Their matchmaking to generate autolosses. Seriously. It's probably the most consistent aspect of this game at this point.
People wouldn't be so toxic if winning/improving wasn't actively punished.
Oh, you've won 7 games on your way back to plat? F****** Challenger smurf, here's 4 tilted players on a losing streak and a Gold IV Veigar that just happened to take your main role. Carry this.
Fkin send me to the Shadow Realm already
xelaker29 votesIt sometimes feels like Riot made actual artificial intelligence and keeps it stuffed in some confined room running equations to kill winstreaks once you get close to or in promos.
Eedat26 votesWhen outcome is favorable:
"Yeah I deserved all these wins. Single handedly hard carried"
When outcome is not favorable:
"Shit team. All their fault. RIGGED"
It's hysterical seeing all these people telling that they deserve 10 wins in a row after being hardstuck at an ELO. They don't question a win streak at all but the second they get 4 loses they explode. REEEEEEEEEE RIGGED AGAINST ME!!!!!!! Then proceed to find any excuse they can to justify it. "MY MIDLANER 3 GAMES AGO WAS ON A LOSS STEAK!!!!!!! RIIIGGGGEEEDD!!!!!!!!"
Sanghelios30 votesWhen outcome is favorable:
"Yeah I deserved all these wins. Single handedly hard carried"
When outcome is not favorable:
"Shit team. All their fault. RIGGED"
It's hysterical seeing all these people telling that they deserve 10 wins in a row after being hardstuck at an ELO. They don't question a win streak at all but the second they get 4 loses they explode. REEEEEEEEEE RIGGED AGAINST ME!!!!!!! Then proceed to find any excuse they can to justify it. "MY MIDLANER 3 GAMES AGO WAS ON A LOSS STEAK!!!!!!! RIIIGGGGEEEDD!!!!!!!!"
I think it's more hysterical to see someone denying that it's rigged. Trust me I'm not someone that goes MUH TEAM when I lose games, and I'd probably have a better chance at winning these games if I wouldn't tilt the moment I see all lanes getting stomped in every single game after a winstreak. It's just so apparent how severely matchmaking tries to keep winrates at 50% that it's frustrating, and I'm sure for most people it is the reason they're hardstuck, because they've been discouraged to improve, or even play for that matter.
Lakega2 votesI think it's more hysterical to see someone denying that it's rigged. Trust me I'm not someone that goes MUH TEAM when I lose games, and I'd probably have a better chance at winning these games if I wouldn't tilt the moment I see all lanes getting stomped in every single game after a winstreak. It's just so apparent how severely matchmaking tries to keep winrates at 50% that it's frustrating, and I'm sure for most people it is the reason they're hardstuck, because they've been discouraged to improve, or even play for that matter.
^ This...
yoshi279059 votesIf you win 7 games and then lose 6, all in a row, quite often, something is wrong with the matchmaking. ESPECIALLY if a lot of people relate to this.
the chances of this being a coincidence are close to nothing.
TheThundersRoar17 votesWhat would Riot be gaining from doing this?
HaIlMonitor14 votesThey gain the addiction aspect. If you really want to be in gold for example it if you just win 20 games in a row and get into gold, you may stop playing. If you stop playing you generally would spend less money. If you only win 60% of games, it takes longer to do so you "earn them more money".
Because your right, they really shouldn't gain anything from it, but it ruins the fun for other people. You honestly can't tell anyone you haven't been in a game where you might be 3/0, you look at the score and the game is 3/15 or something crazy by 12.
Spank the Fox15 votesI certainly don’t feel addicted after losing 3 games in a row, I fail to see the end game here.
Your whole post also reads a tinfoil hat conspiracy. Nice
HaIlMonitor4 votesAfter you lose 3 games in a row, you might take a break, but do you come back and play more?
junglerboy167 votesIt's hard to see the addiction aspect of it but it's true. It's not so much "Wow, I just lost 4 times this is so fun!" it's "Damnit all I lost again, just one more, I know I'll win this time!" That or people refusing to leave on a losing streak (or for that matter a winning streak).
What everyone commonly refers to as getting tilted is actually a symptom of addiction, sort of "winning withdrawal" where it becomes a lot harder to put the game aside even though it's actually hurting your climb rather than helping, all because you get it in your head that you can get past it in the moment if you just play another round.
EDIT: The thing about using this model to create an addictive gaming pattern is that if the negatives outweigh the positives too consistently or too severely, it can actually have the reverse effect and snap someone out of building an addiction to a game, leaving them disillusioned with the experience.
Gregor Gysi6 votesYeah because if Riot wasn't conspiring against the userbase we would all be in challenger and have nothing left to do and would stop playing /s
Hibeki4 votesNo but I honestly believe that most of the users would climb to a higher tier. Silver 4 seasons ago is vastly different to silver now.
