Cassiopeia's balance has always been a RED HERRING. Yet people are still going on about her winrate

5G8Nri0B54··6 votes·940 views

Cassiopeia's balance has always been a RED HERRING as far as issues go. Anything that is UP can be buffed. Anything that is OP can be nerfed. Simple as that. Nobody gives a crap about whether some pros play her in seeding, or whether she appears in LCS.

The issue with her rework. Why her rework sucks. It has ALWAYS been about her gameplay and not her balance. This is the failure of Patch 4.21. It addressed nothing BUT her balance. It appealed to no one but Spikes who only cares about playing a champion that is OP.


So with that out of the way. Nerf her all you like Riot. But the only thing that matters in the end is whether she plays like she should or not. Whether her gameplay fits her. THAT is what matters in the end. Why? Because as I said in the very beginning, if Cassiopeia as a Poison mage is imbalanced, you can raise or lower her numbers as you see fit and make her balanced.

Are the Spikes unhappy? Then jack her winrate up to 54% again so they can flock in like sheeps. Cassiopeia's winrate, whether she is strong or weak, never have, and never will be an issue, because that is the EASIEST problem to fix.

17 Comments

futuresight233 votes

Around here, the term is freelo abusers.

5G8Nri0B543 votes

eh...I wish people switched to a different term now that ELO is no longer a thing. Now it's MMR! 100% identical to ELO in every way, except now you can not track it without a 3rd party program...

xJLx MCHammer2 votes

LMAO you still posting about her being reworked to what her original design idea was. Man you are one butt-hurt poster

Seriously, it's the numbers that are a big strong right now. I like her now, her focus on E is what she was design to do long ago and is doing it now. You don't like it TOOO BAD. Her winrate has increased and her PICKRATE. Complain all you want a rework that gets a champion to have 2-3% more on winrate, but increases her pick rate over 2x times is successful in my book

TheFrozenIsles2 votes

The trouble with all your post is you go on about her being a poison mage. The thing is i never saw her like that. I saw her as the snake champ. A lot of game have one. Doa has Medusa, Smite has Kukulan, Warcraft had nagas...ect. A lot of game had some sort of army or hero with snakes as a theme. To me she still work as a snake champ. So i'm happy with her.

If we are talking about poison mages. Then that would be Singed. If we are more talking about Dot's then that will be Swain. Yes his spell may not people what people think for normal dots but his Q and R are dot's to me.

5G8Nri0B543 votes

Singed isn't even a "mage" if you get what I mean (and neither is Teemo, surprised you didn't bring him up instead as he'd be closer), he's a tank more than anything. And for the "DoT" mage niche, Stashu's says Brand is supposed to be LoL's DoT mage hence why he initially moved the power away from her DoT.

But alright I can accept the concept of her being Snake Mage, Snakeman is my all time favourite Robot Master and I've always been a fan of snake-based characters. Now tell me wth her kit has anything to do with being a "snake mage". Tell me how playing like a Vietnam War Veteran firing an AK-47 fits the fantasy of a half-snake freak that Cassiopeia is. I'll let go of the fact that her Ultimate has nothing to do with being a Snake Mage as it has nothing to do with a Poison Mage either, and saying she's based off Medusa will be digging her hole even deeper since she has less to do with Medusa than either themes being contested.

But the fact of the matter is. Whether you like Cassiopeia's current state or not. She is still very incomplete and even Stashu admitted to it before 4.21 went live.

And even if you accept her as she currently is, you can not deny her current state is amateurishly handled. Okay, she now have a function that where hitting the enemy with 2 E's will amplify the shitty poison damage she inflicts. Okay, then where is the visual or markings to let both players know how many marks are on the target and that the target is taking amplified poison damage?

Or something even earlier. Okay poisoning a target fuels her Passive that even current Cass fans hate...why isn't there any animations or indicator that shows her gaining stacks faster than it passively does when she poisons an enemy champion?

