Tank Rework Proposals

Bârd·Feb 1, 2017·21 votes·2,263 views

Needs to have a strong withering effect to build on his lore. Make him a tank who is durable not so much due to pure stats, but because he makes his enemies too weak to kill him. Needs his basic spells to feel more impactful. Maybe make his Q work like a homing version of Daisy's knockup with a shorter duration, and make his W only apply to one hit, but do more damage and cleave. Needs a new ultimate; his current one feels like a basic ability. It's powerful, but it's also low impact and takes a spot that could be used for something much cooler. Probably more suited to a VGU, but I'll put him here anyways. This should focus on Willump, the brutal Yeti with a soft spot for Nunu, ripping people to shreds and chilling them to protect his rider. He should be renamed to Willump. Leave the boar lady alone (mostly). She is honestly one of the best designs out of the tanks, so I am worried that she is going to get reworked again. Her passive could use some work though (even then, only maybe). The spirit sword is a cool mechanic, but it just doesn't make sense on Shen. Don't just make him tanky via stats, but make him hard to kill because Shen is a flipping NINJA.

56 Comments

Big LincolnFeb 1, 201712 votes

you know what they should do with sejuani?

make her thighs more visible

BârdFeb 1, 20175 votes

Well, I won't object to more thighs.

Big LincolnFeb 1, 20171 votes

and make her a juggernaut hehe

BârdFeb 1, 20174 votes

Wait, if thighs make a Juggernaut...

Is Syndra getting looked at?

Valor BotFeb 1, 20176 votes

Camille would be Queen Juggernaut in that case.

Big LincolnFeb 1, 20171 votes

those juggernauts are fake

TequilaZombieFeb 2, 20171 votes

The only fake Juggernauts are residing in MF's chest. There's no way those can be real!

Darth Pixy MisaFeb 2, 20171 votes

{quoted}

The only fake Juggernauts are residing in MF's chest. There's no way those can be real!

I wonder if there are magical plastic surgeons in Runeterra?

It would suck if MF's looks are just a glamor and she actually looks like Emperor Palpatine...

LankPantsFeb 1, 20171 votes

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/0/00/Sejuani_TraditionalSkin.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160518200741

Still best skin.

Big LincolnFeb 2, 20171 votes

t h i c c

THE RlVER KlNGFeb 2, 20177 votes

TahmKench revert the E changes in 6.13 that gutted him.

Rammus make him THE anti-auto-attack champion that counters AD like a god but is hurt by spells.

Sion play up his thematic as the AD caster tank that isn't a juggernaut, but don't ruin him like Vel.

Skarner get rid of his spires and give him a useful passive.

Zac cement him as the THE long-range ganker but tone down his damage.

agbudarFeb 2, 20172 votes

TahmKench is not gutted idk what people consider gutted but this fish is alive and kicking Rammus properly build he already is. item 3068 item 3047 item 3075 item 3143 item 3102 item 3001 Sion most people like him the way he is dont think riot will look at him Skarner agreed Zac again agreed

THE RlVER KlNGFeb 2, 20172 votes

He's a bottom tier-support, can't jungle, and his top is the worse its ever been.

agbudarFeb 2, 20171 votes

he needs love taps for sure the fact that 125+ mains can barely manage a 50% win rate is not good

BârdFeb 2, 20174 votes

I think you mean Rammus item 3089 item 3100 item 3285 item 3135 item 3157 item 3020

you cant auto me if you are dead

agbudarFeb 2, 20171 votes

250% ap ratio ults are op

Darth Pixy MisaFeb 1, 20172 votes

Since Vanguards are initiators, this group would be :

Sejuani Malphite Maokai Leona Amumu Chogath Gragas Gnar Nautilus Rammus RekSai Shen Sion Zac

IMO here is what should be done:

Relic shield, Targon's, and FOTM need a major sustain boost.

Sejuani Her clear is poor and she suffered badly from the cinderhulk reprisals. She can still engage, but she is a tier 2 jungle that is on the way down because of the recent jungle changes. She needs a small buff to help clear better Why not revert the R nerfs, give her the 1.5 / 1.75 / 2 sec freeze back.

