Riots client is causing toxicity in blind pick

Gorsz·Dec 25, 2014·35 votes·5,619 views

The only system in place to get a specific lane in blind pick is the "first come first serve" such as calling it, yet soooooooooo many fights/arguments, and trolled games happen because calls do not even show up to players who load a split second later.

"I already called mid"

"nun uh I did"

"FU IM GOING MID"

"FINE DUO MID"

etc etc etc..

Countless games ruined, or started with bad blood because of this flawed system. Riot, if you want to do something about toxicity I suggest you do something about this issue.

96 Comments

SmokingPuffinDec 25, 20149 votes

I am more inclined to say the problem is call order as a system and/or jerks.

GorszDec 25, 20147 votes

Call order would work fine if the client was equipped to deal with it.

"First come first serve" "first one to raise hand gets called on" has been working for a long time in other areas of life.

Anyways what other system could you do for blind pick?

JamareeDec 25, 20147 votes

{quoted}

Call order would work fine if the client was equipped to deal with it.

"First come first serve" "first one to raise hand gets called on" has been working for a long time in other areas of life.

Anyways what other system could you do for blind pick?

You mean team builder where you get to decide your role without that mess?

GorszDec 25, 20145 votes

Team builder is not blind pick.

JamareeDec 25, 201410 votes

{quoted}

Team builder is not blind pick.

Stop using blind pick then? If you are tired of having to fight and rage over your role, why not use the system in place that allows you to utterly remove that factor?

GorszDec 25, 20146 votes

Having to stop using a game mode because of a design flaw is not the proper course of action.

Not to mention if your champion isnt LCSBIGPLAYS #1 you cannot even find a game in team builder. I was waiting over 5 minutes for cass mid and the queue said "short".

JamareeDec 25, 20145 votes

{quoted}

Having to stop using a game mode because of a design flaw is not the proper course of action.

Not to mention if your champion isnt LCSBIGPLAYS #1 you cannot even find a game in team builder. I was waiting over 5 minutes for cass mid and the queue said "short".

Either be willing to wait longer for a game, or have a better comp so you can get it and grab your role quickly in blind pick.

As for your second point...make your own game?

GorszDec 25, 20147 votes

Apparently you're not fully comprehending the issue.

I have a good computer and a lot of the times I am loading in fast, but people who load after me do not see I already called the position. This is what causes the entire problem.

So nope... a faster computer does not solve this issue. Playing another game mode because of a design flaw does not fix the issue with blind pick.

JamareeDec 25, 20146 votes

{quoted}

Apparently you're not fully comprehending the issue.

I have a good computer and a lot of the times I am loading in fast, but people who load after me do not see I already called the position. This is what causes the entire problem.

So nope... a faster computer does not solve this issue. Playing another game mode because of a design flaw does not fix the issue with blind pick.

Then explain to me what you do want? I'm guessing you want everyone to stall until everyone loads in, or for things posted before they got there to show? Neither of those would fix anything because the people too unwilling to play anything else by that one role will STILL fight over it, you are always going to have people who want the same thing at the same time and people who autolock because fuck other players.

SammystormDec 25, 20141 votes

their is normal draft.

PL55Dec 25, 20141 votes

Problem is with draft all the toxic players from ranked have to go there. Also the call order part of blind isn't going to change and it is still going to be toxic unless Riot admits it's an issue. If you want to avoid having to deal with fights then go with team builder but wait to take roles such as mid and top (Jungle, support, and adc take 10 seconds). Or take the shorter queue time with blind but deal with toxicity in champion select.

AGangPlankMainDec 25, 20144 votes

{quoted}

Then explain to me what you do want? I'm guessing you want everyone to stall until everyone loads in, or for things posted before they got there to show? Neither of those would fix anything because the people too unwilling to play anything else by that one role will STILL fight over it, you are always going to have people who want the same thing at the same time and people who autolock because fuck other players.

Have you never played blind pick or something? I haven't played it in about a year and know how bad it is. What you're basically telling the OP to do is ignore the problem as if that will solve it. Not everyone likes to wait 5-10 min to find a LoL team in team builder. All Riot has to do is implement some sort of system that doesn't let anyone type until everyone has loaded in. Get off your high horse, it's a legit complaint.

