It sucks all of these junglers right now just get a free pass to camp any lane they want (Preferably botlane) due to the fact that they have bs clear speeds like udyr shyvana or even xin zhao its really unfair to lose to this bs before the downside to camping a lane was the fact you fell behind but NOPE
Me Is Gaggy1 votesIt doesn't always come down to fast jungle clears. Look at when Twitch jungle was played a lot. He didn't have a very fast initial clear, but would gank mid or top at level 2 and most of the time, get first blood. Yes it depends on the champion, but it also depends on the player. If you have someone playing your generic jungler that understands their strengths and weaknesses, they will more times than not come out on top.
There are some champs that have ridiculous clear speeds and come out on top due to the pressure that they've created. For example, when I play Warwick I'll do a full clear then back and solo drake at level 4. Because I understand his power I can get objectives faster than other champs that need to back before they even clear their entire jungle.
Other champs like Elise. She can do half a clear, get to level 3 and gank a lane, back and go back into her jungle to finish her clear and head off to gank some lanes.
TL;DR it depends on both champion and player, not just champion. Understand the power and game and they will win more than they will lose.
Azadethe1 votesTo what really sucks is that 
's marks are not random, and while the other jungler has to do their traditional clear, Kindred can both get around map faster, and set up 4 stacks in the first 6 minutes of the game..... simply by knowing which scuttle, or wraiths is going to spawn next (If all those camps are dead, the first one to respawn will respawn premarked).
I had this happen yesterday when I was playing 
. Kindred knew level 2 exactly which scuttle was going to mark, so he was there when it spawned. Shortly after, i killed my wraiths and within 10 seconds, the OTHER scuttle got marked. By the time I got there, Kindred already had it. And then by the time I rotated back to wraiths: Viola! about 5 sec after they spawned, I caught Kindred already killing the camp with a clean mark already on it, and 90% of it dead. There was no counterplay at all to this, unless you somehow have a faster jungler than Kindred, which is pretty hard since she's a wall jumper, % damage, etc.
I was literally hunting her stacks, and beelined for every spawn. Never got a single one until they began getting back to my Krugs. By then ofc, my team began feeding Kindred.
That's annoying.
