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Why doesn't Galio's Q scale on Magic Resist?

TehNACHO··29 votes·1,918 views

So Galio already has a niche as an Anti Magic Warden, but the waveclear necessary to allow him to even function mid lane is also making him overwhelming top lane. We can't just nerf his waveclear straight up because any nerf done to his waveclear top lane hurts twice as bad for his mid lane. Instead, what can be done is to weaken his waveclear's flat strength while still granting him the firepower necessary to keep pace in mid lane.

Idea 1: Winds of War now scales on Magic Resist Simple case of Flat Stats down, Scaling Up. This ties Magic Resistance to his basic function as a champion, instead of a neat bonus like it's currently used on his Passive and W/R resistance. This change also grants more flexibility on the AP scaling on his Q (aka, you can safely nerf it without gimping its scaling entirely), allowing you to unhinge some of the raw power behind Triple Doran's Rings. This also means he still has an avenue for creating a damage based preasure on the enemy team while still being a tank, meaning it's also safer to nerf the %Health damage currently in place on his Q.

Idea 2: Winds of War gets buffed if Galio has been hit by Magic recently Thematically, I find this version far more consistent with who Galio is in the lore and far more capable of generating interesting gameplay moments. This way, Galio doesn't just statstick his way through Magic Damage dealers, instead he actively has an element of play based on those Magic Damage dealers. I have two ideas currently set in mind: The first makes the buff time based, for example for the next 2 seconds after getting hit by Magic Damage, he deals more damage in return. The second idea is to tie it to his W shield, for example giving him a minor bonus whenever the Magic Shield he has pops.

Either of these ideas or even a combination of both can be justifications to lower the general power of Galio's waveclear, while still preserving it for the match ups he's made to fight against. Thoughts?

47 Comments

Malicious Metal6 votes

Because Old Galio's MR->Damage conversion made him extremely binary. Stupidly oppressive against mages, sub par against AD champs

SquashCannon2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6wkKaQzA,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-06-15T12:26:40.863+0000)

Because Old Galio's MR->Damage conversion made him extremely binary. Stupidly oppressive against mages, sub par against AD champs

"oppressive against mages"

that's his fucking role MM

No different than say nasus into darius. Darius is meant to be an absolute asshole.

Galio is meant to be an absolute asshole to AP champions.

Malicious Metal1 votes

Most comps work without an AP mage and are heavily based around AD damage. Meaning he used to be a pretty damn shitty pick most of the time.

Nobody wants hard counters in a game like League.

AlienPrimate1 votes

Nobody wants them but we have them all over. Here is a quick list from scrolling through the champion pictures. You could go on for days with a list like this.

Alistar >Leona Blitzcrank Darius > every tank Gangplank > Darius Any assassin > AurelionSolKarthus Zed > Veigar Pantheon Teemo > Singed Tryndamere Swain > Yasuo Fiora Morgana > Taric Rumble > Teemo Aatrox > Rumble

50000000000000001 votes

League has been trying to add soft counters and adjust hard counters.

AlienPrimate1 votes

It is impossible to not have hard counters. The way a champion's kit works will always be strong against one champion and weak against another. Unless we make every champion nearly identical, hard counters will exist. I am a Taric main so this one I am sure of. Morgana makes Taric absolutely worthless in lane because of black shield. Her shield isn't made to counter Taric, but a delayed stun that the enemy can see is naturally countered by a spell shield. The only way to remove the hard counter status in this case would be to remove the delay in the stun which would break Taric or remove black shield which would remove one of the main reasons to pick Morgana.

50000000000000001 votes

Taric stun isn't single target, though. If you're trying to get a pick, then Morgana can save that one person. But if you're engaging with another frontline, you can stun multiple targets. Not to mention, his other abilities are unaffected by the Black Shield, and Dazzle has lower cooldown (esp combined with passive) than Black Shield. And you're not wrong that Morgana's kit counters delayed CC, but she doesn't hard counter Taric because Taric can do more than just one delayed stun.

And bringing it back to Galio, he doesn't hard counter mages either, and that's kinda the point.

AlienPrimate1 votes

There is a reason I said "Morgana makes Taric absolutely worthless IN LANE". You can't use your passive very effectively and can't spam early game with Taric because his mana costs. You get one chance to land a stun. If the stun misses, the trade is botched and you have to back off. Taric can't trade against Morgana until later in the game when he is able to spam his abilities more and has a little toughness.