Gregor Gysi1 votes.. In which case they would still have plenty space to climb higher. There is no need to artificially hold people back.
Hibeki2 votesYes there is, enforcing a 50% winrate makes people play your game more to reach their goals.
Theres no reason for people to get placed many divisions below their actual mmr when ranked first starts either, but like riot says its to 'provide a challenge' and 'lets you feel like you achieved something'
My winrate in hots isn't 50%. not even close. it's around 65-70%.
Subdue1 votesYes there is, enforcing a 50% winrate makes people play your game more to reach their goals.
Theres no reason for people to get placed many divisions below their actual mmr when ranked first starts either, but like riot says its to 'provide a challenge' and 'lets you feel like you achieved something'
My winrate in hots isn't 50%. not even close. it's around 65-70%.
Your win rate in hots is 65-70% out of how many games?
Hibeki2 votesabout a thousand games or so?
Subdue1 votesabout a thousand games or so?
Let's try some logic here. Let's say you and your friend are 100% equally skilled in every way at some imaginary game. You and your friend play the game against each other 1000 times. What would you expect your win rate to be against your friend?
Hibeki4 votesThats a terrible comparison. The matchmaking is not equally skilled. Ive made this as a post before
If the value of a team is 500, it can be 5 members of 100 rating, or it could be 2 members of 200 rating and 3 members of 33 rating.
You see people all the time getting matched with and against people who are so many divisions below you that you wouldn't be allowed to queue up with them. So despite the game recognizing that they are too far from your skill level, it wont hesitate to put them on your team.
And even still, QT is not on 'equal footing' of most other challenger players. You honestly think him andeveryone else are equally matched to where his 50% winrate is totally natural? Its just not. Plain and simple.
yoshi27902 votesMaybe they thought the system would do something else, but were wrong, and then didn't want to revert to the old system. They don't have to gain anything from it if they don't do it on purpose, it's probably a failed system they're too scared of to change. IMO
Cowseed4 votesAre you familiar with a Casino?
Evil Yasuo2 votesI do. I'll be taring through people like a fuckin beast then out of nowhere, my streak will not only cease but i'll go on a losing streak till I demote. It makes climbing impossible.
JohnnyNeverSins5 votesHoly fuck that's so fucking true...I have so many friends that said to me "I won 8 games in a row dude!" And after some time they lose like 6-7 in a row....well..
Janna Me Fiddle3 votesIf you win 7 games and then lose 6, all in a row, quite often, something is wrong with the matchmaking. ESPECIALLY if a lot of people relate to this.
the chances of this being a coincidence are close to nothing.
Decided to do my placements over the past two days, big friggin mistake.
2 wins 8 losses.
So how'd this happen?
Game 1: entire team knows what to do, wins it convincingly
Game 2: I'd say it's a fair loss, if it wasn't for the Plat 5 being thrown in, what the heck is a plat doing playing against placement players?
Game 3: Fair to say I was tilted this game, but what's this? 2 gold 4s, a gold 5 and a silver 1 vs a gold 4, 5 and a silver 4....erm, yeah that's hardly "balanced matchmaking"
Game 4: Trolled, Lucian stacking tears and running it down mid because he and Kayn decided to get into an argument
Game 5: My absolute fault this one, no denying I played like a Bronze....but what's this, ANOTHER plat 5?
Game 6: Trolled again, Yi runs it down mid, WW purposely afks, keeps coming back afks again....wait what's that...ANOTHER plat 5?
Game 7: Tilted off the face of the earth by this point, again, my fault should've stopped playing...but hey what's this? Low silvers vs high silvers and golds....GG Rito your algorithm is great.
Game 8: Again, my fault should've stopped playing by this point, was in the wrong mindset and really not having a good time, but let's take another look at the matchmaking....2 golds, a silver 2 an unranked and a silver 1....vs 3 golds and 2 silver 1s, can you seriously not balance this at all riot?
Game 9: Smurfed on, Riven smurf comes in and dominates everyone, oh what fun that was.
Game 10. Rito decided enough was enough, throws a level 11 Kayn on the enemy team, a LEVEL 11. what even is this? How was that fair to the enemy team? I'm still playing like a tilted idiot though and die more than I should.
Again, I ask the question, let's disregard the two troll games, let's even ignore the smurf coming in to show off their epeen (it's been done, we get it, it's not original)
What in the absolute bejesus are plat 5's doing facing people in placement matches, especially when the MMR calculator is simulating you're supposed to be facing low golds/high silvers? Look I'm trash, I'll always be trash
But that stinks of one absolutely screwed up MMR algorithm to me that my dog could've done better.
I've been an advocate of it for many years, scrap the system, replace it with MS Trueskill system, that way people will actually get fair matches more often with outlier matches being more of a rarity than so common you could set your watch by it.
