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Yet another Rek'Sai nerf.

Only Play Darius··41 votes·5,200 views
5/14 PBE Update

"Base HP lowered to 570 from 611.2" She is now squishier than MasterYi at the start of the game, for her the most critical phase of the game where she needs to make successful ganks to get her team ahead.

Can we just stop nerfing our favorite void queen? She is in a fine spot now, even if that spot is a pseudo-tank knockup bot since they nerfed her damage to the point that there is almost no reason to build offense on her. But it's alright, each time they nerfed her damage, they buffed her mobility and knockup to solidify her as just an annoying one-trick pony of an AOE knockup, but I digress.

Rek'Sai was designed as a carry jungler, notice that she is labeled strictly as a fighter, not fighter/tank, yet people often build pure tank on her. As much as I would like to see her rip apart teams like she did on release, it seems clear that Riot isn't going to be buffing her damage anytime soon. However, Rek'Sai is in a fine spot balance wise, and I don't think she needs any changes whatsoever. If they are nerfing her base health because of all the people building item 3717 + straight tank on her during MSI, then this change is unnecessary because cinderhulk just got nerfed. If they were to nerf her base health but buff her AD scalings, then it would be reasonable because they would be allowing for an alternative assassin-type playstyle and build path, but that is clearly not the case.

I just don't see any reason to give her yet another nerf. She seems to be getting nerfed every other patch and some context for this particularly heavy nerf would be well appreciated.

60 Comments

4nth0l0gy23 votes

I really miss damage RekSai...I'd rather Rek'Face than Tank'Sai any day.

doubleguac5 votes

I think Riot kind of painted themselves into a corner with her kit. She's manaless, she has strong built in sustain, she clears quickly, and she has far and away the most strategic mobility in the game. These tools let her constantly put pressure all over the map. In order to balance that level of strategic presence, I think Riot is having to constantly nerf her tactical strength--the amount that she personally can contribute to a fight.

I think it's analogous, though not identical, to the situation we saw with Eve following the vision changes in S4. She was insanely hard to ward against, which made it extremely difficult for teams to predict where she would be. So Riot had to gut her damage.

The problem is... I don't know if this pattern is particularly satisfying to play as or against.

Only Play Darius3 votes

Being a knockup bot for your team isn't really fun to play. Playing against a champ that is just going to knock you in the air every 5 sec then dash away while her team jumps on you isn't exactly stimulating to play against. But it seems like it's going to stay that way until Riot finds a way to properly balance super-high pressure junglers Elise Evelynn RekSai.

doubleguac1 votes

Ya totally agree with everything you say here.

I wonder if Riot has thought about nerfing her clear times rather than her skirmishing (by, maybe, reducing the damage Q does to monsters/minions). This would let her keep some of her strategic pressure, AND make her still feel like more of a knock-up bot. But she'd be punished harder if she was trying to constantly gank and wasn't picking up kills/assists.

Sona Ping1 votes

I suppose the lesson here is that if you design a champion to be superb at something [Elise RekSai (or give them too much stuff, for that matter Yasuo )] the only way to then balance them is to make everything else mediocre.

Only Play Darius1 votes

Aww man, release Rek'Sai was so fun. Now the only time I get to build more than one damage item on her and get away with it is when i'm fed....

Lil Soybean12 votes

Whereas most champions 'resource' is something that inhibits their spellcasting, Rek'Sai has 0 mana costs as well as getting free healing off of her 'resource'.

I think the point is that her sustain is so good that she doesn't need such high level 1 hp.

And besides, she was excellent before Cinderhulk. Resourceless, great map pressure, great duelest, good teamfighter, and quite mobile too.

She's just been less popular because we've been seeing tons and tons of Sejuani and Gragas, so from our soloq experience, she hasn't been that 'oppressive'. But when she's picked, I guess she can win some fights/make some early towerdives happen a little bit too easily.

Only Play Darius9 votes

Never thought about her passive that way, I guess it makes sense. I just don't want her to go the way of Elise.

stuartk117 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5vKsBkqH,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-05-15T04:00:30.159+0000)

Never thought about her passive that way, I guess it makes sense. I just don't want her to go the way of Elise.

I think that everyone would like to avoid that.

Can we make Rek'Sai more of a strong early game jungler, and instead hit her hp scaling and damage scaling rather than base damage and base hp?

Only Play Darius1 votes

But i'm in Bronze5 elo where we don't know how to close out games I don't like the idea of champs that clearly fall off late game lol.

stuartk111 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5vKsBkqH,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2015-05-15T22:16:27.786+0000)

But i'm in Bronze5 elo where we don't know how to close out games I don't like the idea of champs that clearly fall off late game lol.