Imo misery is playing this guy in lane, Malphite needs a buff to help him have some laneing presence, how is he suppose to deal with Illaoi, or Poppy?

Maokai Maokai is the tier 1 tank, either leave him alone or nerf his damage a bit.

Leona Leona has seen better days, the previous rework really hurt her. As a melee support champ she has to deal with Zyra, and Malph spam now. Lets be honest incandescence is silly. IMO give Eclipse a major buff so that when used Skills and AAs almost harmlessly bounces off her for the 3 sec it is on. Leona could have her art updated a bit too.

Amumu Amumu is the Bane of the lower divisions, Since season 4 he has received 2 small buffs. IMO buff his Physical reduction it is the least riot could do with all these % damage multipliers in the new masterys. Maby give him a clear boost.

Chogath Cho is powerfull but out of meta. IMo a main problem with Cho is that players see him and think "Kill Him With Fire!" Of all the tanks here, Cho has the highest average damage received on champion.gg. I mean he gets a lot of attention for what he does. Cho is a big target too so he cant really dodge anything. When you consider how Shaq 1 stride is several of mine, and he has like 2 feet of height on me, should cho get a speed increase with his size increase? What if on Cho's R he gets 4% damage reduction, that goes up 2% for each feast stack?

Gragas I say Gragas is still pretty strong, but his minions killed average is in the bottom 5 of junglers. He might need a small buff to help him clear camps.

Gnar I find Gnar fun to play sometimes, Gnar seems fine, not too strong, not weak, for how he is i wish he was doing better that 46% win rate. I imagine if the Gnar player base was a dedicated as the Kayle players he would be in the 51% range.

Nautilus Nautlus is a Pick #2 for tanks in LCS right now. Ppl say that Naut is squishier and has more CC than Maokai. Main issue i have is that Naut has the 4th lowest average damage delt for a top laner

Rammus Rammus is a fun champ and i really like his new lore. IMO Riot should do more to help Rammus be our Raid Boss in the jungle. Rammus needs to be a bad ass, and he could nes some Buffs to help make him that Speed ball of doom that comes out of the jungle and makes a impact. About half the time Defensive Ball Curl can be up, Instead of just dealing magic damage when someone AAs Rammus, what W reflects 25% the damage from spells and AAs back at his opponents? Why does Rammus have AP ratios that he never uses On Q and R?

RekSai Rek'sai is so weak now when i compare him to how he was a year ago, I wish he had more sustain and did more damage. But Riot says that tremor sense is too powerful and he cant be buffed..............

Shen Shen sees regular LCS play and is in a healthy state from what i see, i dont have him, and i dont play Shen.

Sion I like Sion, He is still pretty strong, but i would like it if the nerfs on his shield and his roar were rolled back a bit i mean everyone should agree these nerfs were a Riot over-reaction to the cinderhulk meta.

Zac Zac takes a lot of damage being 2nd place to Cho in damage recieved, a lot of this is because of how he dives ppl and gets focused, but other wise is fine and is a pretty healthy champ

LankPantsFeb 2, 20171 votes

Cho has the highest average damage received on champion.gg.

Yep, he has 900 more HP to play with than other tanks do. That'll make you take more damage.

AlienPrimateFeb 2, 20171 votes

I don't understand how naut can have the 4th lowest average damage in top. I typically deal the most damage or close to the top player on my team with him top lane. Just build rod of ages after the first tank item to counter the enemy top laner and his damage is rather high.

General TherittFeb 2, 20172 votes

RekSai is a female [slayer-pantheon-popcorn] Just food for thought. And a fact. And Cho is getting a buff where his stacks wont fall off on death, are infinite, and will only work if he executes enemies, rewarding him for getting lots of kills or single opponent kills with ult. Tbh he's pretty fair rn, just his ult needed some working. Leona is still plenty good too. The problem is that mage supports are just DECIMATING botlane rn.

BârdFeb 2, 20172 votes

They mentioned that they were going to be giving Rek'sai a small rework to make her into a fighter instead of a pure tank.

Nerfs to unburrow and buffs to her Q.

