So Jhin has a 52% winrate......with a 35% playrate

THE RlVER KlNG··63 votes·8,337 views
Champion.gg - Jhin ADC Stats, Builds, Runes, Masteries and Counters

we can complain about Caitlyn's 50% winrate on a 20% playrate but the moment you raise a finger against Jhin a flood of mains rise against you babbling about counterplay and windows of power? "oh he's so fun to play and his kit is so in-depth and beautiful" no, he is a pain to play against and pretty blatantly overtuned

yes, I understand an assassin can jump an ADC. That is not adequate counterplay to the crit-pen monstrosity that is an absolute beast from range while also being one of the most potent kiters in the game. He's been the number one ADC in the game patch after patch, pick-ban in the LCS, and has maintained a strong winrate with a bloated playrate in every meta since release. Meaningful nerfs are in order....

.....and a 1-second reduction to the combined 3 second slow on his ult, which he shouldn't even have in the first place, won't hurt him in the slightest

and before people yell BUT MF BUT TWITCH BUT QUINN yes those champs are also overtuned and annoying, but they have fractions of fractions of Jhin's playrate. Jhin is the Lee of bot lane. If you took away all the noobs and wannabes playing him you'd see how disgusting he really is.

EDIT: op.gg, which Riot themselves have said is more accurate, clock Jhin in at a fucking 54% pickrate

135 Comments

Malicious Metal43 votes

I'll take a fed Jhin over a fed Cait any day of the week.

He actually feels fair to play against whereas other champions, even when utterly underpowered, feel like complete shit to play against.

THE RlVER KlNG11 votes

Both Cait and Jhin are zero fun to play agianst when fed. With Jhin it doesn't matter the distance you are from your target - he can kill and root people from two screens away, and has built-in kiting tools that makes approaching him even more of a nightmare. He takes the best of both a long-ranged AD caster and a kite-happy ADC with a strong laning phase that transitions into a ridiculous late.

Saying Jhin is annoying and strong does not invalidate other champions being annoying and strong.

Spârky17 votes

the difference is jhin has execute damage where as twitch and cait for example can just 1v5 a team. Jhin has such a high playrate because he is just fun to play i dont understand why people dont understand that. And lets be honest here. Jhin is like ezreal he is always good but never the best like in crit meta's where cait, ashe, draven, twitch, beat him and in lethality meta's where he is stronger but mf still beats him there. Once lethality is nerfed you will see his winrate drop and even riot are making his r slow less and giving him less waveclear with his e

JavelinJoe3 votes

Not to mention that he cant easily 1v1 any other ADC who runs Warlord's Bloodlust if he does not have all 4 shots available.

Skorch1 votes

XinZhao is my bane as Jhin, FLAT counter. Not saying take him ADC but if a xin ganks me or catches jhin out he is in trouble

WeepinShades13 votes

I find it hilarious that people actually believe that high playrates are the result of champions being "fun to play". You're telling me with a straight face you believe that one champ (out of 134) is played in over half of all games simply because they designed him to be "fun"? He's only fun to play because he's strong as fuck. Same with all the other "fun" champs. It's the same reason all the pre-rework kassadin and gragas mains thought their champs were "fun". Doing well is fun, winning is fun.

This is the same community that INSTANTLY mass-parrots lcs picks and strats and for some reason a lot of people like to pretend everyone is just playing "for fun".

You want a real example of someone finding a champion fun? Everyone who isn't just looking up who the strongest champs are in their role and then spamming them until something else stronger comes along. Oops, I meant to say, 'until someone more FUN comes along' /s.

iamthegoatofwar2 votes

I still play malzahar and teemo cause I find them fun...Your point is invalid to someone like me.

PB4UAME4 votes

You are a statistical outlier even if you are a special snowflake, and no one, broadly speaking, cares about you when discussing the general population, like oh, in an aggregate statistic.

Personal anecdote =/= relevant to aggregate data,

NineTailedMystic3 votes

Jhin has such a high playrate because he is just fun to play i dont understand why people dont understand that.

