Looking to counterbalance Lord Dominik's + BotRK

Spaceman5pff··1 votes·901 views

Seeing as tanks currently are no tankier than bruisers, and S6 is bringing in a good few Anti-Tank items alongside items that greatly buff pre-existing antitank power, I think we need a countermeasure that is optimized for champions building FULL tank.

What I am thinking is an item something along the lines of: TITANS BREASTPLATE -Cost: Somewhere between 2750 and 3000 gold? Up for discussion. -400 HP -50 Armor -UNIQUE Passive: Titan- Reduce all incoming % HP Damage by X% for every X Bonus armor / mr you have -UNIQUE Passive: The Bigger They Are- Gain X Bonus HP for every 100 HP beyond 3000. --OR-- -UNIQUE Active: Bracing- Shield yourself for (flat amount) + X per every X Bonus armor / mr you have The Active is not super important to the identity of this item. It is, to me, a cool idea; The item has a solid identity without it however, so if it would be overbearing then it can just go away. The trick with this item would be fine tuning the numbers, else it work too well with tanks that have % Damage reductions. Also, the second passive (The Bigger They Are), is a non-essential to the item. I think that without a second Unique property, the item would feel underwhelming for such a niche purchase, but that having both is massive overkill. IMPORTANT NOTE: This item does not mitigate % HP True damage. Whilst they annoy me endlessly, there is a place for all you Vayne mains. So, what think you, fellow summoners? Vote on if it seems like a good idea, and comment about balance suggestions and extra passive vs having that active!

5 Comments

Spaceman5pff1 votes

I realize after posting that this may be better suited to the concept and creations category. My apologies.

Spaceman5pff1 votes

If you leave a no vote, please explain why? If you don't I just assume that you can't kite and as a result cannot stand tanks.

Zair Umbras1 votes

Tanks do not need anymore buffs.... Trust me... People keep thinking the 15% from Lord Dominikk's is going to be game breaking when in reality, tanks have base armors ranging from 80-100 and Lw no longer reduces those bases. Even if a Yasuo has his ult and Lord Dominikk's with the 7% from the new masteries, his attacks won't be able to ignore Ninja Tabi, Randuin's, or the 80 (40% reduc) to 100 (50% reduc) base armor of a tank.

Seriously. With how IE and BT both lost AD while BotRK is losing 2% current health per AA, tanks are going to be FINE. Completely. And. Utterly. Fine. I've already tested tanks and trust me, this 'ADC meta' that people complain about isn't going to happen. ADCs have good early games now and worse late games with big hits to their end game base AD and less AD from items on top of less overall attack speed since PD was nerfed from 50% to 40% while Shiv was nerfed to 35%. Less attack speed, less AD, and they can't ignore your base armors anymore PLUS the new LW doesn't scale well with Armor Reducs like Cleaver since Cleaver's 30%'s negative armor takes off of the bonus armor... which is what the LW hits...

Running the numbers, let's say you have 200 bonus armor, 100 base. As Rammus. Cleaver reduces your armor by 90, so your 200 bonus just became 110. then the 40% from LW, which is another 44 reduc, meaning you're at 166 total armor. With just the LW, you'd have reduced their armor by 80, bringing them down to 220. Cleaver is 210. Well, 166 is about 62%. 210 is 67.7%, and 220 is 68.75%.

Beeeeefooooooooore, you'd take that 210 after Cleaver and reduce it to 136. 136 is 57.6% reduction.

The 15% on Dominikk's is to compensate for how much AD they've lost on top of the free 300 health or 4-8% reduction you can get from the defensive tree as well as your base of 40-50% reduction can't be touch unless the enemy has flat ArP, which ADCs can't afford to budget in when they have to get IE->AS/Crit->LS->Lord Domikk's or Cleaver->Defensive. Now, an Assassin could easily go Cleaver, Youmuu's, and Maw with 19 ArP for a total of 49 flat ArP, going up to 52-57 based on level with the new mastery on top of the 30% from Cleaver and maybe the Lord Dominikk's as well. That's 4 items already though, so your last would have to be the Hydra, BotRK, or Death's Dance you got earlier.