Lord GalvatronFeb 2, 20171 votes

Few things, Rek is a girl (void queen). Sion is awesome but super slow which makes him impossible to play top in this meta. Gnar is a joke because he has so much counterplay and you can't control mini to mega. His duality makes it so you have to sit back as mini and frontline as soon as you have mega. Not a great thing if you want a consistent tank. Shen was played comp. literally just because of his R (they nerfed it and no one looked at him again).

Darth Pixy MisaFeb 2, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Goon Platoon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=70Afbq2W,comment-id=00050003,timestamp=2017-02-02T17:01:48.970+0000)

Few things, Rek is a girl (void queen). Sion is awesome but super slow which makes him impossible to play top in this meta. Gnar is a joke because he has so much counterplay and you can't control mini to mega. His duality makes it so you have to sit back as mini and frontline as soon as you have mega. Not a great thing if you want a consistent tank. Shen was played comp. literally just because of his R (they nerfed it and no one looked at him again).

I always refer to Rek'sai as a Guy i dont know why...

Gnar is fun to play, and Gnar counters Maokai if you know how to play Gnar right IMO.

Shen has been Played in LCS in both EU and NA Every week so far..

Lord GalvatronFeb 2, 20171 votes

Once you play against other people, you will realize that Gnar is good until the enemy laner buys one item and if you didn't get a lead you basically auto-lose the game. Mao needs to buy Sunfire and after landing phase you don't do anything to him. I was referring to last years LCS, tons of nerfs to other top laners came out after and in LCS (now) with 1st tower prio. every game requires a 3rd person to come bot ASAP.

agbudarFeb 2, 20172 votes

Sejuani yea i prefer riot not touch her.

besides she already has been looked at once, other tanks need it more anyway.

Gosh DarnFeb 2, 20172 votes

Sejuani needs a slight rebalancing, but her abilities are perfect. Slightly better early clears, maybe W has a lower cooldown earlier or deals bonus damage to monsters, and then maybe slightly weaker W lategame. She has one of the worst clears in the entire game right now.

LankPantsFeb 3, 20171 votes

Slightly better early clears, maybe W has a lower cooldown earlier or deals bonus damage to monsters, and then maybe slightly weaker W lategame.

Her W shouldn't be nerfed lategame, she's meant to be a lategame scaling champ. I'm fine with her clears being kinda bad as long as she actually gets to scale.

I think Sejuani would benefit from systematic changes to tanks enough to not really need to touch her. She needs the same thing as all tanks need, LDR removed from the game. It's not OK that ADCs get to make armour completely worthless in the late game and I think the rework is guaranteed to fail if Riot don't look at the LW items.

StoryDuckFeb 2, 20172 votes

Leona Hi. I would argue that Leona is in desperate need of some work. Perhaps not a major rework but something meaningful. I would probably start with a new passive.

Valor BotFeb 1, 20171 votes

I'm pretty excited to see what strategic niche they'll be giving each tank in the update. It's going to be difficult, because most of 'em do more or less the same things (dash in -> cc entire enemy team -> deal AoE damage). Hopefully they'll do these characters justice and find something fun and thematically appropriate for each one.

I think the only one with a clear niche is Shen, who's picked for his global presence/save potential. The other ones seem to be up in the air a bit.

BârdFeb 1, 20172 votes

They'll have to alter their kits to fit their lore, I think.

Amumu afflicts anyone he touches with a curse that causes them to quickly die of a horrible withering disease. Maybe replace his current passive with something like that. Malphite feels like an angry, walking mountain when his ult is up. That fantasy needs to translate to his basic spells. Maokai is a tree given sentience against his will from magic that has sapped into his body. So, maybe an ultimate that somehow saps the energy from enemies (maybe every time an enemy spell is cast in an area, all allies in that area get a heal and all enemies take some damage). Nunu is fucking brutal in his lore. In game, all he does is walk around, eat creeps, and throw snowballs. Seriously, this guy needs the most work out of all of them. Sejuani delivers on her theme well enough, with some pretty good gameplay to boot. She should be a minor rework at most, maybe on the same level as Twitch in the assassin update. Shen is a ninja. He currently does his ninja duties by being a wall of meat. This does not seem very ninja-like to me.