General Esdeath 26 votes100% of toxic players on my team in the last 3 months of S7 were all on a losing streak and they only appeared when I was in a promo match. I understand bad games but they're just tilted.
Why in my promo to gold 1 was there a silver 4 player? That's 7 divisions below the rest of us in the game.
Ahri Baka1 votesHonestly , it means only 1 thing , that silver 4 has like 7 winning streak and he is happy af , and the enemy team are either plats or gold 1/2/3 but on losing streak and tilted , so just get your hopes up on this silver 4 and he will carry
Andrey03454 votesJust because he is happy while enemy team is tilted doesn't mean he is all of a sudden a match for high gold/low plat players.
Hügö23 votesI remember last season 0-100 lp no problem without any lose then suddenly: Here carry those feeders after your winstreak in those totaly not important promo games.
SweedishGunner8 votesPromos really need to go. Making some games arbitrarily more important than others makes getting feeders in those games so much worse.
Whisper8721 votesI totally agree that win and loss streaks should not be taken into account for matchmaking. Notice I said MATCHMAKING not ELO or MMR.
Here's the deal. It's a good system when your matchmaking value goes up faster than your visible rank or elo. Example: It's OK for a Gold 5 player to go on a 10 game win streak to get into G4 and then all of the sudden start running into G1 and Platinum 5 players. You will either start getting smacked and things will level out, or you will rightfully keep winning and just get where you belong faster. This part RIOT does correctly.
Here's what doesn't work, putting players on a losing streak on the team with someone on a win streak. Now I understand the idea here. You want to make sure the winning player isn't just by luck getting carried repeatedly and that the losing players aren't just having bad luck and getting sandbagged by trolls repeatedly. I get that. I really do. But the game is not balanced for that.
When you put a player on an upswing on a team with 3 players who are either significantly lower elo and/or on a losing streak, you are essentially saying that if you are so good you should be able to carry 3-4 other tilted players. RIOT themselves has said they don't want League to be a game where a person can reliably solo carry. So you create a system where a person has to do something you don't want them to be able to do in order to win? It's directly contradictory. Champions and roles are not designed/balanced to solo carry, so do not implement a mechanic that creates and artificial environment that most likely (by design) results in a loss.
My only explanation for this is the almighty $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. If I had to guess I'd say this mechanic exists so that if a historically silver player gets a stroke of luck and goes on a win streak he finds himself in Gold territory and decides to stop playing so that he can maintain the end season rewards. Or conversely, that if a traditionally higher elo player randomly gets sandbagged he doesn't decide to stop playing because he's had to play 20 games in top gold when he's never had an issue making it to Platinum in the past.
Human interference ruing a system that would be so much better when random. Let win streaks boost hidden MMR and to some degree actual visible ELO, but do not let them become a factor in matching based on win lose streaks. Just let matchmaking be fully based on MMR/ELO. If we lose a player just because they found themselves a little higher or lower, they were gonna quit soon anyway the minute their favorite champ or style of play got nerfed.
Here are my questions to RIOT:
Do the above situations really happen often enough that you are OK irritating the crap out of people trying to hard climb? (I'm guessing the number of people trying to climb and getting snubbed by this mechanic is much much higher than the number of people who might actually quit or reduce their game volume in a significant way).
Do you actually think that going on a losing streak because of just random bad luck is more annoying than a system in your favorite game actively trying to stop your win streak despite it being contradictory to the game's philosophy?
P.S. If you actually take my advice and you find a player who has been silver or lower for 3 seasons or more on their main account suddenly get carried by luck into Diamond, I will retract all previous statements, acknowledge that RIOTers are amazing God-Prophets and will purchase a skin for every champion in the game.
SangreDeNoche3 votesI totally agree that win and loss streaks should not be taken into account for matchmaking. Notice I said MATCHMAKING not ELO or MMR.
Here's the deal. It's a good system when your matchmaking value goes up faster than your visible rank or elo. Example: It's OK for a Gold 5 player to go on a 10 game win streak to get into G4 and then all of the sudden start running into G1 and Platinum 5 players. You will either start getting smacked and things will level out, or you will rightfully keep winning and just get where you belong faster. This part RIOT does correctly.
Here's what doesn't work, putting players on a losing streak on the team with someone on a win streak. Now I understand the idea here. You want to make sure the winning player isn't just by luck getting carried repeatedly and that the losing players aren't just having bad luck and getting sandbagged by trolls repeatedly. I get that. I really do. But the game is not balanced for that.
When you put a player on an upswing on a team with 3 players who are either significantly lower elo and/or on a losing streak, you are essentially saying that if you are so good you should be able to carry 3-4 other tilted players. RIOT themselves has said they don't want League to be a game where a person can reliably solo carry. So you create a system where a person has to do something you don't want them to be able to do in order to win? It's directly contradictory. Champions and roles are not designed/balanced to solo carry, so do not implement a mechanic that creates and artificial environment that most likely (by design) results in a loss.