You know if Riot really does provide us with a Snake champion I'd be all over it. Especially one that somehow incorporates constricting the opponent to death.

**PS - ** For Swain, you're thinking of his Q and E, not R...

TheFrozenIsles1 votes

No I see Singed as a tank mage. If you look at lolking his top three items are ROA, RCS and Seraph's embrace. All item you see more on mages then tanks. This is because his pass makes mana good on him. Throw Liandry's Torment on him and his poison hurt like hell.

First thing first. I did not say snake mage. I said snake champ. She is a snake champ do to looks( i dont have to point that out), her R being base off a very well now Snake monster(aka Medusa), her use of poison(many snake have it), her E give easy the idea of a snake striking fast with it fangs(some thing many people think of when think of snake s a striking one.) and I can bring up her skin ideas but those are sort of the point of skins. So i will not. To me those all make her a snake champ. Winch I like. I dont care if she a mag, ADC or tank I simple play her because I like snakes. Why I would be more happy with her being more of a boa. I dont mind her being the Black Mamba that she is today.

As for the amateurishly handled part. The thing I about that is i hear that ever time they rework a champ. Hell this past week or two that is all i heard when I see the word assassins.

No I mean R as well.I see it sort of as a AOE DOT as he will keep damage up to three enemy for ever second he has it on and they are in range. So to me that is a DOT.

P.s. I now my word placement and spelling sucks.

Mathbalnase2 votes

Roles are determined by play patterns, not by item purchases.

A 'Snake Champ' should probably be biting enemies, not throwing torso-sized fangs at them. A 'Snake Champ' should probably not be throwing clouds of poisonous gasses that persist in the environment to poison her enemies. Snakes often have venom. They very rarely have poison.

5G8Nri0B542 votes

...are you on a mobile or something? 0.o

Don't be afraid to admit it, my posts look like shit too when I type on my mobile while on a shaking sky train. In fact, all those gigantic walls of posts that people recognize me for...are all wall of posts specifically because I wanted to kill time while on a sky train.

No I see Singed as a tank mage. If you look at lolking his top three items are ROA, RCS and Seraph's embrace. All item you see more on mages then tanks. This is because his pass makes mana good on him. Throw Liandry's Torment on him and his poison hurt like hell.

No, you see, that's not what makes a champion a mage. Singed builds all those magical items because his ratios and kit dictates it. HOWEVER, he is not a "mage". His play pattern is nothing like a mage. His fantasy is nothing like a mage.

If you want to find a "mage" equivalent of Singed, look for Ziggs. Obviously there are overlaps between theme and role. For instance, Ezreal may be an ADC, but he could just as easily have been conceived as a mage. Ziggs is obviously a mage, Riot could just as easily have given him an ADC kit if you get what I mean.

HOWEVER, someone like Singed will never be a "mage" because that's just not a part of his artistic design. Let's put this another way, Warwick (used to...) and Maokai can build AP...does that make them a "mage". No, for the exact same aesthetic and patterned reasons.

No I mean R as well.I see it sort of as a AOE DOT as he will keep damage up to three enemy for ever second he has it on and they are in range. So to me that is a DOT.

Wait...wat. No, Cass's R is a very conditional cone nuke that either slows or stuns. Nothing about it is remotely DoT...

First thing first. I did not say snake mage. I said snake champ.

Okay, this I will 100% disagree with, not the part about what you said, but that she is a snake champ than a snake mage.

Anyways it's still poorly handled. For one thing, the moment she starts shooting those gigantic fangs like a machine gun is the moment any fantasy of a snake OR poison mage is immediately killed.

For one thing, I can tell you from personal expereince that snakes don't try to bite you 100 times else that kinda defeats the entire point of their venom. When they do attempt multiple bites, it's because they're constantly failing to inject any venom or the venom isn't doing anything at all (mongoose and possums)

As for the amateurishly handled part. The thing I about that is i hear that ever time they rework a champ. Hell this past week or two that is all i heard when I see the word assassins.

