The recent changes to Solo lane/duo lane xp share was really extreme. In so many games I'll see that my top laner is maybe 3-4 levels ahead of me, it seems really, really problematic.
Maybe it could be lowered down so that the level gap was maybe 2-3 levels apart?
BlackXIV13 votesAgreed, honest to god I don't get why in a 5v5 game the 2 roles that already got the most exp needed a double buff with the other three roles getting nerfed at the same time.
Sure as hell if they needed more impact (and that's arguable) giving them a bigger power gap on the rest is not working out, at the very least not in terms of game enjoyment for the majority of players.
WoonStruck10 votesIt would have been alright jungle-wise if they hadn't added dragon souls and made the first few dragons so insanely weak.
That just opens up the game to an early jungle/counterjungle meta, rather than actually allowing farming junglers to flourish.
It definitely needs more tuning so ALL types of junglers are supported.
Solo lane buffs need to be reverted. They weren't needed and don't accomplish anything.
Crescent Dusk1 votesAgreed, honest to god I don't get why in a 5v5 game the 2 roles that already got the most exp needed a double buff with the other three roles getting nerfed at the same time.
Sure as hell if they needed more impact (and that's arguable) giving them a bigger power gap on the rest is not working out, at the very least not in terms of game enjoyment for the majority of players.
Problem is all it did was turn a game into a fiesta of win top lane, go bully the enemy jungler out of camps or kill him, have your jungler who's ahead take dragons because they still matter way more than herald.
It's virtually a game of bully and get fed off the losing jungle. Virtually anyone knows they can go invade the jungle and stand a good chance of killing the jungler or massively setting him behind in levels since jungle is now the lane furthest behind all other lanes in both items and levels.
LordGeovanni1 votesProblem is all it did was turn a game into a fiesta of win top lane, go bully the enemy jungler out of camps or kill him,
if you havent been doing this for the past 3 years you've been playing top lane wrong. if the enemy jungler showed up in bot jungle you could go steal red blue wolves or raptors krugs and gromp wasnt worth it in my eyes too long
Crescent Dusk1 votesif you havent been doing this for the past 3 years you've been playing top lane wrong. if the enemy jungler showed up in bot jungle you could go steal red blue wolves or raptors krugs and gromp wasnt worth it in my eyes too long
The difference is previously the jungler could contest you; you could actually die trying to take camps in top lane. Now jungle can't touch top or mid lane at all.
All the cries by bot lane about getting camped by jungler only get worse because bot lane is the only lane you can gank without a massive level deficit past lv5. Sure, now bot lane matches my jungler level so they too can invade, but at least I can threaten a 1 for 1.
That's just not happening with mid or top lane anymore.
LordGeovanni1 votesI fail to see how a jungler in the bottom lane or bottom jungle is contesting a top jungle camp as to try to take a jungle camp and not know where the jungler is is exccedingly stupid even if you 5 levels ahead they can still find a way to kill you as jungle camps dont do little amounts of damage early and top laners dont have the built in sustain to jungle freely. If the jungler is top jungle you arent the one starting the jungle camp the jungler is and you are waiting for the camp to get him low so you can jump out and scream supprise MOFO. (the same thing the jungler is doing to you on the first example) hence why my first comment said 'if the enemy jungler showed up in bot jungle'
Crescent Dusk1 votesI fail to see how a jungler in the bottom lane or bottom jungle is contesting a top jungle camp as to try to take a jungle camp and not know where the jungler is is exccedingly stupid even if you 5 levels ahead they can still find a way to kill you as jungle camps dont do little amounts of damage early and top laners dont have the built in sustain to jungle freely. If the jungler is top jungle you arent the one starting the jungle camp the jungler is and you are waiting for the camp to get him low so you can jump out and scream supprise MOFO. (the same thing the jungler is doing to you on the first example) hence why my first comment said 'if the enemy jungler showed up in bot jungle'
lol you clearly haven't played against Renekton or Riven top lane if you think jungle camps by lv6+ are remotely threatening to them. A half decent renekton 2-3 levels you can even kill you at half health and so can Riven or Jax.
