A note to jg mains: If you gank my lane, don't last hit my whole wave of creeps after you gank

Malicious Fury·Apr 25, 2017·23 votes·2,843 views

Title. If you want to push my lane, that's fine. Just let me (the adc) get the last hits on the wave. It really irks me when junglers clear waves after ganking. The last game this happened in I lost 40 cs before the laning phase was over because he wanted to push for the tower. I asked him nicely to not last hit because I was physically there trying to last hit them and he basically said too bad, the lane needs to be pushed. Do you realize you can push and still let me have the last hits? It's really easy to do. Hit each minion one or twice and let me aa each one once for the last hit.

Thanks

70 Comments

Mataka TekApr 25, 20178 votes

I agree with Crewx.... If I come "a gankin" and you get the kill, the least you can do is spare me a few Cs for my effort. If I get the kill, then I should let you get the Cs and if needed push the lane.

What I don't like is when I have to cover for a lane's turret after YOU DIE or leave lane, and then you ping me to tell me "dont farm" TOO BAD... that is the cost of wasting my time to cover your lane.

PaquayApr 25, 20176 votes

Agreed. I hate when there's minions being massacred by the turret and a laner is just leaving the fountain and is pinging you like you're committing a crime.

Like, I'm sorry Yas, I didn't realize you had a global ult to magically get here and grab this CS.

MissingKayoApr 25, 20175 votes

That has absolutely fucking nothing to do about what this thread is about.

PaquayApr 25, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mataka Tek,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5raiFuNB,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-04-25T18:45:50.707+0000)

What I don't like is when I have to cover for a lane's turret after YOU DIE or leave lane, and then you ping me to tell me "dont farm

I guess it helps if you actually check who I replied to. I was agreeing with Mataka, not commenting directly to the OP.

MissingKayoApr 25, 20173 votes

Both of you made a completely irrelevant remark.

OP said absolutely nothing about last hitting minions under tower when they're not there.

PaquayApr 25, 20173 votes

It's completely irreverent because a jungler is chiming in about how HE operates when in the jungle? Also, he is basically supporting the OP in saying he would only take a few CS here and there depending on the outcome of the gank. Rather than try to tax the entire lane.

Not quite sure how all of that is irrelevant. Why are you so mad?

Yaśuo MainApr 25, 20173 votes

Of course I fucking have a global ult to get the CS. It's in one of my passives god damn it. Along with the passive "Every Toxic Player In The Game Is Playing Yasuo" which has just applied

Like, I'm sorry Yas

#HERE

Malicious FuryApr 25, 20173 votes

there's minions being massacred by the turret and a laner is just leaving the fountain

http://pix.iemoji.com/images/emoji/apple/ios-9/256/thinking-face.png

I asked him nicely to not last hit because I was physically there trying to last hit them

PaquayApr 25, 20175 votes

See above. Notice how I replied to someone else and not you? The puzzled looking emoji is you trying to figure out how reply works I am assuming, lol.

But if you really want a response on the topic, I agree with most everyone here, it depends who gets the kill, where the wave is at, where the other enemies are at, what objectives are up, etc. it is very situationally dependent but for the most part, if I get the kill, I don't need to tax the lane. If I only get an assist or we only get summoners out of it, if there are no camps to go steal or objectives to hit, I am going to tax for my time coming to lane. Your advantage is having your opponent pushed out so he loses CS and falls behind.

Mr KillalotApr 25, 20173 votes

This exactly. If I, as the jungler, spend my time coming to your lane to get you an advantage, I'm going to get gold out of it. My typical rules are:

If I get a kill, I take no cs
If the laner gets a kill, I'm taking at least three
If I get a flash, I'm taking one or two

I understand the frustration though, some people tax TF out of lanes for no reason. If your jungler does get you an advantage though, you owe him some gold.

MissingKayoApr 25, 20173 votes

What is with people not reading properly? It has fucking nothing to do with taking like 2, 3 max after getting an assist or flash. It's about clearing an entire wave and pushing for no reason which literally offsets your laner even farther behind in terms of wave advantage and risks him getting killed by the enemy jungler gank and forced to play unsafe or risk losing a lot of CS.