Yet people don't buy the same argument for similar champions? I remember when people said "Yasuo and Zed have such high playrates because they're fun".

MissingKayo10 votes

He's not broken. But almost every other ADC is garbage. He has incredibly clearly defined strengths and weaknesses. He is quite strong, yes. That is not broken.

THE RlVER KlNG9 votes

{quoted}

But almost every other ADC is garbage.

Caitlyn Draven Ezreal MissFortune Quinn Varus Twitch

hahaha garbage you say thats actually pretty funny

MissingKayo5 votes

You should learn what the word "almost" means.

Out of 19 botlaners, barely a third of them are good.

THE RlVER KlNG10 votes

Out of 19 botlaners, one is a mage, one is better top, you can play about a third mid, and the other is Urgot

name an ADC other than Kalista that is actually bad and detrimental to a team

MissingKayo2 votes

Not bad and detrimental to a team, but just complete garbage compared to the few handful of ADCs that are actually decent. Which is, just about every single ADC you didn't list.

THE RlVER KlNG9 votes

Ashe Jinx Lucian Tristana are actually in some of the most balanced states they've been in months

Vayne Sivir are still very effective in most comps

Graves Corki Quinn have essentially migrated to other roles and are performing extremely well

everyone else is 100% meta and picked 99% of the time at high tier play, most especially Jhin

HeadHonchkrow2 votes

Corki 's good as an adc too rn

Requiemsfire9 votes

Tristana is the only ADC i can think of that is actually bad who fits the marksmen role in the botlane who is actually bad.

Handy Sandy 6 votes

Caitlyn Draven Ezreal MissFortune Quinn Varus Twitch

hahaha garbage you say thats actually pretty funny

Clearly whoever downvoted you has not fought Quinn recently.

GGLineaR2 votes

Right!? Every Quinn I see is stacking lethality like a mother fucker. xD IT HURTS.

Arakadia10 votes

He's just been abusing armor pen and lethality. That's like if Sion was OP because of X mastery, your asking for Sion to get nerfed.

THE RlVER KlNG2 votes

With no meaningful nerfs to Lethality in sight (in fact, a buff to Last Whisper, an early pen item), and Jhin being just as strong in metas where it was weak or nonexistent, of course Jhin still needs nerfs.

Arakadia5 votes

What.

No, it doesn't matter what the PBE shows. Just because lethality isn't getting meaningfully nerfed doesn't mean Jhin should get nerfed. Because than Jhin gets reliant on lethality, and when lethality ADC's drop out, Jhin will be garbage. Honestly, they should just fix Lethality for ranged champions. Jhin is fine when he goes crit, and his % missing hp does better in a damage heavy game. Its the meta and itemization that is in need of changes, not Jhin. If they do change Jhin, they should make him build crit, but not necessarily nerf him.

Sp33d Zer08 votes

He had massive pick rates and decent win rates before Lethality.

AstroFerrari 7 votes

Looking at his op.gg and champion.gg files, it seems that this rise is directly correlated to the buffs in lethality, as he is rushing Youmuus and EON before even getting 1 crit item. Any nerfs to those items or lethality in general will also be a nerf to him.

Also, the other more traditional ADCs like Jinx Vayne Twitch Tristana are either relatively balanced or too weak. And coming from someone who enjoys play Jinx, her strength relies on the competency of your supp.

Lastly, the game is more snowbally, so a champion like Jhin that can just go for lethality and snowball has it easy right now.

Skorch7 votes

Claims Jhin mains are a circlejerk, gets a post on front page about being anti jhin after being out for 2 hours, Maybe people defending Jhin mains arent circlejerk just people with rationality? and the REAL circlejerk are the antiADC lethality op people?

GGLineaR2 votes

Well, tbh lethality is pretty gross right now. I don't understand, however the anger people have at Jhin right now.

Skorch3 votes

Yeah i just made a post where OP made a comment thread arguing BASICALLY what he said in this post.