LordGeovanni1 votesyeah half decent anyone invading you will let the jungle camp do 70% of the work then come out of the unwarded brush because you werent expecting to be invaded in your jungle
LordGeovanni1 votesyou dont understand why the least impactful role and the 2nd most impactful role needed a buff ? (idk about that second one either) while the the 1st and 3rd got nerfs (and the other role that always eats shit because of adcs got nerfed too. I understand why this one happened even if i dont agree with it.)
BlackXIV1 votesYour implied role impact ranking is just wrong.
ŚtrongMental2 votesor maybe 1-2
Krys Star2 votesMeddler isn't a very bright man. He's the kind of person that likes to throw darts at a board and see which sticks.
WTBeGirl100EUhr1 votesYou know that you're asking for the XP changes not just to be reverted, but for the opposite of before to occur? The XP changes amount to 1 caster minion of extra XP for solo lanes every 5 waves and 1 less every 10 waves for duo laners. I don't think 3 caster minions every 10 waves - remembering that caster minions are worth half of a melee minion in XP are really making as much difference as you say. It takes well over an hour of in-game time for the XP gap to amount to a whole level.
ClaireRedfield1 votesOk Mr. Math Magician you seem to forget that you're not in lane for 100% of the game and as botside you're going to need to lose minions(XP) to go assist with dragon and crab. Being in a duo lane always gave less xp but now it's EVEN LESS WHILE STILL BEING SPLIT IN HALF big oof. Top doesn't have this problem and gets bonus xp this season. As for junglers I'm sure I speak for all of them they'd be more than happy if they could get a caster minion here or there of xp ffs they get zero.
WTBeGirl100EUhr1 votesIf you're not in lane it takes even longer for the XP changes to matter. If dragon fights are what's causing the XP change then maybe the issue is with the dragon changes and not the XP changes?
BBKong2 votesIf you're not in lane it takes even longer for the XP changes to matter.
?????????
Having less exp per wave means you'll get less exp overall if you missed the same amount of time in lane as before the changes. This makes absolutely no sense.
WTBeGirl100EUhr1 votesIf you aren't in lane you're actually missing less XP for all the time you're not in lane. For the duration that you aren't in lane you're getting the exact same amount of XP as you would have before the changes.
BBKong3 votesIf you aren't in lane you're actually missing less XP for all the time you're not in lane. For the duration that you aren't in lane you're getting the exact same amount of XP as you would have before the changes.
You're thinking that there's more "lost" exp before, which is true. That does NOT mean that you're gaining the same amount of exp.
A larger NUMBER of exp was thrown into the aether previously when lost, but you got more exp overall. Now, a smaller NUMBER of exp is thrown into the aether, but you get less overall, so compared to the solo laners who get more in both scenarios, you're further behind.
I had an analogy for this but it's a bit outlandish so I won't even say it.
WTBeGirl100EUhr1 votesIf I am in dragon pit spamming emotes I am gaining 0 XP both before and after the change. You're gaining the same amount of XP.
BBKong2 votesIf I am in dragon pit spamming emotes I am gaining 0 XP both before and after the change. You're gaining the same amount of XP.
Guess you're trolling or just don't understand the argument. My bad for falling for it.
WTBeGirl100EUhr1 votesWhat is it that you're even trying to explain? That the top laner is gaining more XP whilst you're in dragon pit jerking off than before the patch? Unless you're spending an absurd amount of time jerking it they won't get even a minion worth of XP.
ClaireRedfield2 votesBasically what BBKong said but here's a hypothetical example.
Let's say pre-xpnerfs bot lane got 10xp per 30 seconds on average. Bot lane needs to spend 2 minutes out of a 10 minute time frame helping with dragon/crab control. During those two minutes they receive zero xp. So 10-2=8 -> 8 minutes x2=16(16 instances of xp gain) 16x10(xp)=160. so 160 total xp. out of a potential 200 for being in lane 100% of the time.
Now with xp nerfs so lets say 8xp per 30 seconds. 10-2=8 -> 8 minutes x2=16(16 instances of xp gain) 16x8(xp)=128 out of a potential 160 for being in lane 100% of the time.
