get so stressed about your series. Even if you go 1-2, that win isn't pointless. It will still have increased your MMR.

I get much less ladder anxiety when I go in thinking "I hope I can win this" from game to game rather than "ohgod ohgod I need to win this to win my series". If you get to your series once, you know you can get there again even if you lose it on the first go. This is coming from someone who had to try their series to Gold I a whopping 8 times last season.

Ice Cold Waz7/16/2015, 4:08:45 PM3 votes

Whats ridiculous about Promos is that you have to win to get into Promos.

For instance you don't have to win 2 out of 3 games to go from silver 5 to silver 4, you have to win 3 out of 4 games which is much harder. And who has a 75% win ratio? No one that's who, but you need to get over that hurdle and get lucky and you can't gradually work your way up.

Same between divisions you need to win 4 out of 6 games, not 3 out of 5. And who has a 66% win ratio in ranked? Very few people.

In conclusion because you need to win a certain number of games in a set, you can't move up gradually, you need to climb rapidly or get extremely lucky.

NERDSMASHER50007/18/2015, 8:35:22 PM3 votes

Remove them but drop a division instantly if you hit 0 LP

there you go

Troy2426218/30/2015, 9:08:23 PM3 votes

Are they removing this system in S6,...? They desperately need to.

PlanetWarwick12/4/2016, 5:23:48 PM2 votes

It's when you do everything right and get to your goal, then get shit on

SP Dodgecity2/17/2016, 10:06:46 PM2 votes

Yeah I kinda hate promos, like alot, I always feel depressed about them, i hate doing them and i hate the results, and no I didn't do bad. 7/3 and I still got sac tapped, with my eyes poked out by the promo system.

But Im Nunu4/12/2016, 1:57:03 AM2 votes

I think promos make it so that it's not really climbing a ladder but rather, climbing a ladder with some rungs taken out. It makes the skill level between divisions/ranks farther apart than if it wasn't there. Take it however you want.

RetroRage967/16/2015, 1:53:00 AM1 votes

What do you propose to change it?