Twin Ghosts and how they should be handled

Potato Doc··2 votes·765 views

Its really obvious that in just about every game you see 4 frost queens claims being built.

The problem that arises from tons of ghosts being used on the map is just that, there are too many being used blindly. The fact that 4 of them are built regularly in games is not only frustrating but far too rewarding now especially since they are basically heat seeking missiles with true vision. So what needs to change with these.

Well you have a few options,

  1. Make them like kalista ghosts, but only going up to their maximum range then disappearing. You click in a direction and the ghosts go. They are not heat seeking until they actually spot a champion. If they lose sight of a champion they head in the general direction a champion would have gone until they either see them again or run out of range. They do not however reveal UNTIL they touch the intended target (prevents from over lapping too much with kalista)

[ex. Pantheon walks into a bush, the ghost follows into the bush, if pantheon is able to stay in the fog of war the ghost then follows the longest path to its maximum range, if it however is still able to see pantheon it will continue to follow]

Why do this change? It emphasizes warding and using proper vision control instead of blind casting. The ghosts in this case should be used as either a limited guard/deterrent, or for a chasing down an opponent, rewarding for educated guesses, weakens blind usage.

  1. Limit the range: reduce the range so that using them is more about knowing an opponent is nearby then just hoping one is.

Why do this change? Again to prevent the whole blind casting for profit. They still target nearby enemies regardless of vision, but the range is easy enough to escape from if you know they are coming. I will relate this to the issue with snowball in regular ARAM, they nerfed the distance launched and damage dealt to balance it. While the snowball still sees a lot of play its no where near the strength it used to be.

  1. Reduce/remove the slow, and make it more of a vision only item. The fact that the ghosts give vision on top of slowing is so strong, just the fact they seek out for vision would be strong enough by itself. Thematically yes this would make the least sense, but hey its a frost blade that shoots ghosts, not really thematic in any sense already.

Why do this change? Vision by itself is super strong, and it honestly doesn't need an additive. Games are won and lost due to tons/lack of vision. The slow is what is pushing this active over the top

12 Comments

BluePolarizer1 votes

It was actually buffed compared to the old Twin Shadows. Old Twin Shadows only slowed for 2.5 seconds.

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

Ah. So that's why there are so many random ghosts. Did not notice the FQC change.

Raoul1 votes

The problem is that mages have basicly no good CDR options and are FORCED to build Frost Queens for a good CDR Item that is not overpriced as hell!

Lost Hp1 votes

it will get a nerf in the next patch

it will have a 16 sec cd on his passive after killing a minion

so no longer extra damage and gold income for players who need to kill minions

12 sec not 16 my mistake and the changes got already reverted see bottom

Potato Doc1 votes

Isnt that what it used to be anyways?

Delofasht1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lost Hp,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=662wk3dh,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-12-30T03:07:42.791+0000)

it will get a nerf in the next patch

it will have a 16 sec cd on his passive after killing a minion

so no longer extra damage and gold income for players who need to kill minions

This isn't how they plan to fix it. The gold income isn't the issue, and that isn't why it is bought. The CDR is part of the issue and the 4s slow is the other. From what I've read the plan is to make it a scaling slow from 2s to 4s based on how far the ghost has traveled.

Spaceman5pff1 votes

Right the ghosts ARE the issue.

However, taking the gp5 penalty will deter solo laners from taking this item as it is a HUGE hit to it since it no longer functions sorta like a long-term avarice blade.

Potato Doc1 votes

But you are thinking of solo laners instead of supports, the supports shouldn't get shafted because another role likes to use it

Delofasht1 votes

{quoted}

Right the ghosts ARE the issue.

However, taking the gp5 penalty will deter solo laners from taking this item as it is a HUGE hit to it since it no longer functions sorta like a long-term avarice blade.

Once again the gold generation isn't the issue here. It's not a big hit to the buying order of a mid laner, it's the extra fight CC as shown in the Lost Hp's post. With the CC reduced by range it makes it better in lanes other than mid, and also makes it less attractive as an option. I don't like the fact that they mess with the mana regen though.

Lost Hp1 votes

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-abFgnz-PQWg/VnHM--K1LBI/AAAAAAAA2I8/N0E48mfStvI/s1600/fqc.jpg

here the last update on the intem from the ptr the 12 sec cd got reverted

and here a red post to it

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/ujXlbawa-intro-andrei-meddler-van-roon-lead-gameplay-designer?comment=00040000

Our current thought is that it's fine if FQC is an option for mid laners, provided it isn't crowding out other item options. We're also seeing FQC be more dominant than it should be on duo laners too, so current intent is to nerf the mana regen and change the slow duration so that it scales based off how far the ghosts have traveled (worse point blank, slightly better at really long ranges). Goal there is to reward the more distinct use cases (scouting/long range catch) over the mid combat extra CC.

Potato Doc1 votes

Oh i guess that's what I thought of.

Lost Hp1 votes

Time is money!

It is easier and less time intensive to fix 1 intem/mastery as to nerf/buff x amount champions/masterys

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