Now take top lane and apply the same except they usually got lets call it 12xp for being solo but they don't generally need to be around bot side and can stay on their top island farming 100% of the time. 10(minutes)x2=20(xp ticks) 20x12(xp)=240. Now with xp buffs call it 14xp top is looks like 10x2=20 20x14=280
So while bot is losing 32xp on average top is now gaining 40xp from no where.
As I hope you can see now that with everything being the same you now lose WAYYY MORE than just that caster minion or two and this is compounded the more you play around your team and stay away from xp.
WTBeGirl100EUhr1 votesThe numbers do matter here, unfortunately in terms of relative value.
Let's say top laners get 100 XP per wave before the changes, and bot laners get 60 XP per wave. Now top laners get 102 XP per wave and bot laners get 59 XP per wave. This is roughly equivalent to the amount XP was changed by.
The issue I take with the OP, and with the comments thereafter, is that they are acting as if the very small amount of XP change is suddenly creating monstrous gaps between top and bottom lane that didn't exist before.
If bot lane is spending 2 minutes out of lane the extra XP that the top laner gets relative to the old patch is not even equivalent to a single minion. Not. One. Minion. Because you're not gaining XP, the relative gap is smaller since your XP isn't actually nerfed (WHILE YOU ARE OUT OF LANE GAINING 0 XP) but the top laner's is still buffed, like it would have been if you were in lane.
Cairo King1 votesThe extra xp can be that 30 xp advantage that makes one level above the opponent, which causes you to win the fight and come out with 1 hp, then you get to farm one more camp, and so on. It has a snowball effect.
WTBeGirl100EUhr1 votesThis post is to serve to illustrate the numbers of the XP changes. Make of them what you will.
Put another way, every five waves adds up to an extra caster minion for solo laners and one fewer for bot.
Straight from the patch notes. Note that the "one fewer" refers to between the two of them so it's a little over half of what 1 caster minion is worth unshared.
1 caster is worth half of a melee or 1 third of a cannon so you can regard them as being worth 1 xp, 2 xp and 3 xp. Even if we take the shared XP as half (which it is is more than), every 2.5 minutes you're losing 0.5 XP bot and top is gaining 1 XP for 1.5 caster minion of difference, or 3 every 5 minutes (every 10 waves).
5 minutes in: 3 casters 10 minutes in: 3 casters and 1-and-a-half melee 15 minutes in: 3 casters and 3 melees (1 non-cannon wave) 20 minutes in: 1 cannon wave 25 minutes in: 1 cannon wave and 3 casters 30 minutes in: 1 cannon wave, 3 casters and 1-and-a-half melee 35 minutes in: 1 cannon wave, 1 non-cannon wave
1 cannon wave for a solo lane is usually worth some half of a level, less later on.
pIlIThomas3 votesThis post is to serve to illustrate the numbers of the XP changes. Make of them what you will.
Straight from the patch notes. Note that the "one fewer" refers to between the two of them so it's a little over half of what 1 caster minion is worth unshared.
1 caster is worth half of a melee or 1 third of a cannon so you can regard them as being worth 1 xp, 2 xp and 3 xp. Even if we take the shared XP as half (which it is is more than), every 2.5 minutes you're losing 0.5 XP bot and top is gaining 1 XP for 1.5 caster minion of difference, or 3 every 5 minutes (every 10 waves).
5 minutes in: 3 casters 10 minutes in: 3 casters and 1-and-a-half melee 15 minutes in: 3 casters and 3 melees (1 non-cannon wave) 20 minutes in: 1 cannon wave 25 minutes in: 1 cannon wave and 3 casters 30 minutes in: 1 cannon wave, 3 casters and 1-and-a-half melee 35 minutes in: 1 cannon wave, 1 non-cannon wave
1 cannon wave for a solo lane is usually worth some half of a level, less later on.
