[{quoted}](name=Hagane No Arashi,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5aEsQ4ra,comment-id=000600010000000000000000,timestamp=2015-02-19T18:04:50.141+0000)
the sentence i used wasnt a counter argument
you insult basicaly everyone on this forun and you expect me to be happy about it ?
I'm saying that the people that QQs in these boards doesnt know balance. Its actually how it is. People come here to QQ about imbalances, instead of trying to improve their play. and honestly, you wouldnt see as many QQs, if instead people were just investing their time improving their play, instead of spamming these board with all the salt. I dont expect anyone to be happy with the truth, but i surely didnt expect anyone to take it so badly.
but hey TIL that not happy means you should open up with f-bombs. :^)
"lee sin is a ranged melee tanky dps assassin he excells at everything"- remember that ?
thats his niche (there was a red post aproving that this is his problem)
he indeed is stronger damage wise at early game, but he doesnt fall off
he transitions from a fighter/assasin to fighter/support/playmaker
so in the end you get a champion with good early and quite good late,
yeah i also remember they mention he falls off. For good mesures going from assassin level to support/ playmaker if you land a perfect hard to land combo, is actually falling off. you arent as tanky as other top tier options, they have mobility, they have better engage, the only thing i would give to lee, is that he still has a good neutral objective securing option with his Q, and usually can get good vision around since he will likely get his own sightstone.
there was a time when he did realy fell off, but like any other champion with the passing of nerfs and buffs this weakness got neglected (its still there but its not as much of an issue for him)
those mechanics i meant arent just for the lane, they work in the entire game and every champion uses them
lee has bonus outplay potential on top of it
lee gets play potential from his kit, yes. but there is trade off, like his weaker late game.
in season 3 i played vi a lot
at that time i was facing loads of lee sins
i dont remember now but by looking at their items i was able to check at which level i will outscale them and always killed them in their jungle
now that wouldnt be so much of a possiblity, he will always have a ward to hop to (that was a realy big stealthy buff to lee sin)
i knew how to get every possible fb when facing ww
huh ? i went to the wiki to make sure, but lee has been able to ward jump since like forever, you might be facing better lee sin then you used to? and btw Vi does still outscale lee, but early on, if the lee plays well he can pick you up in your jungle. ward it.
i was a realy competent jungler at the time (now i would like to play mid but thats hard to get)
you call my logic qq'ing
but didnt you notice that all you realy do is saying that anyone who doesnt share your point of wiew qq's because he cant play
i can pown lee sins and i know what they can do, doesnt change the fact that he has a proper answer for whatever you can do and the only reason he dies is because he failed at something (i noticed that when i played him, every time i dropped dead it was because i failed something or forgot to do something, i never had a time when i felt like my champion just cant do something)
What i'm trying to say is that people come here, state that lee need nerfs and is an easy freelo champion. I mean, there is even people trying to argue that Lee Sin scales better then like all the other champions in the game...
If you can "pown" lee players, then why do you think he need nerfs ? I agree, most of the time when lee would die, its because of a mistake he made, but i guess that true for like anyone? (i mean, if you died, you probably made mistake xD) But yeah his mobility helps him to get to safety if he is out position/caught/initiated upon, but so can literally every mobile champion.
at early stages of the game huh?
starting items are realy important, early backing off your lane usualy costs levels meaning you can get killed
there is just too much of a downside to this strat,
if we are talking about in lane lee, yes his early can be rough, but that more learning the lane matchup/having a good draft phase, then on the champion. Specially in the current meta top, most of them have more ranged damage, which mean poking lee out of lane shouldnt be that hard. in any case if you farm up safely early on, and wait for a few items/lvls you will start outscaling him, and he will be irrelevant for the rest of the game, unless he make the insec play (watchout for jungle ganks, because a good one will know that lee needs to get going early or he will be useless, so they might visit you a lot early)
if we are talking about lee jungle, then wards and monitoring where lee is, so he cannot get sucessful ganks can be the end of him, because same reason then my previous paragraph, but on a jungler budget/exp instead of a solo lane (means generally less exp and less money)
its not as much as stats are better than mechanics
but the fact that overloading your champion with mechanics cant be ballanced by giving you lower stats
every champion of the same class needs to have similar statistics to prevent toxic interaction where one cant fight another because he gets oneshotted, but the thing is that some are owerloaded with tools compared to the rest
lee sin is an example of chammpion who is almoust like a pure generalist , and he has the ways of hurting any champion with a real niche
some games and good focus ... wwhy not ?
if you pla for fun and laughts you wont hone your mechanics so fast, but start playing to your fullest and you will see the improvement
i dont think "ward hoping" is the right path to go to move his strengths around. it affects his main play and what he almsot always able to do. And yes, mechanics are harder to balance then raw numbers, but is making a champion easier to play to its fullest really the best option? and tbf, outside of these boards, i dont see anything that tells me Lee need nerfs. Lee require time to be able to use his full potential. But as you pointed out, eventually you might end up picking it up and learn how to play him. and thats where the fun part begins, you are learning to become a better player, and at that point, you might realise then in fact, lee isnt as scary as you though so. And anyway, as i said before, everyone can practice their mechanics, its available to everyone. raw stats doesnt require practice. they are just there when you pick you r champion.
's Safeguard: "Lee Sin dashes to a target ally. If the ally is a champion, they and Lee Sin receive a shield that lasts 2 seconds and Safeguard's cooldown is halved. Lee Sin can activate Safeguard on himself to receive the shield, and can cast Iron Will within 3 seconds."
's Stand Behind Me: "Braum leaps to the aid of the targeted ally, positioning himself between his target and the enemy champion closest to them. On arrival, Braum gains bonus armor and magic resist for 3 seconds. If his target is a champion, they will also receive this buff."
's third Q? While it's not thematic in any form, it's mechanically interesting and fun to cheese with.