...paraphrase please. I think there are words missing here and there that would have made this sentence easier to understand...

xJLx MCHammer1 votes

^hasn't played on ranked, talks about ELO. yup

5G8Nri0B543 votes

^ Silver 2 trying to talk big to a Gold.

Gold itself is hardly an achievement, but to be even LOWER than a Gold? And trying to talk shit as someone in your position?

xJLx MCHammer1 votes

She was never a Poison mage The idea behind her design was that she would POISON her target so she can spam her fangs a lot like a snake/medusa(bow?) would. The poison wasn't the main part of her kit, it was there to unlock her main potential .

xJLx MCHammer1 votes

^ no I listen to Diamond 1 players, not Gold V

futuresight231 votes

Singed is probably an AP bruiser.

I do figure that Cassiopeia fits into a Medusa motif most clearly in terms of having both attributes of a snake and woman, while being able to turn people into stone (with her ult). This doesn't have anything to do with what her gameplay patterns could be in terms of whether she is a poison mage that relies on dots, or an AP marksman that uses poison to set up her damage combos.

5G8Nri0B541 votes

My only issue with her being a "Medusa Champion" is that it's mostly concentrated solely on her R, which, yes is very Medusa, it's just that...that's it. And if Riot was really going for the Medusa theme then that's one hell of an half-assed job.

She's closer to a generic lamia who can have any hundred of different traits depending on the story-teller. Whereas she's missing a lot of what makes Medusa...Medusa. The hair, the rather...uncomfortable...backstory.

I'd love for there to be a Medusa champion, one that really capitalizes on the snake hair (autonomous attack serpents tethered to the champion?), but it isn't Cassiopeia with the current state she's in.

futuresight231 votes

As to what FrozenIsles was trying to say, I think was along the lines of, everytime there has been a rework on a champion or their abilities have been changed, there has been a lot of complaining on the forums about how the rework was handled. No matter how good the rework was or how bad the original kit they were reworking was (I am looking at you Sion).

5G8Nri0B542 votes

There's a distinction between what kind of criticism champions can get. For instance, Azir got a LOT of shit...people still love him. Why? Because the shit he got stems from how unplayable buggy he is, nothing has to do with whether he fullfills his fantasy or whether he is a bird emperor man or not. Now people are pissed that he may or may not be OP, but even then those are different issues to Cassiopeia.

As for Sion...the only criticisms I remember ever seeing, and trust me I've been following, is

a) His shitty base health

and

b) How much he sucked

Both are also very simple things to rectify and completely different from Cassiopeia's issues. Cassiopeia's is much more worrying because her issue are much harder to fix than Sion's.

Worse, Cassiopeia was in a far better place than Sion was, all Stashu did was stir things up.

Know what the good thing about those two champions are?

Upon release, they both genuinely suck hard for their own respective reasons...BUT a lot of people played them a lot, a lot more than Cassiopeia or many more average champions. They play those champions despite their suckage.

Cassiopeia? Her playrate is low even after she became OP. Her playrate has only slightly risen as of late 100% because of "muh 54% winratez"

Biooutbreak1 votes

it's always been my opinion that after her rework, cass's gameplay patterns are much healthier for the game. not anything about numbers, ratios or passives, just how much healthier the play pattern is compared to how it was. it's not even about being OP or UP, bad or broken, her crime was making a non interactive lane.

counterplay is big deal (and should be) for champs in league. it gives satisfaction for both making huge plays and countering huge plays. the problem with cass before is that with q and w maxxing, you took out all interactivity in lane. land q? speed up and run away. land w? slow them and run away. miss? run away. because of her poison ratios, it was not only doable, but a viable strategy (especially in certain matchups) to where you simply poke them down till the enemy laner either had to back or stay and die.

we can see that in the changes that they wanted to have counterplay be more apart of cass's kit, and all things considered the answer was already in her kit. by making E her damage and Q/W the activator for E, and making that the only play pattern for cass, it makes laning healthier and her kit more cohesive.

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