Spaceman5pff1 votes

So in summation (as far as tanks go), this preseason will buff resistance stacking tanks (Rammus, Malphite) While nerfing health stackers (Mundo, Volibear)? My concern stems in part from the changes, but mainly from how appallingly weak tanks are currently on live, with no more than a few champs left capable of true tanking. I do not have PBE Access, so i was making my judgement based on my personal best understanding of the numbers. Thank you for your feedback!

Zair Umbras1 votes

No. It's a buff across the board since a Health Tank will still have, say, Ninja Tabi and might pick up a Randuin's, which gives you 90 armor and reduces AA's by 10% and crits by ANOTHER 10% on top of their 85ish armor that's providing about 40ish% reduction.

Since MR is also being buffed on items like Visage and Banshee's, they won't need much more than just the Visage, which is a common item on Mundo, Voli, and such. Heck, it's a common item on anyone with sustain. It's up to 70 base MR. Sunfire and Randuin's are also gaining 50 health while you can get 300 health or 4-8% (If you're near allies, it's 8%) reduction. Then of course BotRK is being nerfed to 6% current health from 8%, Kog's W has lost it's flat 8% in favor of 1.25% per 100 AD, which even with the double attack speed would be a nerf until you had 300 AD, which you won't until your third or 4th item since first item is, as always, going to be the BotRK since you double all attack speed. From there, you'd go IE or your AS/Crit then the other and you'd have maybe 200-250 AD, so you're still not doing much % health, especially since 70 MR+the 30-50 base is over 100 MR, totaling 50% reduction, so he can do maybe 1% of your max health, about 3% per sec. Not too much.

Now, Vayne got buffed to tank out tanks, but her early game took a nasty hit with the flat true damage being removed and her scaling AD being cut in half, a loss of AD after about level 4. She gained 5 AD, losing about 1.6 AD per level, meaning after about 3ish levels, she'll be at -less- AD, plus all other ADC's are getting buffs to their early, so she'll be super easy to dumpster on for days in lane and snowball hard.

Resistance stackers are sort of a nerf since base LW is now 40%, up from 35%, and can max at 47% of bonus where as the old one maxed at 39%.

Also, since Lord Dominikk's gives 15% just because some one is 500 health more than you, it won't matter if the tank has 2.5k or 5k health, it'll still be 15%.

Also, for people who actually think the GW wounds thing will hurt Mundo and Voli... Well, Mundo maxes at 5% of max health per sec for 12s. He'll always have a visage, so he'll end up at 120% regen, which is the only reason why Riot is fine with GW returning at 50%. Currently on live, that 50% turns the 120% into 60%. Now, it turns the 120% in 72%. A gain of 12%. 60% of the 60% health is 36% max, 72% of it is 43.2%. You went from a loss of 24% to a loss of 18%. max health. While it's more common now late game, IGNITE and Nomicon which are common pick ups against these champs will be WEAKER. Plus a Soraka can still press W on you since GW only affects self healing like Health Regen, Mundo's R, and Life Steal, not outside healing like Soraka, Nami, etc. It's a buff to their laning phases since you're forcing your enemy to get Ignite, Nomicon, or waste 800g on a low stat item just to be able to duel you in lane while you get to laugh at them. Hard. Most bruisers wouldn't want Mortal Reminder on top of that, so they'd have to sell it later on for actual beef so the ADC or Assassin mid can give up 15% damage for reducing your regen.

On top of that... at max level, you're still gaining 3.6% of your max health every second and with the usual 5k health on Mundo, that's 180 per sec instead of 300, pre Visage though that's 250. Visage gives a lot that people take for granted when the champs are balanced prior to visage. Honestly, with Visage and GW being common items now, stuff is going to get hectic when it comes to balancing the terror that is Vlad and make it hard to balance out Mundo later on.

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