JamareeDec 25, 20143 votes

{quoted}

Have you never played blind pick or something? I haven't played it in about a year and know how bad it is. What you're basically telling the OP to do is ignore the problem as if that will solve it. Not everyone likes to wait 5-10 min to find a LoL team in team builder. All Riot has to do is implement some sort of system that doesn't let anyone type until everyone has loaded in. Get off your high horse, it's a legit complaint.

I'm not being on a high horse, I'm saying he is complaining about a problem that is fixed by using the queue specifically made for the problem he is mentioning. And if everyone loaded in at the same time, it wouldn't fix a thing. People would STILL fight over the role they would have fought over before hand.

AGangPlankMainDec 25, 20144 votes

{quoted}

I'm not being on a high horse, I'm saying he is complaining about a problem that is fixed by using the queue specifically made for the problem he is mentioning. And if everyone loaded in at the same time, it wouldn't fix a thing. People would STILL fight over the role they would have fought over before hand.

Yeah you are, not everyone wants to wait in the team builder queue, and once again that's not a legit fix to blind pick. You're talking to him as if he's an idiot and told him to get a better computer. You don't know how good his computer is, and have no right to make that assumption. Most of the problems in blind pick comes from someone loading in slower and not seeing what was said before they call their lane.

JamareeDec 25, 20142 votes

{quoted}

Yeah you are, not everyone wants to wait in the team builder queue, and once again that's not a legit fix to blind pick. You're talking to him as if he's an idiot and told him to get a better computer. You don't know how good his computer is, and have no right to make that assumption. Most of the problems in blind pick comes from someone loading in slower and not seeing what was said before they call their lane.

People are still going to fight over the role even if everyone loads at the same time. The people who fight over roles in blind, will still fight over roles no matter what. The problem is the toxic element on top of the greed of people at said time. Though, if you pick blind pick, that problem is always going to be a thing, thus, you can use team builder and make a perfect custom team of your own choice, don't like that mid, remove it, that support, remove it, etc etc.

AGangPlankMainDec 25, 20142 votes

{quoted}

I know everyone in the game isn't like that, but for the people who are like that, which are the ones he is having problems with in the first place, the fighting will continue. Yes, team builder takes longer, it is the price you pay for less raging over your role and champion select. I personally don't mind waiting just to have this problem fixed.

Yeah, but his whole point is it's happening because of the chat lag due to people loading in later. I also don't mind the wait in team builder, but a lot of people do.

L7xLoTekDec 26, 20142 votes

You know showing chat history as opposed to the fairly pointless x has joined would help quite a bit. It's not a perfect solution, sure, but it would help.

Mike17032Dec 26, 20143 votes

{quoted}

Stop using blind pick then? If you are tired of having to fight and rage over your role, why not use the system in place that allows you to utterly remove that factor?

The team builder WAS added to fix the design problems in blind pick, thats the whole point.

DrCyanideDec 25, 20143 votes

I can't believe someone is seriously suggesting team builder as an alternative to blind pick.

"Team builder" should be renamed "Screw-the-team-I'm-doing-my-own-thing builder". You know why Team builder struggles to find support mains? It's because support mains know that they need to pick based on the ADC/team champion choices. A support main could bounce lobby to lobby trying to find a team where their chosen champion fits, or they could cut out the time wasting and do blind pick. People who want to fill or play a random champion are also left without options in team builder.

Team builder would need to change on a fundamental level to become on par with Blind pick. Blind pick needs to have a change to the chat room for it to be fine. One guess which one of those Riot will get to first.

SmokingPuffinDec 25, 20141 votes

{quoted}

Call order would work fine if the client was equipped to deal with it.

I think call order is inherently broken. Since the internet is never going to have 0ms transit times, we'll always have the problem where it looks like you typed first on your screen, but it looks like I typed first on mine.

Even in the absolute best case, it encourages players to type as fast as possible, rather than considering what's going on with the rest of their team.

"First come first serve" "first one to raise hand gets called on" has been working for a long time in other areas of life.

Anyways what other system could you do for blind pick?