SpecterVonBaren14 votes

You say that like it's a bad thing. Malphite has similar mechanics but he's not seen as binary against AD champs.

Ralanr2 votes

Malphite is a poor example since he's a tier 1 champion for a full VGU.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

That's due to thematics and focus, he's one of the original 40 champions, all of who need modernization in some way if they haven't received it already. It doesn't mean they aren't effective, it just means they're outdated.

Tyermaillin1 votes

His kit is also incredibly binary lol. His ult's power and reliability means his basic abilities are underwhelming and boring to use. He's a poor example.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

If you really think his basic abilities are underwhelming then you've never played Malphite before in your life. I can agree that they are boring for some people but they're hardly weak abilities. And none of this even has anything to do with the point which is that Malphite has armor scalings and an armor steroid to make him a good pick against AD but he's also not gimped if up against AP.

Ralanr1 votes

I've played Malphite once. I ended ulting and chasing squishies to remind myself what fun was.

Sagan Forever2 votes

Malphite does not have waveclear. Waveclear is one of the strongest things in the game and giving him increased waveclear for playing tank is a bad idea. If you want to keep damage simply make q have reduced minion damage. Ps like having more mr scaling, just think q is the wrong spell.

YumaS2Astral3 votes

Malphite actually has good waveclear with his E, especially when combined with Iceborn Gauntlet and/or Sunfire Cape.

Sagan Forever1 votes

That is the ability to push a wave. Waveclear has to be ranged, so that if you are sieged by the enemy you can still clear the wave. Even if you consider it waveclear, if it is done from range it is incredibly more powerful that when done in melee range. The reason Gallo is the only tank that is still played in lane(pro play) is because he has the strongest waveclear for a tank. forgot Shen he is also played because he has the same ultimate and is one of the few tanks that can duel fighters.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

No... waveclear does not need to be ranged to be waveclear.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

Malphite has good waveclear though... His E and W both work together for good waveclear.

Noraver2 votes

Wow, giving Galio a a niche with counterplay options? Can't let that happen!

Malicious Metal3 votes

And people complain when a champion is too niche and never gets played.

Can't please everyone it seems.

Big Lincoln4 votes

new galio is worse about it though

it's the same stat-sink with no specific mechanics otherwise, but where old galio at least needed to also build AP to be a real threat, new galio can go full tank and still be a reasonably high damage threat with minimal effort. his anti-mage stuff is just stat-checking you by double dipping into damage reduction and getting a big magic shield passively

EcchiOtakuTM2 votes

He wasn't sub par vs AD champs, people just do not know how to think and play him.

It's like when malz was being called a bronze stomper when I'm pretty sure he worked in higher elo too because he was able to pump out huge % max hp damage and zoning just from his old W alone, but everyone always looks at one thing and thinks they can't do something else.

All you had to get was 1 armor item then your W+ulti locks down AD champs for your team, not some AP damage armor item, but a heavy HP+Armor item. But sadly players think galio could only go against mages and riot sadly caters to a dumb audience when reworking galio.

Galiö1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6wkKaQzA,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-06-15T12:26:40.863+0000)

Because Old Galio's MR->Damage conversion made him extremely binary. Stupidly oppressive against mages, sub par against AD champs

Old Galio was amazing against AD champs. In fact his old Winrate against most AD match ups was 55%

Darkdemon6534 votes

Because getting damage from defense is bad

TehNACHO13 votes

Bad for Carries if not done well, but it's normal for Tanks.

It's Galio, not Yasuo. Don't use sweeping Gameplay memes to dictate your every thought.

YumaS2Astral9 votes

Plus, there are lots of tanks, and even fighters, which get damage from building defense. Most of which gain from HP DrMundo Zac Sejuani TahmKench, but there is also those that gain damage from armor Malphite Rammus. Let's also not forget item 3748

Pandemic Punch1 votes

This is correct. I would also like to add two other big ones to your list... Chogath Volibear

DeadUnborn1 votes

tue, although malphs and rammu's damage from resitances is not notice-able enough because if it scaled well enough it would be OP (notice they are both among the frist 40 champs). In cotnrast damage from health scaling jst assures tanks build tanky in order to be relevant

Cosmic Warper4 votes

instead of making the flat damage scale with MR, make the % hp damage scale with MR.