Glory ln DeathFeb 2, 20171 votes

Perhaps Amumu's passive could be reworked to include his current W. When he auto attacks a unit, they are swallowed by Despair and begin crying, damaging themselves and nearby allies for 2 seconds.

BârdFeb 2, 20171 votes

What if his W was changed into a passive ability (with ranks, like Teemo E)?

Every time Amumu gets hit, he starts crying uncontrollably.

LaçezFeb 2, 20171 votes

I just don't wanna feel as though I'm getting one shot by tanks and can't do anything because they have the title of a "tank". Make offence less viable so they actually tank Rather than do really well in both damage and being a tank, i.e Really low scaling with AD / AP and decent scaling with defensive builds as their items are relatively cheap and they hit their respective power spikes too early into the game it seems.

RalanrFeb 2, 20171 votes

They actually do have low scalings.

ÐelofashtFeb 2, 20171 votes

Maybe instead of Shen just doing more damage with Q, which feels kind of boring. . . perhaps he could get a reactivate on it to perform a log trick, teleporting back to his sword location (leash ranged, no more than 1k range). Then he'd feel like a Ninja more, and have some sort of Ninja like defense and mobility. The current damage might need to be readjusted given the new power of mobility and outplay potential he would gain from such a skill.

Ferus and FerrumFeb 2, 20173 votes

Shen would have even less damage then, making his already minimal threat in teamfights non-existent. Anyone with refillable can outsustain shen damage post-6

Also what you're suggesting is basically zed w, though while interesting enough, has already been done.

A more simple change could be that shen's normal q damage should deal the same % max health damage it does, and his empowered q should deal a percentage of Shen's max health as damage, increasing his synergy with his optimal build paths and allowing him some dueling potential with champions that arent tanks. If the damage with shen's max health scaling is too high, it can be tuned down or changed to % bonus health.

I would see this as a much healthier change, and give access to a decent lever to balance shen with, while also justifying his terrible base health and other stats. I mean currently shen q still scales off of AP. AP shen used to be a thing when his Q was a point click damage ability with sustain and all of his abilities scaled off of AP. But now no one builds it on him so the scaling goes completely to waste locking q damage away behind a stat no one builds anymore without being brain damaged.

ÐelofashtFeb 2, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Shen would have even less damage then, making his already minimal threat in teamfights non-existent. Anyone with refillable can outsustain shen damage post-6

Also what you're suggesting is basically zed w, though while interesting enough, has already been done.

A more simple change could be that shen's normal q damage should deal the same % max health damage it does, and his empowered q should deal a percentage of Shen's max health as damage, increasing his synergy with his optimal build paths and allowing him some dueling potential with champions that arent tanks. If the damage with shen's max health scaling is too high, it can be tuned down or changed to % bonus health.

I would see this as a much healthier change, and give access to a decent lever to balance shen with, while also justifying his terrible base health and other stats. I mean currently shen q still scales off of AP. AP shen used to be a thing when his Q was a point click damage ability with sustain and all of his abilities scaled off of AP. But now no one builds it on him so the scaling goes completely to waste locking q damage away behind a stat no one builds anymore without being brain damaged.

I DO see the comparison with Zed's W in that it's a 'port, but it's not at all the same kind of mechanic since Shen's sword cannot be placed forward like Zed's Shadow can. It's always dragged behind him, or pulled to his current location. As for dueling potential. . . he's a tank, he shouldn't be focused around dueling, but surviving, and my proposed Log Trick idea is just more survivability, yes at the cost of damage, but it's really not a necessary thing on him anyhow and he's not really struggling in damage from Q as it is even. Furthermore the proposed added skill gives him another way to proc his passive further increasing his survivability. His dueling potential comes completely from his ability to survive and use shielding and active mitigation to outplay his opponent, this provides him another tool to do that. With such a skill he also gains more capability to outplay and adjust positioning actively to create even more opportunities for plays. All Shen needs to do to win in trades is use his skills frequently and auto attack. If damage needs to be added it really shouldn't be all in his Q, the W could generate a field that increases damage to opponents that Shen hits within it for instance. That would provide a form of counterplay to him, just putting all Shen's damage in Q feels bland and boring.