Why don't you go and playtest this with a friend. Because I HAVE tested it. Using Shyvana, I powerfarm, efficient pathing, with a leash, full clear plus clearing one scuttle and backing. then clearing camps as fast as I can. Midlane only backs once, on a non cannon wave (does not have TP). Midlane hits level6 when im level 4 (halfway to 5), midlane is nearly level 9 ( 8.7 ) when I finally hit 6. The disparity in power, if I do not leech a lane, is actually insane. The jungle cannot exist like this, without a terrible meta forming. The jungler is too under-leveled to impact the game (becomes too hard to "carry" and hence becomes undesirable role). But as it stands, its Midlane > all other roles, by a long shot. This season, ranked is going to be a shit-show of dodging because 4 of 5 players are queuing mid.
WTBeGirl100EUhr1 votesMy post literally doesn't mention the jungle. Jungle XP is nerfed by more than duo lane XP is. The post is what the XP literally is relative to the previous patch in term of duo lanes vs. solo lanes.
BlackXIV1 votesDoesn't look like peanuts to me, it's quite substantial.
Also you have to consider solo lanes received an opposite buff making the gap double of what you describe and jungle is in an even worse state.
Honestly do not understand how people can defend the exp changes, they are utter trash.
WTBeGirl100EUhr1 votesI don't defend or otherwise in that post. I post what the numbers are so that people can make their own decisions from a slightly more informed viewpoint than "omg the top laners have more XP than me".
The post I made includes the buff that the solo lanes got. It's not "double" what I describe. It also wouldn't be double... just not how the XP maths works.
The reason, however, people defend the XP changes, is that the majority of the top laners felt like their lane didn't matter. They felt like bottom lane was the majority of the game and that they couldn't become strong enough in top lane to actually translate their lead into a win if their bot lane lost.
Literal IRL Tree1 votesExplain how much exp was changed because i feel like you don't it was 2% in solo and -2% in duo lanes.
Waka FIocka1 votesdon't forget that botlane is underleveled and right by drake, soooo you can expect to get ganked by enemy mid (3-4 lv ahead if you are slightly behind in lane), the exp starved jungler, their adc, and of course the supp every time that drake hourglass appears on the map. dying and walking back to lane after getting 100-0 in .2 sec under your own turret to a Zed means less exp too !
BÖNUS DMG 2NÖÖBS1 votes[{quoted}](name=Waka FIocka,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5l2EXlXH,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-12-08T00:51:46.864+0000)
don't forget that botlane is underleveled and right by drake, soooo you can expect to get ganked by enemy mid (3-4 lv ahead if you are slightly behind in lane), the exp starved jungler, their adc, and of course the supp every time that drake hourglass appears on the map. dying and walking back to lane after getting 100-0 in .2 sec under your own turret to a Zed means less exp too !
Fun and interactive gameplay. Apparently, every role exists, just so midlane can have fun stepping on ants.
LordGeovanni1 votesyour 'problem' can only really happen if the top laner is getting kills on enemies and you are backing or dieing and missing minions
Skia Asteri1 votesThe recent changes to Solo lane/duo lane xp share was really extreme. In so many games I'll see that my top laner is maybe 3-4 levels ahead of me, it seems really, really problematic.
Maybe it could be lowered down so that the level gap was maybe 2-3 levels apart?
You also have a good number of recent games where you are only down 1 or 2 levels to the solo laners while you are playing support
Sure there are some where you are way below, but those are clearly cases where there would have been a big gap even without the XP changes. Like the one you are level 8 
and the enemy top 
is level 14, a 6 level gap. However, it is worth noting that in that game your top 
and the enemy 
support are both level 12. Because how the game plays out is has far more impact on the level gap than the XP change does.
As a counter point, in a recent game where you were top lane 
, the support on your team was the same level as you (12). Because your bot lane in that game basically won the game on their own.
Further more, scrolling back through my own match history to my ranked games from last season, the level differences in you games are pretty consistent with those games from last season. Therefore I am quite confident that if we had good stats for examine average level / xp gain we would find there is not much difference overall. Just that at some points of time in the game solo laners will have one more level than they would have and duo laners will have one less. But the amount time the difference exists will usually not last long (usually levels will be equal to what they would have been in season 9 within 1 minion wave of XP and will often be caught up just from the current wave if there are any minions left in it), and do not always (or even most of the time) overlap.