Instead3 votes

Seems like a good idea. He was designed and reworked with being an anti-mage in mind but right now he's a reliable pick in almost any match up top.

50000000000000003 votes

Damage amp based on missing W shield, maybe?

Teridax683 votes

Personally, I really like Idea 2. My current issue with Galio is that his anti-magic theme is reflected pretty much only in his stats and scalings, rather than his actual playstyle. Sure, he has MR scalings and a magic damage-only shield, but there's nothing in his kit that really encourages him to "eat" magic, or anything of the like, nor does he get rewarded or compensated for soaking up spells. You could very easily switch his current MR scalings to armor right now, for example, and he'd just as easily lose his identity as an anti-mage, and become an anti-assassin instead.

What I like about the idea of soaking up spells to empower his own is that it would also put Galio much more back into Warden space: right now, he's kind of all over the place, and despite being classified as a Warden, plays more like a Vanguard or Diver, and has no real need to factor protecting his team into account outside of his ult. This kind of mechanic would make his anti-magic theme become much less stat-heavy, as mentioned in the OP, and make it much more naturally ingrained into his playstyle.

I think one way of empowering Galio's offensive power could be to have the cooldown on both his Q and innate be reduced when he takes magic damage, like a much more offensive Maokai. Galio's ground pound always going online simply because he landed all of his spells might reward him for accuracy (even though his spells are rather generous to land), but is a missed opportunity when his theme is empowering himself from his enemies' magic. Galio's core playstyle should be him retaliating against magic users with additional offensive power, not simply throwing himself into battle and scaling well with MR.

hhaavviikk2 votes

huge nerf to AP

TehNACHO7 votes

One counterpick does not an entire category of champions destroyed.

50000000000000004 votes

Besides, Galio is meant to be an anti-AP tank. If he's strong as a generalist, we should probably shift some power anyway.

AlienPrimate1 votes

He was always a huge counter to any mage except Velkoz and very few people played him.

ModKnightsKemplar2 votes

A superb proposition.

I, too, think Galio needs more MR scalings to re-inforce his theme. Part of the reason he's getting accused of being a generalist (in some other threads) is that his scalings were too cautious. He does too well building armor and health. He should NEED MR to truly excel. As long as he's very viable without it, he'll crowd out other tank choices. My two cents.

Unreformed Shaco1 votes

Sounds good.

At the moment I just poke 1-2 Qs then EQWAA for instakill. Gets a bit boring.

I like idea 2, about windows of play.

AFK Push1 votes

Because then he will be pick/ban for midlane into any ap matchup (he's already being played mid full tank in proplay)

Blakiepug1 votes

Two reasons. For one, Galio used to be more of an AP champion before his rework so it would have been blasphemous for him to have absolutely zero reason to build AP. For two, when you build tank you are paying for defensive stats and in general shouldn't be getting extra damage at the same time. Especially when you already have a % max health on your Q.

Auz the Ripper1 votes

The point would be to lower his base damage as well so that he can't just stack armor and be just as effective as if he built MR. Also there are AP/MR items, though I wish the damage reduction from his ult counted as a shield so he could use Athene's.

Faustavian1 votes

Because MR is meant to accentuate his damage, as it does on his passive, not source it.
Defensive stats -> burst damage on a skill that already has continuous %max health damage Probably a nightmare for anyone building any sort of AP, and then provides some pretty hardcore pre-teamfight poke.

DeadUnborn1 votes

if he got damage from mr, two outcomes are possible:

He builds full tank but his damage is dependant of enemy team comp and he can build a good amount of damage while being very tanky against the right team comp/ or completely fail

He builds tank but his damage is mediocre because he doesn't scale enough

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

How about we increase the cooldown to ~10 seconds max rank and have it reduced to what it is now when hit by magic?

Would serve as necessary nerf top lane.

Also I think he should get some nerfs period, because I'm pretty sure he bullies most tank tops in competetive, and these nerfs won't hit that area at all (unless it's a poppy, most tanks use AP damage on their abilities, so it's also better for Galio to build MR)

iahim981 votes

Really like the idea, hope someone from riot sees it.

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