Mr KillalotApr 27, 20171 votes

I mean I sypathized with you. I'm just stating the proper ways to do it

Variks the LoyalApr 25, 20176 votes

Depends.

If you get the kill from the gank, I'll last hit the minions.

If I get the kill, I won't last hit the minions.

If there's no kill but still needs pushing, I'll take the caster minions and leave melees and cannons for you.

Malicious FuryApr 25, 20173 votes

For an assist you get half the kill gold split among the people who got an assist per kill. Taking more is being greedy and you're only hurting your carry.

MissingKayoApr 25, 20172 votes

There's a difference between taking 2-3 as normal/proper and clearing the whole wave.

CheapKillApr 25, 20176 votes

If you don't pay your taxes, you don't get ganks.

MissingKayoApr 25, 20172 votes

Do you understand what reading comprehension is? No, you don't, because otherwise you wouldn't have made such a stupid comment.

A tax is no more than 2-3 minions. Last time I checked, a whole wave isn't 2-3.

ProfDrDeathApr 25, 20171 votes

Depends on how bad the jungler screws up the last-hits...

PaquayApr 25, 20171 votes

And it depends on who your king is... some kings charge higher taxes. :P

AlleoApr 26, 20171 votes

Except 2-3 minions is not worth the same amount of gold as a kill or 2.

MissingKayoApr 26, 20171 votes

no fucking shit that's not the point and before you do ask, I play jungle a fuck ton as well

AlleoApr 26, 20171 votes

Then don't complain. If I spend time away from my jungle to gank and I only get an assist YOU do not get to say how much my time was worth.

MissingKayoApr 26, 20171 votes

Um the whole point of the jungle ganks to put the laner ahead of their enemy laner since they will be IN the same lane against the SAID LANER for a lot longer continuously than you will (obviously).

An assist gives them less gold. The kill gives them more gold to gain a bigger lead over their enemy which they can utilize better.

You are not continuously dueling anyone. You don't need as much gold when the only chance of someone contesting you is the enemy jungler which is infrequent. Otherwise, the jungle farm you do and you getting Dragons/other objectives is enough.

All of the earlygame jungler either have CC or high early damage regardless of gold. All the damage carry junglers scale incredibly well in damage in lategame regardless of gold as long as they do decent. The point is to put the enemy laners behind so your laners CAN do carrying.

You should learn what you're talking about.

AlleoApr 27, 20171 votes

And you didn't even address what my response was. You don't get to decide what your jungler thinks a fair tax is. End of discussion.

RákãñApr 25, 20174 votes

Take a few camps from his jungle while its pushed in return for the lost gold. It's what I do. I'd get his gromp and wolves or grugs. If he has no camps to clear, he'll likely to gank lanes more often.

Malicious FuryApr 25, 20172 votes

When he sees you taking his camps he's going to ? spam ping you then he'll start to actually farm your lane on a regular basis. I ask nicely to stop. If he doesn't care, then I ask him to not complain when I'm not going to carry the team at all.

RákãñApr 25, 20171 votes

I just take more camps really. I'm behind in gold, I rather farm for it.

KoggyStyleApr 26, 20171 votes

ill help early krug clears redside if i have nothing better to do, no im not going to kill em while you are there i just know they how low they can make off meta lower teir jungles, if your ganking bot and my waves pushing into their turret but i have no ward ill clear krugs n b, im also prone to taking scuttles and roaming mid XD

PaquayApr 25, 20171 votes

There's an easy fix for that. Ping omw to your lane opponent, target lane opponent, once you go in, casually walk away and let you die. Spam ping ? On your corpse. Ahh sometimes jungling can be rewarding. ;)

RákãñApr 25, 20172 votes

Fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice, shame on me.

Would work only once, and I ignore you for the rest of the game.

PaquayApr 25, 20171 votes

Yeah, it would probably only work once, but it'd be well worth a gromp or wolves just for the lol. Besides, it's easier for a jungler to visit a lane and take CS than it is for a laner to go to the jungle for a camp or two imo.

