A couple concerns about some jungle items

SonicÐeHedgedawg··2 votes·592 views

item 1039 - It's obvious that Hunter's talisman is supposed to be "the jungle item for junglers who don't really scale very well with item 1041 " but, in trying to be so broadly general, it really seems to underwhelm. Look at machete: bonus damage on hit and lifesteal. This is PERFECT for any jungler who uses primarily basic attacks to take down jungle monsters, whereas talisman is designed for people who use abilities, especially AoE abilities. The problem is, this includes both mages and tanks... but mages and tanks need very different things, so it's not really ideal on either of them. So far, it seems to perform better on mages because of the FLAT health restoration, and the fact that mages generally have enough damage in their kits to take down monsters without MUCH help. Tanks, on the other hand, are still really slow with a talisman, and the FLAT health regen doesn't keep them very healthy either. Here's a good indicator: I've run talisman and jungle masteries on Evelynn (one of the least safe, and most fragile junglers) and Sejuani (who, last season, was very good at clearing the jungle quickly and safely compared to pretty much any other pure tank). This season, not only does Evelynn jungle much FASTER, but the mana restore on runeglaive means she is coming out of the jungle with more mana, the FLAT health regen on talisman and item 2032) means she's coming out with more HP than Sejuani as well! Even when building straight damage Evelynn!!! It really feels like there needs to be some % health scaling healing for junglers and/or some on-BEING-hit effects like quill coat to help tank junglers stay relatively healthy and clear at least a LITTLE more quickly (no... gromp-smite alone doesn't cut it)

item 3711 - Basically, 2 wards just doesn't seem to cut it at all. It seems like this is supposed to be the jungler's response to item 2303 item 2302 anditem 2301 where you get a sightstone without giving up a full item slot for it, but you forfeit your on-champion smite to be able to do so... the problem is, the measly two wards doesn't seem to be strong enough to seriously compete, not only with the smite upgrades, but even with the item 3340 which you can get and keep for free, carries two charges as well, AND restores charges over time. I think a good way to give this item a little buff an some identity is to make its purpose obvious: This is supposed to be the counter-jungle option. You use it to get some scouting vision, or some cover-your-back-while-you-counterjungle vision. But the two charges on it run out really quickly. I think the PERFECT way to buff this item a little bit to make it useful would be to give it a little bit of the old Poacher's Knife flavour. Basically keep EVERYTHING about it the same as it is now, but, if you have less than two charges, killing an enemy's jungle camp that you have used smite on will restore one charge. It happens rarely enough that it won't flat out outclass a sightstone, but often enough that it's useful if you are actually counter-jungling.

7 Comments

IAM2FKINGKawaii1 votes

Tank jungles are meant to struggle at the initial phases. It's one of the trade offs for extremely good team fighting ability

Erockandroll2 votes

{quoted}

Tank jungles are meant to struggle at the initial phases. It's one of the trade offs for extremely good team fighting ability

we have learned from past experience that clear speed, isn't a good pivot of balance. Even if you ignore the part about tanks getting counter jungled. their opponents will still out level them simply due to the fact that they clear faster. (this is why we needed Cinderhulk to partially remedy that problem.)

SonicÐeHedgedawg1 votes

I even think I could deal with the slightly lower levels if they didn't lose so much HP and mana just clearing. even AFTER they complete cinderhulk.

Part of it could just be needing to revert the nerfs to Sejuani, Cinderhulk and/or Gromp smite passive after this season's generally negative changes to tanks

SonicÐeHedgedawg1 votes

here's the problem. When you don't have excellent sustain OR a strong clear speed booster, you aren't even as good at being a tank as a fighter jungler. Who cares if your sejuani has 50% more total HP than lee sin if she's 3 levels behind and half of her HP and 2/3 of her mana are expended by the time she comes out of the jungle.

BluePolarizer1 votes

The jungle is so ridiculous right now that I'm jungling Lucian, Jinx and Kog'Maw faster than standard junglers. Jinx in particular can finish a clear faster than Cho'Gath, Volibear, Warwick and most other standard junglers who were considered "decent clearers". It's absolutely insane.

SonicÐeHedgedawg1 votes

I think it's obvious that machette and kite is way way way way better than standard jungling or talisman. It's insane

SonicÐeHedgedawg1 votes

Oh... My god.... I have seen Jungle Graves...... It's so so so stupid op

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