The easiest one I can think of is that the player whose name is higher on the screen gets what they want when there's a conflict. It's arbitrary, it's statistically fair, and it doesn't revolve around a ton of people spamming what they want the instant the queue pops.

The more complicated one is called team builder. I haven't played a blind pick game since it came out.

DrCyanideDec 25, 20142 votes

The chat system would work if chat went to the server then to the person who typed. That way every message has a uniform time stamp and a set order.

Team builder has its own flaws that make it the least desirable mode to me. Unfortunately, the only way around those flaws is a fundamental redesign of Team Builder. It'd be easier (if perceived as laggier) to implement the chat changes.

Diarrhea BubblesMay 17, 20181 votes

Yes, jerks are a problem but this is basic stuff in the software world. Been a software engineer for almost 10 years and this is a pretty standard problem.

Bad UX

CheckMyDoublesDec 25, 20144 votes

You're complaining about something without offering a solution other than, "Riot fix it."

You have two alternate modes of play as suggested by others to avoid this issue. Team builder and draft. Personally, once I switched to draft mode I never looked back at blind pick. You don't always get your first choice, and sometimes you have to fill and play a role you may not have wanted, but other times you'll be first or second pick and can play your choice. That's the trade-off and it's very fair.

You seem to be selfish and want to play your chosen lane and champion in every game (immediately, without the wait from team builder), yet are surprised when others want to as well and arguments and toxicity start because of it. If you aren't willing to be a team player, why should anyone else?

WarCrazyDec 25, 20143 votes

Play draft or team builder.

yellowbricksDec 26, 20143 votes

It saddens me to see so many ignorant responses to the OP's completely legit complaint about the flawed chat system. This is why nothing good ever gets done, everyone is just so complacent with the shitty state of everything in this game, enabling riot to do nothing while rolling in money.

Penguin EclipseDec 26, 20143 votes

The problem isn't call order. The problem is the chat system. The fact that people can call roles before others even get in the room and the late arrivals will never see the message is seriously flawed.

All chat messages should be ordered and visibly time stamped to the ms based on when the server receives them. There is no reason messages have to be showing up in different orders or not at all in a player's client. This problem can be fixed fairly easily.

GorszDec 26, 20142 votes

Exactly my point, yet a few people keep spinning this entire thing into something its not.

AGangPlankMainDec 25, 20142 votes

I believe, Riot should implement a system that doesn't let people type until everyone has loaded into the champion select. Also shout out to all the people who think that switching game modes is the answer. That doesn't fix the problems with blind pick. You're just telling the OP to ignore the problem as if it fixes it. If Riot doesn't want to fix it, then they should just remove the gamemode in general, otherwise this is a legit complaint. Stop treating him as if he's an idiot for not wanting to wait in team builder queues or doing draft.

GorszDec 25, 20143 votes

^^^^^

Exactly.

"This game has a design flaw!"

"Just play another game bro!"

Yeah... problem fixed... I guess?

CriztovDec 25, 20142 votes

The problem has nothing to do with riot's client, and honestly there is NO way that you can completely eliminate the lag time in chat. Do a lot of people want to play (x) role, yes. Blind pick basically is a way for you to have to move out of your comfort zone. The only thing that I might, and I stress might change anything is making it impossible to lock a champion until the whole team has at least clicked on a champion.

Basically if your issue is that 'I never get the role I want because I think I called it and someone else thinks the same thing and so fix the problem' it sounds more like you're just complaining.

If you have your heart set on playing only a certain role and only a certain champion, you are going to have to suck it up and play a game mode that you may not want. If you are just wanting to play a game then suck it up and play one of the other roles that is open on the team.

KnightsundereDec 26, 20142 votes

It's likely not a system they have any intentions on changing, so finding a decent solution is easier than trying to fix it yourself or waiting for an update. Honestly, just learn the other roles if you don't want arguments. Ranked is different as you need to main a role, but for blind pick, just work with what you get and don't complain, really.

Don't misunderstand, I suffer from the same loading issue. But, it's just less stressful to become good at every role then wait for a solution to appear. Plus, you get to put yourself into new situations/champs, which is always a good thing.