Some people around here are wayyy too serious. It's sad because your solution is about 100 times better than other people filling buckets with their tears and saying they'd report.

RákãñApr 26, 20171 votes

There no really any need to beg for reports really. A single report will enough to have the system to take a note of the game and Riot can make their own judgement if the disruptive behavior continues. I rather keep on playing and enjoy the game while the other people tilt and I can have a nice show on the chat.

MissingKayoApr 25, 20172 votes

Which is reportable as part of unsportsmanlike behavior and under the category "Intentionally Feeding" as it includes assisting the enemy team which isn't necessarily limited to just you feeding.

ÇhåryzårdApr 25, 20174 votes

If my jungle successfully ganks and we get something from it then he can have some of my minions.

If he ganks and we get nothing out of it then don't take my minions.

I'm not gonna "pay taxes" for walking into my lane and walking out, we get something for the payment or no payment.

But if we get something out of it take as much of the wave as you want XD

Oh Look KaedeApr 25, 20173 votes

Cough cough NightBlue3

AlleoApr 26, 20171 votes

Woah dude! Quit taxing my lanneeee!

PlsCheckThisBushApr 25, 20173 votes

RekSai main here. I'll always try to donate the kills over to the laner as well as the CS while pushing the wave as it gives us a significant advantage in map pressure and frees me up to go into their jungle. It also boosts morale, and the team will (hopefully) respond to my assistance pings if I'm being invaded or collapsed upon as they see me as a valuable component of the team and not a KDA-padding player.

That being said, if I'm 0/2/10 and at 50 CS at 10 minutes ganking everyone and denying my own farm while you're 10/2/0 with 110 CS, I'm probably going to take a few creeps to try and catch up as best as I can. I'm not exclusively going to walk up into lane and start taxing, if I've already given my laner a significant advantage and they decide to not utilize their power to help other lanes to some degree or press their advantage in lane, you can bet your ass I'll be cleaning up those waves. Nothing irks myself (and lots of other junglers) more than when we camp a lane and get them fed, only to watch them sit in lane trying to pad their scores while other lanes are getting dominated and get to that "MOM GET THE CAMERA I'M GOING TO FLASH TUMBLE IN AND 1V9" point. If you're ahead, press your advantage and use it to help the other lanes that we can't. If you decided not to, we have no other options than to help others that will or make ourselves the carry in that position.

And for the love of all that you believe in buy a Control (~~Pink~~) Ward. You don't need that extra Rejuv. Bead to be 1 inch closer to the Tiamat, a Control Ward will save your life and stop me from having to go babysit your lane when you inevitably die overextended and spam "?" Ping on me while /all chatting "gg report our jg afk noob no ganks open mid ff20plz." I'll happily make my way to your lane if their jungler is bullying you - that's what I'm there for. If you're losing 1v1/2v2 and die to the Lee Sin that just walks up and Q -> Q -> R's you under tower because you weren't warded, that isn't my problem, and now we're a man down and I'm at risk of getting dove while I lose out of valuable farming/counter-jungling.

Also: Feel free to take my camps if I'm not remotely close to the area. It actually helps me, as jungle monsters don't naturally level up on their own and will give more XP the next time I'm around the area. I'll happily give Blue to mid and Red to our ADC, but I strongly dislike when a Varus (or similar champion that can sneak poke in) walks up and Q's my Raptors/Krugs while I'm clearing them taking half the gold. It's a heavy slap in the face to our already minuscule Gold gaining ability. We can barely break even with laners when we're far ahead in regards to Gold/XP, and it's just putting us further behind.