General TherittFeb 2, 20171 votes

Why would you give an extremely aggressive laning tank the ability to get out of fights when its necessary for him to be the frontline in the first place? Shen's entire kit has aways been for lane aggression. While yes, his current Q is drab and needs tuning, its what makes him. You're a manaless tank with not only % HP MAGIC DAMAGE (magic is something tanks cannot optimize against easily), but a dash that applies a target pull forcing them to auto you with an auto cancel. That alone is MASSIVE and worth a ton in terms of usefulness. Your idea just promotes shen to acting like a coward and repositioning into his backline, and while helpful, doesn't make sense. Shen is rewarded for positioning, his ult alone says that. You get to free teleport. the aforementioned "damage zone" also isn't a solution. If that were true, then you would just pick Swain because you already have tankiness and you can just add to damage amplification. Shen's Q is key to his kit because it allows him to reposition his sword for key fights, while simultaneously allowing him to aim for tanks so they can't fight him. What you're giving him is a move that not only doesn't make sense with his thematic of a team player tank-ninja, but actually hurts him because he should be frontlining.

Ferus and FerrumFeb 2, 20171 votes

I agree that tanks shouldn't do insane damage for various reasons, (see poppy) but Shen has always been marketed to the player as a splitpush tank. WIth no aoe waveclear that means he's going to spend an eternity clearing and shoving add to that a lack of damage and you just have a shit champion. Now shen isn't supposed to be great at clearing waves because he could always shove you in and tp with no threat of others following him or stopping him, however with the way he is now, shen is more of a liability than an asset. His ability to instantly assist people is what got his damage nerfed in the first place, though competitive play seems to be the only place he shines.

Shen is supposed to do damage. That's why his q does % health, basically comes off of cooldown after you use all 3 hits, and refunds it's entire energy cost if you're landing all the hits. It rewards his positioning as a tank, yes when he can slow multiple people in a teamfight. But if teamfighting is all shen gets to look forward to people are just going to choose other champions that don't lose or go even in every lane.

PROJECT KatarìnaFeb 2, 20171 votes

Leona Change her passive and allow her to be able to solo lane well

VeltoxFeb 2, 20172 votes

Did you ever face ad Leona ? She is terrifying.

PROJECT KatarìnaFeb 2, 20171 votes

No but I play her AP

BârdFeb 2, 20174 votes

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/eHgNXBP_Jwc/maxresdefault.jpg http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/36/3660af52b0e238e9021351c555e0528042ea5127e369917277be569ffaed0aad.jpg http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/946/399/36d.jpg

SpoofghoulFeb 2, 20171 votes

Sion

Better base stats, idk buff his regen or something, and his base health

can use summoners during passive

better ap scaling on his abilties to increase build variety, maybe even add one to his ult

Oh and when you ping his portrait it should say undead instead of alive

i guess thats all i want for my bro sion

RalanrFeb 2, 20173 votes

Personally I just want his base MS in his passive to not be slower than his MS when alive and for him to not be incorporeal when charging his Q.

SpoofghoulFeb 3, 20171 votes

then again you can play around being incorporeal by dropping axes early and your allies can use it too ^^

ArakadiaFeb 3, 20171 votes

Those are flat out buffs. Thats not what a class update is for.

Teridax68Feb 3, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Needs to have a strong withering effect to build on his lore. Make him a tank who is durable not so much due to pure stats, but because he makes his enemies too weak to kill him.

If there's anyone suited to becoming a debuff tank, it would be Amumu, for the very reasons you mentioned. I love his hand grenade playstyle, and I hope it stays, but I also think that, like many other tanks, his follow-up mostly consists of just running around and pressing E, and just not really feeling like a tank. I'd like to see his W and E change into spells that would let his presence wither enemies and mitigate their power one way or another, though hopefully in a ways that would be both visible and fun for everyone, something Riot hasn't yet done successfully with debuffs (whether debuffs can be made fun at all is also a concern).