RaptameiDec 26, 20142 votes

Blind pick should be based on pick order. Everyone gets 30 seconds to pick, starting with the guy at the top. It's random and therefore fair for everyone.

SelflessTeammateDec 25, 20141 votes

Since it's very likely two or more people will call the same role, anyway, I typically phrase it as something like, "Jungle pref, support secondary". Then I have a backup.

I do wish people would put their secondary choice in, though. It would help prevent that sort of argument.

The "whomever calls it first wins" idea has always been astonishingly, well, stupid, and brings staggering amounts of toxicity to those who should really be playing on TB instead. That's where you go when you want to be very specific in an unranked game.

I think it's the worst when someone queues with one or more people, and then calls their lanes in the same line.

For instance, "BruceSwayne and me bot". That really...Uh, that gets to me. It's bad enough when someone calls a lane and offers no other secondary choice, but to call a lane for you and your buddy? No. No, you don't do something that ignorantly selfish.

The concept behind "Blind Pick" doesn't make sense to me. I mean, you should be able to choose, as you would in TB, a champion ahead of time, and simply be able to switch in the pre-game lobby.

Then everyone already knows what you prefer, and at least that step is taken care of. Granted, there will still be arguing and it's not a solution, but would it really be any worse?

GorszDec 25, 20141 votes

"whomever calls it first wins" would not be astronomically stupid if it was clear on the client who actually called it first.

When the system tells 2 or 3 different people that they called it first then obviously huge problems will arise.

BRBGTGBOWFLEXDec 25, 20141 votes

The loading is not an issue. If you are non-toxic, have good people skills, and explain the situation, you can defuse lane-drama like 80%+ of the time just by politely asking.

The people you can't deal with, well, it wouldn't matter whether or not you all loaded in at the same time, they were going to be toxic anyways and would use any excuse. People who will not listen to reason and people who are going to instalock, they aren't going to change their behavior.

Basically, my issue with your idea is that it seems to suggest that players not seeing calls is the issue, rather than, its just used as an excuse for already toxic players. They'd just use a different excuse or say DUO MID anyways.

JamareeDec 25, 20142 votes

{quoted}

The loading is not an issue. If you are non-toxic, have good people skills, and explain the situation, you can defuse lane-drama like 80%+ of the time just by politely asking.

The people you can't deal with, well, it wouldn't matter whether or not you all loaded in at the same time, they were going to be toxic anyways and would use any excuse. People who will not listen to reason and people who are going to instalock, they aren't going to change their behavior.

Basically, my issue with your idea is that it seems to suggest that players not seeing calls is the issue, rather than, its just used as an excuse for already toxic players. They'd just use a different excuse or say DUO MID anyways.

Thank you, you get it. This is what I'm saying. The people who fight and demand a role as such are the kind of toxic troll people who are going to demand that role no matter what.

GorszDec 25, 20143 votes

You like to grasp at straws, but I understand you like to argue, so you will argue against a positive change to the game just for the sake of arguing.

BRBGTGBOWFLEXDec 31, 20141 votes

You were downvoted by that guy because he's a tool. I upvoted you because hooray you also get it.

GorszDec 25, 20143 votes

You must be new to the internet.

There are many psychological studies on the effects of anonymity on peoples behavior. Lmao good luck with your polite manners and reasoning on the internet in a video game.

I guess you can "reason" with xbox live kids as well right?

Riots system has it where everyone thinks they called first. Yes, there will always be toxic people who do what they want anyway, but if everyone could see timestamped chat it will eliminate the doubt of who called first.

BRBGTGBOWFLEXDec 31, 20141 votes

Alright coward, time to deal with you.

Pseudo intellectuals vaguely appeal to "many psychological studies on the effects of anonymity" but real intellectuals actually know the studies and, more than that, they do their own studies. They also know that the studies do not apply to League of Legends and that Pseudonymity is different from Anonymity.

So, I decided to collect data on several blind pick game lobbies to see if your scenario ever came up. Here are the results.

http://imgur.com/a/TPrxy

Please Note:

In no case were you correct. There was never a time where people disputed pick order and, because of it, became toxic. The people who were toxic did not care at all about who called what-- they picked what they picked regardless and call order did not start a fight.
In the cases where call order was disputed, the lobby helped resolve it.
And, you complete piece of refuse, I attempted to negotiate for desired positions (top/mid) multiple times. EVERY TIME I ATTEMPTED I GOT THE POSITION I REQUESTED.