Easier to close out games when you have a larger gold lead and pressure though. Especially if the enemy jungler isn't ganking as often as you are able to effectively.

LankPants1 votes

She's just been less popular because we've been seeing tons and tons of Sejuani and Gragas, so from our soloq experience, she hasn't been that 'oppressive'. But when she's picked, I guess she can win some fights/make some early towerdives happen a little bit too easily.

Are you sure about that? In soloque you might see more Sej and Gragas but at MSI Rek did have a 100% pick/ban rate.

Lil Soybean1 votes

{quoted}

Are you sure about that? In soloque you might see more Sej and Gragas but at MSI Rek did have a 100% pick/ban rate.

What do you mean? That's pretty much exactly what I just said.

"...we've been seeing tons and tons of Sejuani and Gragas, so from our soloq experience..." We've been seeing them a ton in soloq instead of Rek'Sai, so some people in soloq might not realize how strong she is.

But where Rek'Sai appears, such as at MSI, she dominates.

Darth Pixy Misa10 votes

She was picked 95% at MSI

SavagePenetrator2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Katrina Steiner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5vKsBkqH,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-05-15T03:57:03.313+0000)

She was picked 95% at MSI

are you fucking high, she wasnt picked more than 50% at MSI, and she was a nonfactor in most games.

ProfDrDeath8 votes

Because she banned in the remainder.

And she was a nonfactor? Lmao.

Raxistaicho7 votes

[{quoted}](name=Katrina Steiner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5vKsBkqH,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-05-15T03:57:03.313+0000)

She was picked 95% at MSI

So that means she needs to be made useless for SoloQ? This is the exact reason Elise is in the awful spot she's in now. Pros were too good as her, so now nobody gets to use her.

Meanwhile, Nunu has the highest win rate in the game and goes untouched.

qetzel1 votes

You need to balance around both pro play and soloqueue.

Why do you think Nunu hasn't been hit recently? Could it be because Riot think many players just don't know how to deal with pressure in the jungle? Think about it. Nunu is really the only counter-jungler we have at the moment. His play-style is unique. Should he be nerfed because people don't know how to play around him?

Also, how much of that win rate is due to cinderhulk? How will that change affect him?

Only Play Darius1 votes

IDK about Nunu I personally have yet to see him carry his team in my Teambuilder/SoloQ games.

LankPants1 votes

She was picked 95% at MSI

You're swinging a little low there, she was picked or banned in every single game, 100% pick/ban rate.

http://i.imgur.com/5D8QAHw.jpg

Fadedpf6 votes

Cinderhulk nerf was to its DAMAGE not how tanky it made you. Reksai is going to be a good jungler even after the damage nerfs and this slight health nerf. You actually have to add a little thinking into her ganks now. Which is something nice considering she had some of the best ganks with small risks.

Dr Poro4 votes

You're right... She's already in a below-average spot right now (49% winrate on the ladder). I was really surprised when I saw the nerf on reksai while there are so many champs where it would be more appropriate.

Darth Pixy Misa3 votes

Well, pick / ban was actually 100%

Hard4Hamsters3 votes

Riot is sexist. They don't want women in the jungle to be successful early on. Elise Evelynn Vi RekSai Nidalee . (granted, Vi didn't get nerfed that hard)

Apollocliptic4 votes

[{quoted}](name=MyNamesAmsToki ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5vKsBkqH,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-05-15T05:07:28.076+0000)

Riot is sexist. They don't want women in the jungle to be successful early on. Elise Evelynn Vi RekSai Nidalee . (granted, Vi didn't get nerfed that hard)

I think I have to weigh in here, isn't Vi The BEST early on jungle. Her and Lee are frequently the only junglers I see do level 2 ganks, Vi even more so than Lee, and her damage, tank, mobility, teamfight power is useful right from the start and only gets better as she builds more items. She might lack sustain early, but that's like the ONLY thing she doesn't have, otherwise you'd see Vi gank all 3 lanes within the first 5 minutes, oh wait, I HAVE!

Hard4Hamsters1 votes

Damn I got a lot of downvotes. :P

I was just referencing the recent nerfs she received right before Cinderhulk was introduced. It was a joke. All of those junglers are REALLY good in the early game, but fall off later in the game. (some more than others)

Yep Vi is one of the best. I don't know why she's not played anymore by the pros when Sej, Grag, and Rek'sai get banned out all the time.

Apollocliptic1 votes

[{quoted}](name=MyNamesAmsToki ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5vKsBkqH,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2015-05-16T01:51:38.485+0000)

Damn I got a lot of downvotes. :P

I was just referencing the recent nerfs she received right before Cinderhulk was introduced. It was a joke. All of those junglers are REALLY good in the early game, but fall off later in the game. (some more than others)

Yep Vi is one of the best. I don't know why she's not played anymore by the pros when Sej, Grag, and Rek'sai get banned out all the time.

