Please Don't Do This to Karma

Frosted Tips··10 votes·5,126 views

I will start by saying please don't destroy Karma. These changes that I am seeing will force her to be a support. This is because her new style is going to be what Riot focuses on because that is just what they do. So when she synergizes too well with her new W and RW in bot lane she will get nerfed around her other abilities until she is only playable when duoing bot with those 2-4 champions that abused her new W and RW. I will begin with discussing what the proposed changes are and then offer some suggestions of my own.

Passive - Gathering Fire Kindled Spirit - When Karma deals damage to an enemy champ or large monster, Mantra’s cooldown is reduced by X seconds (to a cap of Y times over Z seconds).

Souls Alight - Karma can see her allies’ total basic ability cooldowns.

Obviously Kindled Spirit is completely fine, but Souls Alight will clutter the screen and will be way too overwhelming to look at on the screen.

Q - Inner Flame Functionally, the same as live

All good here.

W - Spirit Bond Ally Cast: Karma reduces target ally’s basic ability cooldowns by up to X seconds. Mantra - Harmony: The cooldown reduction amount is increased by Y seconds. Karma restores Z% of the ally’s max mana.

Enemy Cast: Karma deals X damage to target enemy. If they don’t break the tether, they are dealt X damage and rooted for T seconds. Mantra - Renewal: Roots for longer. When this deals damage, Karma heals for Y% missing HP + Z% AP.

Ally Cast: Just why do they think that this will not get abused by like 2-4 champions. Like this is going to break some champions that are super gated by early cooldowns and mana costs. Now they will not have those issues and will be able to abuse the crap out of their kit way earlier in the game.

Enemy Cast: All good here.

E - Inspire Grants an ally movespeed and a shield. Mantra - Defiance: Grants the target bonus shields. Other nearby allies split X% of the shield and movespeed between them.

All I have to say for this one is why give the AoE movespeed instead of the shield bomb. The AoE movespeed and AoE shield can be accomplished buy purchasing two items while the shield bomb can not.

R - Mantra Functionally, the same as live

All good here.

For Soulflare (Mantra-Q), we’re loading more of the damage into the initial hit of the projectile, and less into the detonation damage - using Soulflare to poke should remain powerful even later into the game.

This one actually confuses me a lot. Like she should need some CC to get all of her damage off, but now she will get most of it off as burst. If she ever sees mid lane after this gets introduced then It will get its damage nerfed and become useless because of this change.

For Renewal (Mantra-W), we’re changing the scaling to scale both with Missing HP and directly with AP - even if you’re building AP instead of tanky, your healing should be substantial.

This is how it should have been all along. This is a good change.

For Defiance (Mantra-E), the shared shield (and movespeed) percentage will be much higher than live, but will be split evenly across all nearby allies - now using Defiance will still be quite effective in a 2v2 or 3v3 scenario.

No, just get rid of the AoE shield because there is already an item for that and give back the Shield bomb.

Now it is what I would like to see.

Passive - You nailed it, but no need for the ability to see ally cooldowns because the mechanic that was used for is gone.

Q - Is the same, but the slow scales healing and shielding items and/or mana per 5 items. Higher possible max slow. RQ - Now if the second part of the Q connects the enemies become marked and Karma or any of her allies that deal damage to the enemy get haste.

W Enemy Cast - Exactly like they said. RW Enemy Cast - Also great change. W Ally Cast - Now gives armor and magic resist. The Armor and Magic resist scale purely with the healing and shielding stat. RW Ally Cast - Adds an addition half of the armor and magic resist and gives both Karma and her ally a 20% damage buff while the tether is attached.

E - Is fine. RE - No AoE shield, but now give allies haste and add a shield bomb.

R - Is all good.

I believe these changes would allow for both Mid lane and Support Karma to exist together in a healthy relationship and that It gives players back what they want. Almost forgot a super important point. GIVE KARMA HER FANS BACK PLEASE. What do you guys think?

18 Comments

Infernape4 votes

Karma MF will be scary. MF would be Q'ing nonstop.

saltran2 votes

MF already can Q nonstop, trust me that it's not that big deal.

But the E max build starting with item 2033 on the other hand could be pretty abusive.

And Karma-Lucian will be URF.