See the screenshots: "BRBGTGBOWFLEX: I really don't want to support, will anyone let me go top or mid? Rachelllll: sup"

You have no people skills and no reasoning skills. You are complete pseudointellectual trash and a baby who downvotes everyone who agrees with him, because you are impotent, whiny, and wrong.

My best guess is that your experience is caused by two things:

Negativity Bias ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negativity_bias )
That you are the trash starting fights over call order.

#2 basically explains everything. Because you want to treat the community like hostile anonymous others and project your angry insecurities onto them, you make every lobby you enter worse.

We can also see that you are the problem by checking your match history. You have somehow managed to get mid, the most desired role, EVERY ONE OF YOUR LAST TEN GAMES. You have roughly 270 ranked games played and you somehow managed to get mid 250 times. This means you are doing something toxic to get your desired role.

You're complete scum and incapable of reasoning. You just couch yourself in vagueness and make arguments that are actually memetic in nature. The ideas aren't your own thoughts, just bits of junk you recite because you do not think or act as a human being, just a conduit for the ideas of other, real, actual people.

tl;dr You are wrong and a bad person. Get rekt by facts.

DJ Hatsune MikuDec 25, 20141 votes

It's blinds, that is par for the course. Draft is for actually trying, teambuilder for specific desires, and blind is for 5 man premades to stomp that poor bastard trying to level his girlfriend's smurf.

Mike17032Dec 26, 20141 votes

Honestly just use team builder.

What I want is team builder for ranked. I would love to play ranked games, but I have 0 desire to learn how to jungle or support. None. That simply isn't how I want to play the game.

How hard can it be to add a position only team builder for a ranked queue? You would still draft champs during selection, but at least you would be able to pick your position and role.

Stray KatDec 26, 20141 votes

{quoted}

Honestly just use team builder.

What I want is team builder for ranked. I would love to play ranked games, but I have 0 desire to learn how to jungle or support. None. That simply isn't how I want to play the game.

How hard can it be to add a position only team builder for a ranked queue? You would still draft champs during selection, but at least you would be able to pick your position and role.

Problem with that idea is that you'd get people who Queue up as a support(To quickly get a team, as supports are usually in short supply) The first pick ADC/Top/Jung/Mid anyway. The only way to stop it is to pick the champs when the roles are picked, which removes the draft part. And even if that were the case, you'd still get trolls picking X-Champ in support, and not actually playing it, just to get faster Queue times, etc.

AlamarianDec 26, 20141 votes

{quoted}

Honestly just use team builder.

I stopped using team builder because the match making doesn't seem balanced. Very stompy. It always feels like my team has people all ranked above gold and the enemy has one silver and a bunch of under 30's or vice versa. We either go 40-10 or 10-40. I get much more even games in blind, I feel.

HeadHonchkrowDec 26, 20141 votes

lol but this is SOOOOO true

LysergsaureDec 26, 20141 votes

Personally, I feel like you should just play draft if that's such a big issue for you.

Yes, it takes longer to get into games with the whole pick/ban process, but most people (and I'm sure plenty of people already disagree with me) will respect pick order in draft. It's why they play draft.

Normal draft is kind of a pain because there's no penalty except time for dodging. People are much more reluctant to dodge in Ranked Draft queues.

Plus, in draft you never have mirror matches, which are not a good thing to be used to. You'll never see a mirror in ranked or competitive play.

Surr20plzDec 26, 20141 votes

They should make it so that you can't pick until the person above you picks. That would end all the bullshit.

Korra x AsamiDec 26, 20141 votes

A duo mid game is not a ruined game

grandyoloJul 1, 20171 votes

i agree

Diarrhea BubblesMay 17, 20181 votes

You're absolutely right. The entire chat should be locked and the timer shouldn't start until every player has loaded. It causes confusion and when you have a short time limit to try to slap together a team and a rune page it's really frustrating.