I didn't downvote you :P

Kariu Rena3 votes

Did you know that reksai has a passive

Merxamers3 votes

I only just started playing as Rek'sai and i think she probably deserves the nerfs. She has crazy mobility, dueling capabilities, ganking presence, map pressure, and tankiness at pretty much every level of the game. The only damage item you need is black cleaver and then you're a monster.

PS: It's pretty hilarious how hard she counters shaco. He turned invisible? Just burrow and use tremor sense :)

Only Play Darius1 votes

I will agree that the new Black Cleaver was a buff to Rek'Sai, since she needs the extra hp, has a hard time itemizing CDR, and has sustained AOE damage so she stacks the passive very nicely although i'm still partial to item 3074.

Mandang03 votes

Posts like these are why I can't take Reksai nerf QQ seriously - you spew lies about how she's a weak champ when she's picked reliably in competitive play.

Honestly, I think it's just that solo queue doesn't make good enough use of her ult, but instead those players look at damage potential to declare her weak. She SHOULD have low damage, given the fact she has a global ult and a ton of mobility (added that last point to preempt any 'bbbut Pantheon' arguments).

Solaxo3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5vKsBkqH,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-05-15T03:44:39.200+0000) Can we just stop nerfing our favorite void queen?

only* void queen

Zair Umbras3 votes

Rek'Sai doesn't really need nerfs... She's popular because she has such a unique kit that gives utility to the team and decent-ish damage. She was created to be a bruiser with a Devourer Enchant, a Hydra, and then tanky items. She was meant to be a BRUISER, but her ratios outside of her E are so garbage that building anymore than a Hydra isn't noticeable enough.

Her Q only gives a max of 60% of her bonus AD. Her W only does 40% of her bonus AD, and her E is not only on a long CD, but its damage is based upon its level and how much fury you have. At max, it does 120% to 240% of total AD as True Damage. When you roll a lot of AD, it can HURT. Like, you can make it do Cho'Gath Feast damage, but unlike Cho she needs about 300 bonus AD to do about 900 damage while cho only needs a RoA and a Rabadons. See the issue though? That's a tanky AP item that gives Cho 650 health on top of Cho's R's health while Rek would need Hydra, BT, and another AD item to get the 300 bonus, so even her E can't do much.

Her BIGGEST offender is how her burst is set up... it involves using her E at the most fury possible and nothing actually increases her fury generation. She doesn't have the boost to generation against Champions like Ren, but she also doesn't consume Fury when she uses her E. One of the biggest fixes I could say is make her E consume fury and boost her amount of fury generated so she can actually be able to get off that E. It would also give her a choice when jungling early on. You'd either use it to heal or use it to clear.

Currently, she gains 5 fury for AA's, 15 bonus on the first AA or ability after unborrowed, and 10 for hitting with abilities while unborrowed. When she unborrows, that's 25 (the bonus also applies to abilities), then 5 from the AA, for 30, then she'd get off her Q's to total 30 more since her Q makes her AA's give 10 instead of 5, plus 2.5 for every target hit beyond the first, which isn't much. This means with a full combo, she'd have 60. If she manages to land on 2 targets with full Q's, that'd be 70 fury. 3 targets for 80, 4 targets for 90. To get full fury to press E, she has to hit ALL 5 ENEMIES during a full combo, which is incredibly uncommon. She has no way of increasing this either.

If she gained even just 5 more fury against champions, she'd be worth playing as AD again with her bases sucking since you'd be able to get off that scary E. You're already restrained by having to attack 4 times, though it's as fast as 3 since her Q is an AA reset thank god. It would also justify the constant nerfs to her tankiness since she wouldn't have to go pure tank just to be relevant.

Ser Garland2 votes

Her concept was never supposed to be a vanguard tank/bruiser. Which is how people are building her. Her champion spotlight on release stated that she can never out trade an enemy jungler in a one on one fair fight (which was a complete lie) but that she's the type of champion who scavenges when counter jungling. Like Shaco, she's supposed to wait in the shadows and strike when she has the advantage. her mobility and cc would see to that.

On release however, she could strike full health Khazix's when SHE was half health and STILL come out on top.

Zirket Was2 votes

Let's speak about that "waiting in the shadow" that they promised. She is visible and have sight problem. How is that "waiting in the shadow"?

Only Play Darius2 votes

Except people aren't playing or building her as an assassin at all (unless they got fed, in which they can afford to build some damage items). They just build her pure tank and abuse her AOE knockup for the team. Somehow I don't think she was designed with that playstyle in mind.