IN said post i also said Lethality is gross not Jhin but OP thinks differently

GGLineaR1 votes

I figure it must be because he's kinda meta as far as adc's go. You see him everywhere, and people just assume that all adcs build lethality right now. (Which is a bad idea, ESPECIALLY on Jhin)

Odds are, it just comes from lethality and meta anger. What they should be upset about is how disgusting Lethality Talon, Rengo, and Kha'zix are right now.

Skorch3 votes

I just want them to nerf lethality BEFORE jhin

If he is still too strong then go ahead but i dont want to nerf champs that are all building the SAME THING

YCitizenSnipsY1 votes

Nah there is definitely a Jhin circle jerk. People are excusing his stats when they have cried about Thresh and Lee Sin for the same thing, becasue Jhin doesn't "feel oppressive to play against."

Skorch1 votes

I dont doubt a Jhin circlejerk (although i wouldnt call people who play them excessively a circlejerk as everyone has their mains) But at the same time Jhins stats ARE different. Nor do i hear people complaining about his stats. I just want a lethality nerf BEFORE we start nerfing champs that are also strong with lethality.

SlntReaper7 votes

Jhin is a boards favorite. See shyv, morde, aatrox, and other "weak" champions that have a "good" design.

DarkRitual7 votes

Jhin is not a problem. Lethality is a problem.

I'm not a Jhin main, or even marksman main. Quit whining about Jhin and focus on how absurdly strong Lethality is compared to other buildpaths. Best jugnlers build lethality. Best marksmen build it too. Some of the better performing mid and toplaners build it too. Lethality got buffed, now suddenly it's crowding everything else out of the meta. It needs to be brought back in line before any of the champs using it get touched.

Bârd5 votes

Or maybe, just maybe, we should judge champions based on their strengths and weaknesses rather than purely by their win/play rate?

Jhin Pros Incredible burst Initiation/pick tools Long range abilities Versatile Build

Cons Reload time Backloaded damage (4th shot takes a while to come out) Poor at killing tanks/bruisers Poor at killing structures Low mobility (completely immobile during ult) Lifesteal is not effective Ult reveals your location

Mega Annie X4 votes

how the hell do you not mention his hyper AD scaling and movespeed PERMABUFF after 50% crit that is literally UDYR mode all the time

Bârd5 votes

The current standard Jhin build has one attack speed item, RFC, which gives 30% attack speed.

Jhin's crits give him 10% (+4% per 10% AS) movement speed for 2 seconds.

This totals out to a 22% movement speed buff after crits, which make up around 60ish% of his attacks. He builds this as a fourth item (not including boots), so he gets 10% movement speed for the early-mid game.

In comparison, Udyr gains 15-35% movement speed for 2-3 seconds whenever he activates bear stance. This is further increased by his passive, is a reliable spell that doesn't count on RNG, and he doesn't need to buy expensive items to make it relevant.

If you are going to try and make a conuterpoint, please do so with rational thought and valid points, not by mashing your keyboard with a salt lick. Doing so makes you appear to be an angry child who is only here to complain about champions who recently was on the opposing team in a game you lost.

Mega Annie X2 votes

who care about "rational" points. The fact is it is there. Just because pen is totally out of control right now, doesnt mean that this isnt still a serious problem. They will eventually nerf pen into the ground since every single adc in the game is rushing it regardless of kit.

Bârd1 votes

"Who cares about rational points?"

Uh, sure bud. Denying the validity of logic itself. Nice job.

Say they do nerf lethality, and Jhin has to cut it out of his build entirely. Jhin still probably won't buy any more attack speed than he currently does. AS on Jhin increases AD by a percentage, so if he doesn't stack lots of AD alongside the AS, he will be giving up a large amount of damage. Jhin's standard build would likely be IE, rfc, boots, (two out of ER, BT, and Merc Scim), Dominiks.

Until some d1 korean starts building trinity force, or something, his speed doesn't get out of hand.

It's a trade off. Build more flat AD with I've AS item to burst harder. Build multiple AS items for better kiting at the cost of a significant chunk of damage.

Exalomaniac5 votes

oh god, here comes the next circlejerk...

JackMcSnipeyz3 votes

Lethality buffs + fun kit + new skin = popularity buff to jhin.