FooDangApr 25, 20172 votes

40 cs? was he taxing every wave? lol

TakazakiApr 26, 20172 votes

pay your taxes or you dont get ganks

TheSingularityApr 26, 20172 votes

As a tank jungle main this is my rule of thumb: For ganks: Was it successful? Yes. (burnt their sums without team mate burning sums) No kill. Tax 3 minions Yes. (a Kill was secured regardless of sums by ME!). No tax, if the lane is already shoving towards enemy tower I will use AOE to speed up the push without taxing. Yes. (a kill was secured regardless of sums by my team mates) I will tax 3 minions or a cannon. I will then proceed as above in regards to shoving. Yes. (a countergank or save. I didn't get you any money however I deprived the enemy of money and possibly wasted their sums by keeping you alive). I will shove the wave and tell you to B. If you're low enough to need saving you shouldn't be in lane. And this way the XP and gold doesn't go to waste by dying to tower. If they tell me to leave I will leave. Simple. Their lane their rules. But this goes both ways but more on that later

No (no sums were burnt, no kill). No tax. **Because I've already soaked some XP from the minions that died during my visit. I've already taxed your lane without even trying. ** For other situations it's generally me just shoving a wave to soak XP rather than gold and I will ask the laner if it's K to do so. Team mate dies, enemy goes B and I shove the wave. Enemy dies, team mate goes B and I shove the wave. Both laners B I shove. I hold lane ect.

In many cases the team mate either owes me a little tax or wouldn't of been there to get it in the first place.

Now onto how it works both ways. Buffs. One of the most irritating things a jungler can experience is a self righteous laner who thinks that Blue or Red is their bloody birthright. Just as the minions in your lane are YOURS. The buffs and these camps are MINE. If you're fed, struggling but playing well/not tilted or are a champion who would benefit greatly (Champs charging item 3070 ) I will likely offer it to you if I myself don't need it. If individuals ask for it. Not demanding or strolling over while I'm doing it expecting to get it. I will oblige as to encourage good behaviour and reward those who respect that it isn't "theirs".

However if you're fed but cocky (likely to throw your lead), behind and tilted or a vulnerable laner (having a buff in lane makes you a more valuable target) I will deny you the buff as it will likely time out rather than be transferred to the enemy. But those who ping "on my way" without asking/being offered, say "grabbing red" or simply try to take the camp by force will be met with the almighty summoner 11 . By giving my buff away I am losing XP, gold and stats that would help me clear and gank. The only thing many think about blue is "MANA!!!!!!!!".

These buffs are for the jungler to give, not for a laner to take. Just as minions are a laners to give, not the jungler to just stroll by and take.

It works both ways and I dare say it happens far more with buffs than it does with minions (but that's likely because I'm the guy always jungling ;) )

JerzeyDevilApr 26, 20171 votes

{quoted}

As a tank jungle main this is my rule of thumb: For ganks: Was it successful? Yes. (burnt their sums without team mate burning sums) No kill. Tax 3 minions Yes. (a Kill was secured regardless of sums by ME!). No tax, if the lane is already shoving towards enemy tower I will use AOE to speed up the push without taxing. Yes. (a kill was secured regardless of sums by my team mates) I will tax 3 minions or a cannon. I will then proceed as above in regards to shoving. Yes. (a countergank or save. I didn't get you any money however I deprived the enemy of money and possibly wasted their sums by keeping you alive). I will shove the wave and tell you to B. If you're low enough to need saving you shouldn't be in lane. And this way the XP and gold doesn't go to waste by dying to tower. If they tell me to leave I will leave. Simple. Their lane their rules. But this goes both ways but more on that later

No (no sums were burnt, no kill). No tax. **Because I've already soaked some XP from the minions that died during my visit. I've already taxed your lane without even trying. ** For other situations it's generally me just shoving a wave to soak XP rather than gold and I will ask the laner if it's K to do so. Team mate dies, enemy goes B and I shove the wave. Enemy dies, team mate goes B and I shove the wave. Both laners B I shove. I hold lane ect.

In many cases the team mate either owes me a little tax or wouldn't of been there to get it in the first place.

Now onto how it works both ways. Buffs. One of the most irritating things a jungler can experience is a self righteous laner who thinks that Blue or Red is their bloody birthright. Just as the minions in your lane are YOURS. The buffs and these camps are MINE. If you're fed, struggling but playing well/not tilted or are a champion who would benefit greatly (Champs charging ) I will likely offer it to you if I myself don't need it. If individuals ask for it. Not demanding or strolling over while I'm doing it expecting to get it. I will oblige as to encourage good behaviour and reward those who respect that it isn't "theirs".