Widder882 votes

Release Rek'sai was the most broken champion i saw in LoL ever. And she is has still too much damage/tankyness. This nerf seems right.

Only Play Darius2 votes

Except that was release Rek'Sai. She may have been clearly overtuned, but she wasn't completely out-of-control like release XinZhao Zyra Leblanc.

The two patches immediately after her release they nerfed the shit out of her damage scalings, at this point people stop building more than one damage item for her, and usually the one damage item they build is more for utility than scalings (item 3074 for waveclear, item 3071 for armor shred etc.). Then a few patches later they nerf her Q scaling out of nowhere, making the total scaling form .9 to .6. Now they nerf her base health.

The probem with Rek'Sai is people are building straight tank and using her AOE knockup every 5 seconds, which is frustrating to play against, but also a playstyle that Riot encouraged since they buffed her knockup and mobility each time they nerfed her damage. I think they need to even out Rek'Sai's damage-utility ratio a little more, right now it is way too far to the utility side.

yingyang grey2 votes

The nerf is uncalled for especially with a ver mediocre win rate she is now highly available for a low health invade. 50 health means alot for rek sai. If you die in a bank or get invaded your tunnels will create less pressure mid through late game where the 50 health won't matter as much.

apparently riot took are money and ran.

white quard2 votes

why riot must get her nerfed every f***ng patch omg first they nerfed her mobility then attck speed then her q then her health then now radius of unburrow why the fuk now is only limit time when rek sai will become unmobile and unplayable why rito pls buff her only one patch omg item 1036 ;(

Newb the Legend1 votes

I honestly miss Rek'Sai as the carry jungler she was. I used to like playing her so much but now she seems boring and is just another tank jungler that has 1 cc ability, 1. I feel like she has an identity crisis of being a tank, with how people build her to be viable now, but her kit is meant for damage

Only Play Darius1 votes

Exactly. She is designed as a carry jungler, but with her ratios being nerfed and her knockup/mobility being buffed, people have found that it is just best to build straight tank and use her as a knockup bot. I wish damage Rek'Sai could be viable, the way she is being played/built right now, the only thing that differentiates her from other tank junglers is her map presence.

Nidalee SO NYAAA1 votes

Are they doing this ALL because of MSI? In Solo Q she has a winrate of 50.60% while Nunu has a 55.92% win and Sej has a 56.72% and even Amumu has a 55.32% winrate. So if I look at the stats alone there many junglers are doing so much then she is. Oh to make you guys happy Nid has a 48.91% winrate :)

Vistha Kai2 votes

That's only thanks to those 52%+ tank junglers Nidalee has low winrate.

Vistha Kai1 votes

But when Nidalee jungle was pick-or-ban for 2 months Riot didn't bat an eye.

Abyssphere2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5vKsBkqH,comment-id=0016,timestamp=2015-05-15T20:33:54.656+0000)

But when Nidalee jungle was pick-or-ban for 2 months Riot didn't bat an eye.

She got nerfed twice and nobody plays her anymore lol. Just because she wasn't gutted doesn't mean Riot did nothing.

Vistha Kai2 votes

"She got nerfed". She now has 50HP less and traps don't deal %max damage.

Don't make me laugh.

She isn't played much because of the tank meta. Let's wait until it tones down and Nidalee will once again become a living cancer.

Abyssphere3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5vKsBkqH,comment-id=001600000000,timestamp=2015-05-15T21:30:31.342+0000)

"She got nerfed". She now has 50HP less and traps don't deal %max damage.

Don't make me laugh.

She isn't played much because of the tank meta. Let's wait until it tones down and Nidalee will once again become a living cancer.

Nidalee lost 30-200 health. Rek'Sai just lost 40. That nerf alone was objectively bigger than this one.

And yes the loss of % HP on her traps was a nerf, if you really think that's not a nerf then you know nothing about the game. Her traps do no damage to anyone now, before they were actually quite potent even without levels in the ability.

Like I said, just because Nidalee wasn't gutted doesn't mean she wasn't nerfed. She was hit with real nerfs twice and both of those nerfs were bigger than the one Rek'Sai is currently looking at.

Vistha Kai1 votes

Nidalee isn't a bruiser for a long time. She goes in and kills you or dies. Traps have very limited utility (basically requires for your enemy to be a retard) and doesn't influence anything other than her killing jungle faster.

Don't get me wrong. I don't care about Rek'Sai one bit.

leko bel zet 1 votes

why do i see another Aatrox in the making ......yea this WAS a very nice champ.

the poster said strictly fighter now build her like a fighter and she is not viable so you need to go pure tank with 1 dmg item to be even relevant aka a "knock bot"....... not viable in solo Q anymore where you might need to carry....... yea i miss AD rek'sai !

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