Illabethe2 votes

Not really. By using W on an ally, she hinders how fast Mantra recovers. It might sustain his mana, but the cdr aspect will be wasted, and the fact that it eliminates a huge chunk of Karma's damage to do so is not unsignificant. Also eliminates her ability to root.... which helps Lucian far more than a little CDR recovery and Mana.

Daddy Ants1 votes

{quoted}

Karma MF will be scary. MF would be Q'ing nonstop.

Depends on the tuning.

I think anything higher than 2 second reduction will be completely broken.

Illabethe3 votes

I predict some balance adjustments too, but they don't drop her damage to where she can't solo lane. If anything, She's looking more like a Jungler now, since both her Passive and W are tooled to interaction with Neutral Monsters now. And, that will give her access to boosting all laners with her W rather than an adc who probably doesn't need it (top has the most mana issues)

Also, keep in mind adding a third use to W does something nonbeneficial:

-It takes away Mantra/W without giving stacks of her passive back to reduce the cooldown . -it takes away her ability to self heal, making her a walking target to kill after someone sees Karma. -It takes away half her damage kit.

About your suggestion on W: I'm pretty sure Riot wants CDR/Mana, because they affect the game less than Resist/Armor would...... It's a small utility versus actual stats.

In fact ..... all your suggestions are likely to get her nerfed faster than Riot's Version....

Frosted Tips1 votes

One big point they said was to make each Mantra feel useful in certain situations, but with their ideas Mantra W would only be useful for sitting back and farming. While with mine deciding between a shield for burst and movement speed or a tether for a damage boost and resistance or a bigger amount of burst. The ones I suggested are much easier to balance and offer more versatility. They are more equal in value for each champion than the W they proposed.

Illabethe1 votes

How would theirs be sit back and farm? It still has the same offensive capability as it has now..... Nothing's getting removed. Just more options ADDED.

Frosted Tips1 votes

I'm saying when Karma chooses RW, the one they suggest, she and her ally will gain more by just passively poking rather than fighting. Karma is more of a battlemage support than a enchanter imo, and I would rather them push her to the unique battlemage support and away from the boring enchanter support.

SanKakU3 votes

Another shield bomb thread.... Sion I was prepared to think deeply about your arguments and try to get where you're coming from, and then you typed those magic words that allowed me to ignore the rest of your post.

Frosted Tips1 votes

Then what if you take everything else that I suggested and just keep their version of the new RE? Does that deal better for you.

IMO she needs more damage somewhere in her kit and I see that it could be there, but I mean to each their own.

jocomotion2 votes

I too would rather have shieldbomb over this change (even though the propped change would be healthier than the current Defiance).

In terms of the new ally interaction with W, I slept on it and I can see it being good if ally casting it includes Karma herself, but that comes with a whole new can of worms, which is why I’d like to see some numbers before I put any opinions on it. It would make her the “cooldown mage”, the chanpion with a low cooldown ultimate, low basic abilities, and who essentially gives CDR to others, which I have mixed feelings about.

Finally RQ/Soulflare I have concerns. I agree Karma needs more damage in her kit, but none of it should be on her Q. It’s frustrating for most to play against already, and I believe giving her more upfront burst isn’t the way to go.

The changes to passive, RW, and RE I have no real problems with, I doubt Riot would let the cooldown aspect of her passive clutter the screen, RW finally has good AP scaling, and RE would be more balanced (though I’d prefer shield bomb)

Thank you for actually analyzing the changes rather than just being upset about everything like it seems a lot of people are doing.

ankoanko192 votes

Karma Veigar two event horizons!

Frosted Tips1 votes

Thank you these are the ones that may abuse her. It will not be fun.

Killer of Night91 votes

If she will be played after this, I would expect to see poke champ became overpowered since they are gaited by mana and cd.

Horse Grenades1 votes

Karma and Lucian

Yikes

Killer of Night91 votes

Karma Varus poke op

Hexs Fortune2 votes

[{quoted}](name=ApocaIypse Meow,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5cZbwBHO,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-10-25T10:56:08.165+0000)

Karma and Lucian

Yikes

Lucian found a new waifu

Daddy Ants1 votes

I'm worried about the fact that NeuroCat is reworking her.

Nothing against her, she's good at her job but...

She "reworked" Fizz W and he shot to a 56-57% win rate in all ELO's and needed immediate nerfs.

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