I pointed this out after 1 season of play and everyone acted like I was crazy then give it 2 seasons and people have been increasingly agreeing with me as each season went by since.
Seilleas7 votesIt´s actually legit, I think that if the system sees that you solo carried your game total stomp by yourself, the next game you get team so shit you cant possibly carry 1v5, in very many cases even in higher elo I experience having 3 bad players one alright one and me vs 5 good players and theres just no chance of winning anymore
Barkley7 votesI dont care what anyone says. Promo games are inherently harder.
I'm gold 3 right now (or gold 4? Idk, I've been playing on a new account trying to level it) and I hit my plat promos during preseason twice.
During each of those promo series, I got afks, leavers, trolls, toxic players, and players 2-3 divisions below me.
And this isn't the first time this has happened. Back when I started and I was trying to hit silver, I had to do my silver promos 20-something times. When I hit gold to begin with, I had to do my gold promos like 10-15 times.
Seems like every time you get into promos, riot throws the kitchen sink at you.
Swarovsko6 votesI remember my promos to plat 5 perfectly. How strange I had the best teammates EVER and then right after reaching for the first promo I'm playing with a silver jungler and an unranked adc...
Ahri Baka3 votesAt least better than better than my gold 5 promo where I had an unranked xin adc and Garen mid with barrier and heal xDD
Incarceration6 votesgot matched up with 2 unranked players that obv belonged in bronze 2 at most. I lost 20 lp and they say my mmr is good.
Gregor Gysi5 votesPeople wouldn't be so toxic if winning/improving wasn't actively punished.
Good thing that you haven't improved in three seasons.
Sanghelios7 votes[{quoted}](name=Gregor Gysi,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6ekpTAEH,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2018-01-06T00:29:21.314+0000)
Good thing that you haven't improved in three seasons.
Except I've only been playing for 2 seasons and interestingly it took you 3 seasons to achieve the rank I acquired in my first season of playing the game.
Doctor Dyment7 votesAh yes, nothing says I am more mature better than saying I'm better than you.
SangreDeNoche2 votesExcept I've only been playing for 2 seasons and interestingly it took you 3 seasons to achieve the rank I acquired in my first season of playing the game.
lol same shit with me. I got told if I deserved gold I'd be gold by now but my first year of play I had all plats aside from 1 or 2 gold 1-2 players in each of my ranked games. The difference was instead of starting ranked right away I treated it like a test, watching, reading, and trying out in custom games everything I could before I finally dove into ranked.
Gregor Gysi2 votesYeah, go ahead and try to dodge the point:
Since season 6 in which you reached P5 you have not managed to hold a winrate that is above 50%. In fact you had a 46% winrate with your main in S7 and a 44% winrate with your main so far in this pre-season. That means that it is just a fact that you have not improved in a long time.
Thus it's absolutely hilarious that you claim that improving is being actively punished.
Hibeki4 votesOk, lets look at QT's account chowdog on op.gg
While yes he does a gimmick sometimes, you honestly think possibly the best player on NA....naturally holds a 52% winrate.
No if QT had his way and didn't do his gimmicks he could easily hold a 75% winrate.
But no, look at his history. 4 wins 4 losses 2 wins 2 losses, its all a pattern which is totally unnatural. QT has proven he is consistent in play to a point where he shouldn't be 'going on tilt'. He already achieved rank 1 challenger earlier last year, so if you honestly think that QT's winrate is naturally 52% then you are just as drunk out of your mind as riot wants you to be.
Captainn Ginyu5 votesi feel as if a lot of people are fanboying in here "no the system isint rigged/broken! your just bad" covenant everytime i get on a winstreak its halted as soon as i hit promo's by afk'ers trolls people who are tilted an so on an i end up on a losing streak cause i get slapped with a lot of these people till i eventually get shoved back on a winstreak again
an no you cant solo carry this game unless the team your fighting against is totally brain dead
bywords702 votes[deleted]
inting Senna6 votesso you have to be diamond to win gold/plat games?
bywords702 votesexplain why a real gold player should be expected to win more games than lose against golds. obviously people who are better than the people they are being matched with wins more, people who are not are hard stuck.
Divewing7 votesExplain why a gold player should have to be diamond just to prove they are gold?
bywords701 votesthey do not, to reach gold a player just has to play at a gold level stop making up stupid arguments
Divewing4 votesTHAT WAS YOUR OWN IMPLICATION
Remlap12235 votesYour argument kinda falls flat on its face when a player that's Silver has to beat a team with high golds with Silver players on his team in order to get you gold.
It's like if you called Dyrus bad because he lost to SKT T1 when he had a team of Diamond players, and said he just needs to play at a Challenger Level even though he's made Challenger every season in League.