{quoted}

Needs his basic spells to feel more impactful. Maybe make his Q work like a homing version of Daisy's knockup with a shorter duration, and make his W only apply to one hit, but do more damage and cleave.

I agree with this, Malphite's basic abilities mostly feel like filler, even after a mini-update that significantly improved his W. His ult's extremely powerful, and I feel he should keep that, but he should also be able do do cool stuff in-between: a big problem with his current basic abilities, for example, is how reliable they all are, and considering how one of the big strengths of his ult is its reliability, perhaps his QWE could be made more interactive a la Sion, which could allow them to have more power.

{quoted}

Needs a new ultimate; his current one feels like a basic ability. It's powerful, but it's also low impact and takes a spot that could be used for something much cooler.

I think the biggest problem with Maokai's ult right now is that it's still retained a lot of its old design, namely its AoE damage reduction (damage reduction is never conducive to clarity) and mana drain per second, despite having a hard time limit. Considering how its core intent is to let Maokai mitigate damage for his entire team, it might be better if he did it in a way that was more visible to all: to pick an extreme example, if Maokai were to redirect all damage around him towards himself, he'd be able to fulfill that niche and play up his own role as a Warden.

{quoted}

Probably more suited to a VGU, but I'll put him here anyways. This should focus on Willump, the brutal Yeti with a soft spot for Nunu, ripping people to shreds and chilling them to protect his rider. He should be renamed to Willump.

I agree, Nunu's design has always been weird right down to his characterization, and he could use a VGU. It would be interesting to still have him be Nunu, but that would require work on what makes the kid so important, rather than the yeti that's currently doing all the work.

{quoted}

Leave the boar lady alone (mostly). She is honestly one of the best designs out of the tanks, so I am worried that she is going to get reworked again. Her passive could use some work though (even then, only maybe).

My issue with Sejuani is that, while her gameplay's quite good, her niche is a little confused, and she ends up playing more like a fighter with lots off CC, rather than a "true" tank. That's a pretty unique niche, and she deserves to keep it, but she could do with a little bit of work (namely, to her boring passive) in order to make sure she can feel great at her own thing, without feeling like too much of a generalist (likely one of the reasons why Riot has been reluctant to buff her).

{quoted}

The spirit sword is a cool mechanic, but it just doesn't make sense on Shen. Don't just make him tanky via stats, but make him hard to kill because Shen is a flipping NINJA.

I agree with this; Shen is in a better spot than he used to be, but he could use some more work, and his Spirit Blade just isn't a good fit on him. Personally, I'd capitalize instead on his ability to intercept damage and travel between the physical and spirit world, and make him a tank capable of disappearing and reappearing on the battlefield, intercepting enemy threats and taking them on himself.

LankPantsFeb 3, 20171 votes

likely one of the reasons why Riot has been reluctant to buff her

That's a pretty bullshit reason. Riot doesn't seem to have a problem with Lee Sin being a super strong generalist at all times.

Teridax68Feb 3, 20172 votes

That's true, Riot has been kinder to a lot of other generalist champions, namely Lee Sin, Thresh, Camille, etc., all of whom I also think should be stripped of a few strengths (or, at least, should be given a few more weaknesses). Similarly, there have been a ton of champions who have been hit for "doing too much", despite doing less overall than the aforementioned examples. However, this also isn't a problem that's entirely in Riot's hands, since champions each have fanbases of different sizes, and some of them have been especially vocal in their opposition to Riot making their champion less overloaded, as was the case when Riot suggested, and then canceled, a Lee Sin mini-rework a few years ago.

Sejuani, by contrast, was nerfed improperly, and in part for the wrong reasons (or, at least, Riot conveyed their reasons poorly, namely with that comment about rotating champions in and out of the spotlight), but she's also not nearly as popular as Lee or Thresh, which is likely why Riot is more comfortable with not addressing her just yet. I agree that Sej wasn't treated in the best way, especially compared to other champions that Riot has been much more careful around, but there's still some justification in not buffing her too much when she's capable of doing a lot when she's strong.