Lethality buffs upped his winrate because they pretty much buffed every AD champ.

His new skin was super hyped so of course more people spam him in game (me included).

And - he's a fun champion , he has awesome strong points but also very defined weak points. Every marksman can duel him late game in a fair fight, every assassin worth his salt should instagib him without a problem, tanks arent weak against him because they need to be low health to get executed so 1v1 he isnt oppressive. He makes up for these weaknesses with utility and burst, take away his long range utility and you're left with a burst adc who can't do anything because his too reliant on his 4th shot. Take away his burst and he is a utility bot and no one needs a marksman for that.

Everything in jhin's kit can be avoided, his 4th shot is auto reloaded if not used, his W has a deley and is telegraphed, his ult requires a couple of hits to execute and is aswell telegraphed, his Q requires setup to dent the enemy. G That's why you dont see people complain about him, he seems fair, pulling statistic that are just a symptom of a specific series of circumstances doesn't mean he changed as a champion.

rtbf2256182413 votes

This is more about the items being overtuned because they amplify EVERYONE's abilities so far they're ridiculous. Jhin's kit has extra AD scaling but it's easy to play against. What are you even talking about?

And for the record, they nerfed most of the offensive Masteries on PBE which should ship in the next patch.

yes, I understand an assassin can jump an ADC. That is not adequate counterplay to the crit-pen monstrosity that is an absolute beast from range while also being one of the most potent kiters in the game.

You mean the fact that Lethality is broken is Jhin's fault? And as far as i know, he can only kite when he has enough crit in his kit. If any champion gets close to him and he misses W (which is extremely easy to dodge at melee range) plus giving some time to kill him using it then he will not go anywhere. It's more about protecting the carry that this post is all about. Jhin's hard to get to from a peel-y team. He has no self-peel whatsoever so stop making things up for the sake of hate.

Guy Fox Teemo2 votes

He's getting some nerfs; But I don't think he's that broken, I think it was more of Lethatliy became incredibly powerful pushing one hit adcs like him to an incredibly high. I imagine if they nerf lethality or the items that use it, he'll be back in a healthy state.

THE RlVER KlNG5 votes

The thing is he was #1 ADC for patch upon patch before Lethality was even a thing

MissingKayo4 votes

That's because it was flat armor pen instead which was even stronger.

GGLineaR5 votes

Flat armor pen was stronger early game, but negligible in late. Lethality is negligible in early, but disgusting in late.

6Sfool1 votes

....They're testing out a couple nerfs on the pbe. The slow change on his ult will make it noticeably harder to chain hits, which to me is the worst part about facing him. Caitlyn, however, is getting no attention in the patch notes, and she is much more annoying to face.

LankPants2 votes

But she's also much more balanced. Ultimately the important difference between them isn't that they're annoying, they're both annoying as fuck. Caitlyn is just a lot more balanced than Jhin is as a champion, which is why she's not getting nerfed.

the weeaboo1 votes

Cait: Stands in Bush and autos for a 1k damage crit, follows up with 1k damage point and click ult. Traps ROOT and near-guarantee a crit in lane. Has a wall dash. Near instant Q damage

Jhin: Needs to shoot 4 times at a slow rate to get one good crit that only deals big damage if you're already low. Q damage is obvious and requires a lot of planning. W requires allies to initiate to root. Traps slow and will most likely not do damage. Ult requires low health and/or 4 skill shots. No dash.

Who needs nerfs again?

LankPants4 votes

skill shots.

Oh, that's what this is about. You're bronze 5, no one in bronze can use skillshots properly. Of course course Cait seems strong when you have a 10% skillshot accuracy, she's not that skillshot reliant. Most people manage greater than 10% accuracy though, Jhin's pretty broken when you land some skillshots.

Who needs nerfs again?

Jhin. He's in every game above gold. He's a top LCS/LCK pick. He's got one of the highest pickrates, winrates and banrates among all ADCs. Jhin needs nerfs, don't kid yourself.

KoggyStyle2 votes

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

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