However if you're fed but cocky (likely to throw your lead), behind and tilted or a vulnerable laner (having a buff in lane makes you a more valuable target) I will deny you the buff as it will likely time out rather than be transferred to the enemy. But those who ping "on my way" without asking/being offered, say "grabbing red" or simply try to take the camp by force will be met with the almighty . By giving my buff away I am losing XP, gold and stats that would help me clear and gank. The only thing many think about blue is "MANA!!!!!!!!".

These buffs are for the jungler to give, not for a laner to take. Just as minions are a laners to give, not the jungler to just stroll by and take.

It works both ways and I dare say it happens far more with buffs than it does with minions (but that's likely because I'm the guy always jungling ;) )

That was beautiful man..... Well written, fair, to the point. Reason why everyone should play every position until you oat least learn the basics. Once you know what it's like to play Jungle, you'll understand better what you and the jungle need to do and not do to be successful! Help your Jungle/Support help YOU. Give good leashes, pay mind to your supports mana/health/playstyle, dont steal buffs, and remember it's better to go 0/20/10 and WIN than it is to go 30/10/8 and Lose and stealing from your team is a good way for that to happen

PiVoRxApr 26, 20171 votes

I never understrood this, In D5, most of the time, my laners want me to push the lane asap so they can recall, or take control over wave.

HyperiönApr 26, 20171 votes

That is how it is supposed to be. People down in this elo don't understand basic thing like that.

MissingKayoApr 26, 20171 votes

lul when people who are completely ignorant talk about others not understanding and talk about ranks while being hard stuck Silver as if they're any better

HyperiönApr 26, 20171 votes

But I do know.

Do you ever take the time to actually watch videos and read articles on this stuff?

You even said it below. The goal of the jungler is to put the enemy laners behind. AKA, ganking Top, forcing him back, shove the wave so he misses out on creeps/exp. Whether your Top laner is there or not.

The only time you don't shove wave out is if your top laner is about to get into lane. Otherwise, letting it sit in the middle of the wave is bad.

MissingKayoApr 26, 20171 votes

Okay, so you didn't say the last part which I agree with.

If they are there in lane, then they can either A, do it themselves, or B, not do it if they're against a dangerous matchup that they'd rather not have a pushed in wave against and freeze properly instead.

HyperiönApr 26, 20171 votes

If you just killed their top laner, and your top laner is not yet at his turret, you push, whether he pings you to hell or not.

If he is approaching, then don't bother doing anything.

If you're against a dangerous matchup, you want to make them as weak as possible, so if they aren't there, push the living hell out of it, back off. and then let him push it back to you. freeze it until you get another gank.

It really isn't that hard. People don't take advantage of free stuff when they should because they are too hesitant or don't know what to do.

MissingKayoApr 26, 20171 votes

You realize by pushing the wave, it means subsequent waves will also be pushed up? And any competent laner will simply freeze it once they get back?

Which means if they are a dangerous matchup for their enemy, said laner can force said enemy to either miss CS or have to be pushed up to get it?

BigBellBruteApr 26, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You realize by pushing the wave, it means subsequent waves will also be pushed up? And any competent laner will simply freeze it once they get back?

Which means if they are a dangerous matchup for their enemy, said laner can force said enemy to either miss CS or have to be pushed up to get it?

Freezing these days against anyone good will earn you the prize of a nice 4-5 man party in the lane from the other team.

HyperiönApr 27, 20171 votes

No not true. The entire point of forcing the wave under the turret after you just killed the top laner is for him to lose out on the xp and gold. Say you have 2 minion waves stacked up on your side.

You kill him, shove the wave in and back. The only time a top laner will get back to lane in time to freeze that is if they use TP, or someone like riven who spams Q.

Once the minions die to turret, it bounces to the middle of the wave, and they have the bigger wave, so then you are the one who can freeze.